Should Russel Wilson take Tom Brady like deal? (Times)

[Spin Doctor]

A recent stat I read goes like this:

"Tom Brady has been in 13 of the last 16 AFC Title Games"

Personally I do not think for one second the Pats would have or could have done that without Brady's approach to his salary and the number of megabucks endorsement and advertising gigs he has gotten because of the teams continued success has more than made up for any NFL salary hits he took to keep help the team competitive.

I think it has much more to do with the three utterly useless franchises in their division. The Dolphins fire their coach and the Jets hire him? Are you kidding me? The Patriots were +111 in scoring differential this year. They were +110 in their division.

Even in a poor division, what the Patriots have accomplished is historical. Since 2001 they have been in the Super Bowl 9 times. That means since 2001 they have been in the Super Bowl over half of the years. That kind of production is insanity even in a weak division.

In that duration Bill Bilicheck has 5 titles, going on six. If he wins one more title he will have won more championships than George Halas, and Vince Lombardi in the salary cap era. He already has more than Jimmy Johnson, Bill Walsh, Don Shula, etc.

What Tom Brady, and Bill Billicheck put together cannot be explained by simply being in a "weak division".

 

[brimsalabim]

Yes as long as the GM will guarantee him adequate protection as the Pats have provided Brady.

 

[WmHBonney]

I think the Patriots' success is a combination of things.
1. Say what you want, but they have been caught cheating twice now. I don't believe for one minute that they have stopped.
2. There is merit to the weak division argument. They are guaranteed a decent shot at not only making the playoffs but also securing at least one home playoff game every year. No way they do what they have done if they were an NFC west team...or NFC north, AFC north.
3. Brady's "team friendly" contracts definitely do play a part. There is simply more $$ to go around to pay other players. However, you also have to credit the fact that the Patriots have a knack for paying the RIGHT players. Rarely do they piss away their money on high priced busts. They seem to be very adept at bringing in castoffs from other teams and getting the most out of those guys.
4. Combine these factors with the facts that Belichick and Brady are far above average at what they do and you have a combination that is very difficult to beat.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/jcaporoso/status/1083217785419902976[/tweet]

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I suspect if he doesn't sign a lower $ contract that people will be angry with him. Meh, he is still very young, get the $ while you can, nobody should fault him for that. After this upcoming contract, sure you can take a little less.

 

[Chapow]

A recent stat I read goes like this:

"Tom Brady has been in 13 of the last 16 AFC Title Games"

Personally I do not think for one second the Pats would have or could have done that without Brady's approach to his salary and the number of megabucks endorsement and advertising gigs he has gotten because of the teams continued success has more than made up for any NFL salary hits he took to keep help the team competitive.

I think it has much more to do with the three utterly useless franchises in their division. The Dolphins fire their coach and the Jets hire him? Are you kidding me? The Patriots were +111 in scoring differential this year. They were +110 in their division.

Even in a poor division, what the Patriots have accomplished is historical. Since 2001 they have been in the Super Bowl 9 times. That means since 2001 they have been in the Super Bowl over half of the years. That kind of production is insanity even in a weak division.

In that duration Bill Bilicheck has 5 titles, going on six. If he wins one more title he will have won more championships than George Halas, and Vince Lombardi in the salary cap era. He already has more than Jimmy Johnson, Bill Walsh, Don Shula, etc.

What Tom Brady, and Bill Billicheck put together cannot be explained by simply being in a "weak division".

It is a reason, as in one of many. Not the only reason. Nor did he say that.

If you don't think being the only good team, and well run franchise, in an otherwise perpetually bad division is a pretty big advantage, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Should he? Yes, if he is committed to building a Super Bowl team in the next 3 years. But I can't blame him if he takes the money. He is a pro bowl/super bowl winning QB after all...#donttakethemoney

I personally think he's in a solid financial position with his wife, similar to Brady and Giselle. Doesn't mean he has to discount, though.

This.


