Would you trade Carroll/Wilson for Reid/Mahomes today?

[themunn]

Sorry Admins....But this is really a dumb question.......Mahomes with a $500,000,000 price tag? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

You do realize that Mahomes very likely won’t see the entire half a billion dollars right?

He almost certainly will, unless he suffers a career ending injury or massive drop off.

If anything, it's more likely that he restructures to get paid even more, when, in 3-4 years time, he's no longer the highest paid QB (because Wilson will of course, reclaim his rightful spot as best, and best paid QB in the league).

Technically speaking, Wilson is on a higher Avg per year than Mahomes between now and the end of his contract anyway.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Lol.... Carroll can't win without an elite defense.

Last year's defense was damn near league worst.
Team went 11-5 and won a playoff game.

Seattle had a hard time getting past the Philadelphia Eagles. A team that lost their starting QB early in the game -- the backup QB was over 40 years old and was a career journeyman. Since 2015 the Seahawks have more losses in the playoffs than wins.

We can also talk about how Carroll helped build that near league worst defense. Since 2015 the Seahawks defense has declined in each and every year in just about every metric. One of the biggest culperates was Pete's inability to draft or keep defensive lineman that are worth anything. Or we'd get a big name and have that player just be a poor scheme fit like Sheldon Richardson. Our interior line has also been a huge issue. We've been trying to solve this issue for years now and we remain unable to.

Personally I think Carroll has peaked. I do not think he is capable of winning another championship, and I do not believe he will ever win another again.

Why won't he? He doesn't have the same advantages afforded to him that he had when he first came into the NFL. The first thing we must mention is he had an inside scoop on just about every player he drafted. Most of those guys he picked up in his first few years he had some kind of personal history with. The second thing Carroll took advantage of is his scheme. In the Seahawks scheme, Carroll favored attributes and player types that were considered to be nothing more than role players. We're talking big cornerbacks such as Sherman, Maxwell and Browner. A safety that was considered too slow, too stiff and were seen as a weird safety linebacker hybrid in Kam, and quick, undersized pass rushers such as Brock, Irvin, Clemons, and even Avril.

With the advantage he was afforded of inside information and an unorthodox scheme, Carroll was able to assemble the best defense of the modern era. Unfortunately his success didn't go unnoticed. Other teams saw what Carroll was doing and poached our staff, stole or schemes and went after the types of players that previously nobody touched. In addition tot his he had to pay his Quarterback. I'm not convinced that he could ever replicate that on another team.

Since our SuperBowl runs we've gotten a glimpse of some major flaws in his system and the way he goes about coaching the game. I think that Russell Wilson covers quite a flaws that exist within his system and coaching. I don't think Carroll is a bad coach, in some ways he's very good. I just think that this point in time he is a Marty Schottenheimer figure.

 

[Rat]

Sorry Admins....But this is really a dumb question.......Mahomes with a $500,000,000 price tag? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

There must be a lot of QBs you’d take over Russ then.

 

[pmedic920]

I do not play video game football (Madden) but I did read an article yesterday about it.

It seems this argument is valid.

Russ & Pat are the only 2 QBs with “madden” ratings over 95, with Pat edging out Russ by a slight margin.

:{)

 

[scutterhawk]

Sorry Admins....But this is really a dumb question.......Mahomes with a $500,000,000 price tag? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

There must be a lot of QBs you’d take over Russ then.

Just about everybody in here b*tched & moaned about how much the Seahawks were crippling themselves by paying Wilson......Thank You for making my point. :smilingalien:

 

[John63]

Lol.... Carroll can't win without an elite defense.

Last year's defense was damn near league worst.
Team went 11-5 and won a playoff game.

Seattle had a hard time getting past the Philadelphia Eagles. A team that lost their starting QB early in the game -- the backup QB was over 40 years old and was a career journeyman. Since 2015 the Seahawks have more losses in the playoffs than wins.

We can also talk about how Carroll helped build that near league worst defense. Since 2015 the Seahawks defense has declined in each and every year in just about every metric. One of the biggest culperates was Pete's inability to draft or keep defensive lineman that are worth anything. Or we'd get a big name and have that player just be a poor scheme fit like Sheldon Richardson. Our interior line has also been a huge issue. We've been trying to solve this issue for years now and we remain unable to.

Personally I think Carroll has peaked. I do not think he is capable of winning another championship, and I do not believe he will ever win another again.

Why won't he? He doesn't have the same advantages afforded to him that he had when he first came into the NFL. The first thing we must mention is he had an inside scoop on just about every player he drafted. Most of those guys he picked up in his first few years he had some kind of personal history with. The second thing Carroll took advantage of is his scheme. In the Seahawks scheme, Carroll favored attributes and player types that were considered to be nothing more than role players. We're talking big cornerbacks such as Sherman, Maxwell and Browner. A safety that was considered too slow, too stiff and were seen as a weird safety linebacker hybrid in Kam, and quick, undersized pass rushers such as Brock, Irvin, Clemons, and even Avril.