Should he? Of course, 10-15M more per year in savings is 1-2 very good players John can go sign to help win. But WILL Russell? I don't think so, Russell's made very clear from day one here that he has lofty ambitions that go beyond his playing days.

He says he wants to be an owner, etc. All that requires the most net worth possible, and that means max deals while he's playing. I'd be SHOCKED if he took a heavy discount like Brady does.

 

[Seymour]

Should he? No! He plays for Pete Carroll not Bill Belichick. Belichick protects his investment with a solid offensive line year after year that allows his asset (Brady) to perform. Carroll is the complete opposite and steals $$ from the Oline to pay for his defense and splash FA signings (he even did this when Wilson made less than $1M per season!!) Russell is exposed to injury far more than Brady and he'd be an idiot to take $15M less per season. :roll:

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Should he? No! He plays for Pete Carroll not Bill Belichick. Belichick protects his investment with a solid offensive line year after year that allows his asset (Brady) to perform. Carroll is the complete opposite and steals $$ from the Oline to pay for his defense and splash FA signings (he even did this when Wilson made less than $1M per season!!) Russell is exposed to injury far more than Brady and he'd be an idiot to take $15M less per season. :roll:

This failed cap formula was in order to overpay everyone on the defense for 2nd and 3rd contracts.

I'm pretty sure John and Pete know that's not the way to build and sustain the defense they want. Thus paying Britt, giving Brown an extension and I imagine new deals are forthcoming for Sweezy, Fluker and Ifedi. So being the #21 most expensive O-line will rise to top 15 in 2019-2020.

Didn't we have the most expensive O-line when we won the SB? John and Pete know that too, and I betcha we'll get back to spending more on the line, we already are.

 

[Seymour]

Should he? No! He plays for Pete Carroll not Bill Belichick. Belichick protects his investment with a solid offensive line year after year that allows his asset (Brady) to perform. Carroll is the complete opposite and steals $$ from the Oline to pay for his defense and splash FA signings (he even did this when Wilson made less than $1M per season!!) Russell is exposed to injury far more than Brady and he'd be an idiot to take $15M less per season. :roll:

This failed cap formula was in order to overpay everyone on the defense for 2nd and 3rd contracts.

I'm pretty sure John and Pete know that's not the way to build and sustain the defense they want. Thus paying Britt, giving Brown an extension and I imagine new deals are forthcoming for Sweezy, Fluker and Ifedi. So being the #21 most expensive O-line will rise to top 15 in 2019-2020.

Didn't we have the most expensive O-line when we won the SB? John and Pete know that too, and I betcha we'll get back to spending more on the line, we already are.

Yes. in 2013 we had the top paid oline and still were dead last in pass protection rating.

In 2018 we were #21 in Oline spending with better protection which much can be explained by better coaching and 2 FA starters (cheap ones though!!) added. They have been below #20 in spending since 2015 when Russ made $700K base.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Should he? No! He plays for Pete Carroll not Bill Belichick. Belichick protects his investment with a solid offensive line year after year that allows his asset (Brady) to perform. Carroll is the complete opposite and steals $$ from the Oline to pay for his defense and splash FA signings (he even did this when Wilson made less than $1M per season!!) Russell is exposed to injury far more than Brady and he'd be an idiot to take $15M less per season. :roll:

This failed cap formula was in order to overpay everyone on the defense for 2nd and 3rd contracts.

I'm pretty sure John and Pete know that's not the way to build and sustain the defense they want. Thus paying Britt, giving Brown an extension and I imagine new deals are forthcoming for Sweezy, Fluker and Ifedi. So being the #21 most expensive O-line will rise to top 15 in 2019-2020.

Didn't we have the most expensive O-line when we won the SB? John and Pete know that too, and I betcha we'll get back to spending more on the line, we already are.

Yes. in 2013 we had the top paid oline and still were dead last in pass protection rating.

In 2018 we were #21 in Oline spending with better protection which much can be explained by better coaching and 2 FA starters (cheap ones though!!) added. They have been below #20 in spending since 2015 when Russ made $700K base.

The Patriots are #26 in spending this year. They were #18 last year.

Do you think it probably has more to do with Brady and not as much spending on O-line? Russell runs around, get sacked and hit, and our O-line is built to run the ball, pass pro has always been weak.

Conversely Brady gets rid of the ball on average in less then 2 seconds, and doesn't take hits or gets sacked.

I know you and others like to hate on the O-line, and most times it's warranted. But you're comparison to how Belichick spends on O-lines is way off Seymour. It's FAR more about Brady vs Russell's style, then it is spending.

 

[oldhawkfan]

It really boils down to what his motivation is. I could now and for years now taken higher paying jobs but I like where I work, the people I work with and the unique perks that my job provides me. I’m not motivated by money but obviously wouldn’t mind earning more.
Russ has said in the past that he wants to be the best ever. I don’t believe I’ve ever heard him say anything about being the highest paid. Is he motivated by winning, team play, being a leader, etc? I have no doubt that he will get a new contract with the Seahawks. I also believe we will be able to infer quite a bit about what motivates him from the dollar figures. I don’t think they will need to bust the cap but I also don’t think he will accept a bargain basement offer.

 

[Seymour]

Should he? No! He plays for Pete Carroll not Bill Belichick. Belichick protects his investment with a solid offensive line year after year that allows his asset (Brady) to perform. Carroll is the complete opposite and steals $$ from the Oline to pay for his defense and splash FA signings (he even did this when Wilson made less than $1M per season!!) Russell is exposed to injury far more than Brady and he'd be an idiot to take $15M less per season. :roll:

This failed cap formula was in order to overpay everyone on the defense for 2nd and 3rd contracts.

I'm pretty sure John and Pete know that's not the way to build and sustain the defense they want. Thus paying Britt, giving Brown an extension and I imagine new deals are forthcoming for Sweezy, Fluker and Ifedi. So being the #21 most expensive O-line will rise to top 15 in 2019-2020.

Didn't we have the most expensive O-line when we won the SB? John and Pete know that too, and I betcha we'll get back to spending more on the line, we already are.

Yes. in 2013 we had the top paid oline and still were dead last in pass protection rating.

In 2018 we were #21 in Oline spending with better protection which much can be explained by better coaching and 2 FA starters (cheap ones though!!) added. They have been below #20 in spending since 2015 when Russ made $700K base.

The Patriots are #26 in spending this year. They were #18 last year.

Do you think it probably has more to do with Brady and not as much spending on O-line? Russell runs around, get sacked and hit, and our O-line is built to run the ball, pass pro has always been weak.

Conversely Brady gets rid of the ball on average in less then 2 seconds, and doesn't take hits or gets sacked.

I know you and others like to hate on the O-line, and most times it's warranted. But you're comparison to how Belichick spends on O-lines is way off Seymour. It's FAR more about Brady vs Russell's style, then it is spending.

Very little to do with the QB and more to do with Dante Scarnecchia (oline coach) with 33 years experience and their offensive scheme that doesn't insist on run, run, bomb IMO. Don't forget. Russ gets out of more than he gets into with his mobility and he was taught that by the very circumstance I'm talking about here. :141847_bnono:

 

[Seymour]

The numbers are closer than I thought. Patriots average spending #19.7 vs Seattle #22.2 over the last 4 years. So money not as much as superior coaching, players playing for less $$ and quick passing game scheme are obviously more prominent. I stand by "their asset is far better protected" which is the main point though. Putting up with Cable so long combined with our scheme cost us huge here in Seattle for damn sure.

 

[Spin Doctor]

A recent stat I read goes like this:

"Tom Brady has been in 13 of the last 16 AFC Title Games"

Personally I do not think for one second the Pats would have or could have done that without Brady's approach to his salary and the number of megabucks endorsement and advertising gigs he has gotten because of the teams continued success has more than made up for any NFL salary hits he took to keep help the team competitive.