With the advantage he was afforded of inside information and an unorthodox scheme, Carroll was able to assemble the best defense of the modern era. Unfortunately his success didn't go unnoticed. Other teams saw what Carroll was doing and poached our staff, stole or schemes and went after the types of players that previously nobody touched. In addition tot his he had to pay his Quarterback. I'm not convinced that he could ever replicate that on another team.

Since our SuperBowl runs we've gotten a glimpse of some major flaws in his system and the way he goes about coaching the game. I think that Russell Wilson covers quite a flaws that exist within his system and coaching. I don't think Carroll is a bad coach, in some ways he's very good. I just think that this point in time he is a Marty Schottenheimer figure.

This. Until either PC plays a system on both offense and defense to match his players, or we get a new coach we will be a 2nd round knock out at best and even that only because Wilson is that freaking good. Lots of talk this year even from PC on change sin style and or system we will see. If it same old, same old we are at best 2nd round and done. More likely out of the playoffs. If he changes or modifies his systems to what we have well the skies the limit.

 

[Rat]

Sorry Admins....But this is really a dumb question.......Mahomes with a $500,000,000 price tag? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

There must be a lot of QBs you’d take over Russ then.

Just about everybody in here b*tched & moaned about how much the Seahawks were crippling themselves by paying Wilson......Thank You for making my point. :smilingalien:

That’s a huge exaggeration. The vast majority were very much in favor of his new contract. Some questioned whether you can win a championship with a QB taking up so much of the cap, but there was very little of what you’re claiming “just about everybody” did.

 

[Appyhawk]

Looking at our lineup as it stands right now I have a hard time seeing anything close to "skies the limit" except maybe a bowl game in Montana.

 

[JayhawkMike]

Sorry Admins....But this is really a dumb question.......Mahomes with a $500,000,000 price tag? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

There must be a lot of QBs you’d take over Russ then.

Just about everybody in here b*tched & moaned about how much the Seahawks were crippling themselves by paying Wilson......Thank You for making my point. :smilingalien:

Wilson is absolutely worth the money but more so if they would structure the offense around him.

Now it is "we are going to do it our way that worked when we had Beastmode and a world class defense, a better offensive line and a more mobile version of RW" until the 3rd or 4th quarter when we know it has failed then let RW dig us out of a hole.

It should be "lets score early and often to support a subpar defense and hopefully get a big enough lead to get our subs some experience and starters a rest in the 3rd/4th quarter." Also saves some starters from injury and keeps them rested. Right now they need to be out there every play or we will lose.

 

[scutterhawk]

Sorry Admins....But this is really a dumb question.......Mahomes with a $500,000,000 price tag? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

There must be a lot of QBs you’d take over Russ then.

Just about everybody in here b*tched & moaned about how much the Seahawks were crippling themselves by paying Wilson......Thank You for making my point. :smilingalien:

That’s a huge exaggeration. The vast majority were very much in favor of his new contract. Some questioned whether you can win a championship with a QB taking up so much of the cap, but there was very little of what you’re claiming “just about everybody” did.

"Exaggeration" My Non-petite pettutie, There has been Page After Page After Page, Post After Post After Post of folks RIGHT HERE that were ARGUING OTHERWISE....AND STILL ARE
.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Lol.... Carroll can't win without an elite defense.

Last year's defense was damn near league worst.
Team went 11-5 and won a playoff game.

Seattle had a hard time getting past the Philadelphia Eagles. A team that lost their starting QB early in the game -- the backup QB was over 40 years old and was a career journeyman. Since 2015 the Seahawks have more losses in the playoffs than wins.

We can also talk about how Carroll helped build that near league worst defense. Since 2015 the Seahawks defense has declined in each and every year in just about every metric. One of the biggest culperates was Pete's inability to draft or keep defensive lineman that are worth anything. Or we'd get a big name and have that player just be a poor scheme fit like Sheldon Richardson. Our interior line has also been a huge issue. We've been trying to solve this issue for years now and we remain unable to.

Personally I think Carroll has peaked. I do not think he is capable of winning another championship, and I do not believe he will ever win another again.

Why won't he? He doesn't have the same advantages afforded to him that he had when he first came into the NFL. The first thing we must mention is he had an inside scoop on just about every player he drafted. Most of those guys he picked up in his first few years he had some kind of personal history with. The second thing Carroll took advantage of is his scheme. In the Seahawks scheme, Carroll favored attributes and player types that were considered to be nothing more than role players. We're talking big cornerbacks such as Sherman, Maxwell and Browner. A safety that was considered too slow, too stiff and were seen as a weird safety linebacker hybrid in Kam, and quick, undersized pass rushers such as Brock, Irvin, Clemons, and even Avril.