I think it has much more to do with the three utterly useless franchises in their division. The Dolphins fire their coach and the Jets hire him? Are you kidding me? The Patriots were +111 in scoring differential this year. They were +110 in their division.

Even in a poor division, what the Patriots have accomplished is historical. Since 2001 they have been in the Super Bowl 9 times. That means since 2001 they have been in the Super Bowl over half of the years. That kind of production is insanity even in a weak division.

In that duration Bill Bilicheck has 5 titles, going on six. If he wins one more title he will have won more championships than George Halas, and Vince Lombardi in the salary cap era. He already has more than Jimmy Johnson, Bill Walsh, Don Shula, etc.

What Tom Brady, and Bill Billicheck put together cannot be explained by simply being in a "weak division".

It is a reason, as in one of many. Not the only reason. Nor did he say that.

If you don't think being the only good team, and well run franchise, in an otherwise perpetually bad division is a pretty big advantage, I don't know what to tell you.

I'm saying it isn't as big of an advantage as he was making it out to be. You still have to execute, and you still have to do well in the playoffs. The playoffs being the big one, which they do just about every year. Think about our team by contrast which is under .500 in playoffs since 2015.

 

[Spin Doctor]

This failed cap formula was in order to overpay everyone on the defense for 2nd and 3rd contracts.

I'm pretty sure John and Pete know that's not the way to build and sustain the defense they want. Thus paying Britt, giving Brown an extension and I imagine new deals are forthcoming for Sweezy, Fluker and Ifedi. So being the #21 most expensive O-line will rise to top 15 in 2019-2020.

Didn't we have the most expensive O-line when we won the SB? John and Pete know that too, and I betcha we'll get back to spending more on the line, we already are.

Yes. in 2013 we had the top paid oline and still were dead last in pass protection rating.

In 2018 we were #21 in Oline spending with better protection which much can be explained by better coaching and 2 FA starters (cheap ones though!!) added. They have been below #20 in spending since 2015 when Russ made $700K base.

The Patriots are #26 in spending this year. They were #18 last year.

Do you think it probably has more to do with Brady and not as much spending on O-line? Russell runs around, get sacked and hit, and our O-line is built to run the ball, pass pro has always been weak.

Conversely Brady gets rid of the ball on average in less then 2 seconds, and doesn't take hits or gets sacked.

I know you and others like to hate on the O-line, and most times it's warranted. But you're comparison to how Belichick spends on O-lines is way off Seymour. It's FAR more about Brady vs Russell's style, then it is spending.

Very little to do with the QB and more to do with Dante Scarnecchia (oline coach) with 33 years experience and their offensive scheme that doesn't insist on run, run, bomb IMO. Don't forget. Russ gets out of more than he gets into with his mobility and he was taught that by the very circumstance I'm talking about here. :141847_bnono:

It has everything to do with the scheme and QB, and I'm not buying "gets out of more trouble because of his mobility" either. In many cases it encourages him to hold onto the ball longer than he should, and it has been a crutch in his development as a QB. Wilson takes many sacks, and negative plays that he shouldn't because he is trying to make something happen with his legs. It can lead to spectacular plays, but also huge losses and stagnate offense. It is a double edged sword, that play-style, which is encouraged by Pete's stupid offense.

Brady and the Patriots scheme by contrast has always focused on getting the ball out as quick as possible. Lots of outlet routes, and quick hits planned as well as YAC plays. They do a good job of getting their players into space, and running misdirection when the opposing team is playing aggressive. That line is propped up by a good scheme, and a QB that gets the ball out of his hand quickly. It's all a symbiotic relationship.

Now, as I said Wilson was essentially trained to play like he does by our FO, or rather encouraged to do so.

 

[Seanhawk]

I think it has much more to do with the three utterly useless franchises in their division. The Dolphins fire their coach and the Jets hire him? Are you kidding me? The Patriots were +111 in scoring differential this year. They were +110 in their division.

Even in a poor division, what the Patriots have accomplished is historical. Since 2001 they have been in the Super Bowl 9 times. That means since 2001 they have been in the Super Bowl over half of the years. That kind of production is insanity even in a weak division.

In that duration Bill Bilicheck has 5 titles, going on six. If he wins one more title he will have won more championships than George Halas, and Vince Lombardi in the salary cap era. He already has more than Jimmy Johnson, Bill Walsh, Don Shula, etc.

What Tom Brady, and Bill Billicheck put together cannot be explained by simply being in a "weak division".

It is a reason, as in one of many. Not the only reason. Nor did he say that.

If you don't think being the only good team, and well run franchise, in an otherwise perpetually bad division is a pretty big advantage, I don't know what to tell you.

I'm saying it isn't as big of an advantage as he was making it out to be. You still have to execute, and you still have to do well in the playoffs. The playoffs being the big one, which they do just about every year. Think about our team by contrast which is under .500 in playoffs since 2015.

And the road in the playoffs is much more favorable as a division winner as opposed to being a wild card team because you're guaranteed at least one home game. I never said it was the main reason, but it's still a big one. Those three franchises are trash.

 

[erik2690]

Brady clearly takes way less than he could get. No doubt, but he was still a 22 mil cap hit this season and Russ was 23.8 on the back loaded end of his big deal. The cap hit seems the most relevant number in a capped league right? Again even the 22 this season is probably the high end of what he's taken cap hit wise so I'm not trying to say it's a false narrative, but he's 15+ years of earning in and still a 20+ mil cap hit so I think it's fair to say he affords the Pats wiggle room, but he's still been up at 11,12,13% of their cap the majority of the last 10 years. The Pats are likely the anomaly in several ways including QB contract, so hard to expect that.

 

[A-Dog]

Brady can get away with an average O-Line because he's got the refs protecting from every slight touch a pass rusher puts on him. Almost like having an extra lineman.

 

[lobohawk]

A recent stat I read goes like this:

"Tom Brady has been in 13 of the last 16 AFC Title Games"

Personally I do not think for one second the Pats would have or could have done that without Brady's approach to his salary and the number of megabucks endorsement and advertising gigs he has gotten because of the teams continued success has more than made up for any NFL salary hits he took to keep help the team competitive.

I think it has much more to do with the three utterly useless franchises in their division. The Dolphins fire their coach and the Jets hire him? Are you kidding me? The Patriots were +111 in scoring differential this year. They were +110 in their division.

Even in a poor division, what the Patriots have accomplished is historical. Since 2001 they have been in the Super Bowl 9 times. That means since 2001 they have been in the Super Bowl over half of the years. That kind of production is insanity even in a weak division.

In that duration Bill Bilicheck has 5 titles, going on six. If he wins one more title he will have won more championships than George Halas, and Vince Lombardi in the salary cap era. He already has more than Jimmy Johnson, Bill Walsh, Don Shula, etc.

What Tom Brady, and Bill Billicheck put together cannot be explained by simply being in a "weak division".

The issue is that they are essentially guaranteed a spot in the playoffs and likely home field. Take any quality franchise with a top coach / QB combo and their odds of winning are better than anyone else. They get more cracks at it than other teams, so it's more likely they will have more wins. This suits Bill, as he a master at crafting individual game plans and in the playoffs he only has to deal with a couple.

Every other division has had serious competition within each division over the last 20 years. It's inevitable that other teams would fall back, since the bar is higher for them.

They still have to win the games, so kudos for that, but ignoring their 'reserved' playoff spot only helps with the mythology of the Patriots. Imagine if during the most recent Hawks tenure they'd swapped divisions. The Niners, Rams, and even Cardinals have been better than any other team in the AFC East since Pete's been here. The Pats would probably have missed the playoffs once or twice in that time.