With the advantage he was afforded of inside information and an unorthodox scheme, Carroll was able to assemble the best defense of the modern era. Unfortunately his success didn't go unnoticed. Other teams saw what Carroll was doing and poached our staff, stole or schemes and went after the types of players that previously nobody touched. In addition tot his he had to pay his Quarterback. I'm not convinced that he could ever replicate that on another team.

Since our SuperBowl runs we've gotten a glimpse of some major flaws in his system and the way he goes about coaching the game. I think that Russell Wilson covers quite a flaws that exist within his system and coaching. I don't think Carroll is a bad coach, in some ways he's very good. I just think that this point in time he is a Marty Schottenheimer figure.

Agreed! Couldn’t have said it better myself!

 

[scutterhawk]

Not buying that...Marshawn Lynch was already playing for the Bills, Hell, Tarvaris Jackson was the QB, so IF Pete Carroll had an inside?, why the hell did he go after $10,000,000 Flynn?, why did Doug Baldwin go UNDRAFTED?, Why did he wait until the 5th round to Draft Richard Sherman (risky move for someone who was supposedly in the know)?, Why did he wait so long to Draft Kam Chancellor? (ALSO a risky wait & see)......No, I don't agree with how he's NOT utilizing Wilsons talents to the max, but him having an inside on players from the get-go?, hell no.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Not buying that...Marshawn Lynch was already playing for the Bills, Hell, Tarvaris Jackson was the QB, so IF Pete Carroll had an inside?, why the hell did he go after $10,000,000 Flynn?, why did Doug Baldwin go UNDRAFTED?, Why did he wait until the 5th round to Draft Richard Sherman (risky move for someone who was supposedly in the know)?, Why did he wait so long to Draft Kam Chancellor? (ALSO a risky wait & see)......No, I don't agree with how he's NOT utilizing Wilsons talents to the max, but him having an inside on players from the get-go?, hell no.

Carroll did have a look that most coaches don't get in the NFL and you cannot deny that. He followed some of these players from the time they were in high school all throughout their collegiate career. He stood in the homes of some of the players he drafted trying to pich USC Trojan football. Pete Carroll scouted some of these players from high school and continued to scout them during game day planning. Carroll also had contacts with many of the collegiate coaches at that time. In fact many of our starters that season that were brought in under Carroll or drafted by him were from PAC-12 schools, or schools that USC played against frequently such as Notre Dame.

If we look at Carroll's defensive scheme corners such as Sherman, Browner, and safeties such as Kam Chancellor were seen as fringe NFL players and in the case of Browner he had been out of the NFL for years. People weren't even sure Chancellor was going to be drafted. People didn't know whether to peg him as a LB prospect or a safety in the NFL. He was seen as a weird tweener.

Seattle loved their big corners, and Carroll started that trend in the NFL. I've also seen safeties in the same vein as Chancellor being employed more on certain teams. Carroll set a trend after Seattle's defensive dominance in 2013 and 14. Carroll had both had knowledge that most coaches in the NFL and a defensive scheme that utilized players arch-types that were considered strictly role players. Unfortunately though what was novel in 2013 is now in vogue.

As far as Wilson goes that was on our GM, Schneider. In fact he wanted Wilson with our first pick. Flynn was seen as competition and as an immediate upgrade over T-Jack who wasn't getting the job done. He was also signed before the NFL draft, not after.

 

[tersal]

This is only a debate among Seahawk fans. Nobody else is even considering Carroll/Wilson over Reid/Mahomes.

As for the Carroll vs Reid part: I really don't care that much. I've had the opinion for a while that Reid is overrated as a head coach (good for him for last season though). Pete would certainly be one of the first names I'd mention after Belichick when listing the best coaches of the past decade, but the current version... MAYBE fringe top-10. I don't want him fired or anything, but I wouldn't be super upset if he decided that this upcoming season was going to be his last. And while Reid is six years younger than Carroll, Reid is not exactly a paragon of health. In my mind, their age difference is only represented by a number. If coordinators are coming along too, I'll take Reid, but the head coach part of this argument isn't enough for me to definitively answer the main question.

As for Russ vs Mahomes… yeah, you take Mahomes. They're both elite in virtually every metric. They're both high-end leaders, they win, they can make all the throws, they're both very improvisational and can make plays on their feet. Even those who feel an obligation to rip Mahomes to prop Russ can't even come up with any criticisms that actually involve his play, it's just the "he's got good players around him", "you can't prove he'd be as good on another team", blah, blah, blah. You'd have to be a special kind of delusional to not see how special he is. He would be spectacular in any system. If people want to debate who is "better" right now, then whatever, but what cannot be debated is that Mahomes is seven years younger, so give me that. Taking the younger guy going forward would in no way diminish what Russ has done for this franchise.

This is by far the best reply on this post very we said put.

Now a better question is which pair is preferable to lead a team for a ten year period Reid/Mahomes or Carroll/Wilson?
However, we have only seen two years of Mahomes as a starter in that time he has shown more than Russ,did his first of course the Chiefs attempt to win with offense while the Seahawks attempt win with defense.

 

[John63]

This is only a debate among Seahawk fans. Nobody else is even considering Carroll/Wilson over Reid/Mahomes.

As for the Carroll vs Reid part: I really don't care that much. I've had the opinion for a while that Reid is overrated as a head coach (good for him for last season though). Pete would certainly be one of the first names I'd mention after Belichick when listing the best coaches of the past decade, but the current version... MAYBE fringe top-10. I don't want him fired or anything, but I wouldn't be super upset if he decided that this upcoming season was going to be his last. And while Reid is six years younger than Carroll, Reid is not exactly a paragon of health. In my mind, their age difference is only represented by a number. If coordinators are coming along too, I'll take Reid, but the head coach part of this argument isn't enough for me to definitively answer the main question.

As for Russ vs Mahomes… yeah, you take Mahomes. They're both elite in virtually every metric. They're both high-end leaders, they win, they can make all the throws, they're both very improvisational and can make plays on their feet. Even those who feel an obligation to rip Mahomes to prop Russ can't even come up with any criticisms that actually involve his play, it's just the "he's got good players around him", "you can't prove he'd be as good on another team", blah, blah, blah. You'd have to be a special kind of delusional to not see how special he is. He would be spectacular in any system. If people want to debate who is "better" right now, then whatever, but what cannot be debated is that Mahomes is seven years younger, so give me that. Taking the younger guy going forward would in no way diminish what Russ has done for this franchise.

This is by far the best reply on this post very we said put.

Now a better question is which pair is preferable to lead a team for a ten year period Reid/Mahomes or Carroll/Wilson?
two years. However, we have only seen two years of Mahomes as a starter in that time he has shown more than Russ,did his first of course the Chiefs attempt to build with offense while the Seahawks attempy to build defense.

One other difference between Wilson and Mahomes is Wilson lost games 0 Mahomes 3. IN 2 years as a starter Mahomes has lost 3 games due to injury. That could be bigger than you think. Especially if he was on our team with our oline and not with his top 3 pass blocking oline anymore.

 

[BullHawk33]

Answer: No


Would you take Brady/Belichick from 10 years ago for Carroll/Wilson today?

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

One other difference between Wilson and Mahomes is Wilson lost games 0 Mahomes 3. IN 2 years as a starter Mahomes has lost 3 games due to injury. That could be bigger than you think. Especially if he was on our team with our oline and not with his top 3 pass blocking oline anymore.

Okay but how many games is Russell Wilson going to miss over Mahomes when he likely RETIRES before Mahomes because he is SEVEN YEARS OLDER? (Hint: there are 16 games in a season).

This would be a really interesting debate if these guys were the same age or if Mahomes were not so ridiculously productive. But they're not and Mahomes is a every bit the surgeon with the pigskin that Wilson is (if not more so). Instead, it's a just a hypothetical where people are either A) choosing the player that would likely be best for the team or B) choosing the player they've become more attached to. Let's be real, guys.

 

[John63]

One other difference between Wilson and Mahomes is Wilson lost games 0 Mahomes 3. IN 2 years as a starter Mahomes has lost 3 games due to injury. That could be bigger than you think. Especially if he was on our team with our oline and not with his top 3 pass blocking oline anymore.

Okay but how many games is Russell Wilson going to miss over Mahomes when he likely RETIRES before Mahomes because he is SEVEN YEARS OLDER? (Hint: there are 16 games in a season).

This would be a really interesting debate if these guys were the same age or if Mahomes were not so ridiculously productive. But they're not and Mahomes is a every bit the surgeon with the pigskin that Wilson is (if not more so). Instead, it's a just a hypothetical where people are either A) choosing the player that would likely be best for the team or B) choosing the player they've become more attached to. Let's be real, guys.

really that is you reply retirement? wow talk about stretching. Actually for me I am choosing the guy best for the team. We have nothing that says Mahomes could produce on our team, with what we have. Wilson can and has. Also remember this trade would be with Mahomes current new salary so even less money to make the team better. He does not have his top 3 oline, top 3 talent. He instead has what is considered a bottom 3 oline and mid tier talent.

So right now till I see Mahomes without all that talent around him I would not trade Wilson for him. Once we see how he handles not having all that talent we will see. Let's remember this is in the same system with the same HC that Made Smith look like an all pro.

 

[knownone]

Pete has become criminally underrated by the Seahawks community.

 

[JayhawkMike]

Pete has become criminally underrated by the Seahawks community.

He has turned into Marty Schottenheimer only with a super bowl win.