Schefter: Seahawks will not place Harvin on IR

[mjwhitay]

Does anyone believe that PC/JS would spend that much on a guy who wasn't a baller?

Heck yes.

These are the same two guys that drafted Irvin in the top 20. Same two guys that drafted a defensive lineman to play offensive line. Same two guys that drafted a 5'10" QB and entrusted him with the starting role as a rookie. I could go on and on, but you get the point. Pete and John are gamblers, that's no secret. It's great that MOST of the time their gambles have worked out.

Too soon to tell on Harvin, but this may be one of those gambles that doesn't work out so well.

My goodness, there is some serious craziness in every Harvin thread. Those are DRAFT PICKS. All draft picks are gambles. This guy is considered one of the best football players on the planet. By his peers. Namely Adrian Peterson. Oh, and our OC worked with him. And every person I've ever heard speak about him, that isn't a bitter fan , says he plays harder than nearly anyone and loves the game of football.

This was not a gamble, unless you think every player is, because everyone can get hurt. This was a move to put one of the most electric playmakers, who happens to be 25 years old, with Russell Wilson and the rest while we have the largest two year championship window any team may have ever had, considering it's average age.

OH, and Pleeeease, someone come back in here and tell me he's injury prone. Please. I will destroy that argument very quickly.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Not ragging on him for not seeing him. lets just be honest, this dude probably isn't injured anymore. sore yes, hurt yes, but do you hear okung talking about his toe isn't 100%.
nobody is 100% in the NFL. nobody.
Aaron Rodgers fighting to go on the field with a broken collarbone and percy still nursing his hangnail. smh

Show me where Percy said he can't play since Minn. Have a quote?

No quote needed. Go back and listen to all the Pete Carroll press conferences when he is asked about Harvin. Same answer every time: Doctors cleared him to play, he's having pain, we're waiting until he's comfortable to play.

Have you listened to ANY of Carroll's press conferences? it's only been the leading topic every week since the Vikes game, and it's been the same answer literally every time.

I gave up on Harvin two weeks after the Vikes. And I think Carroll has as well. The guy doesn't want to play. He got his money, and now he doesn't care.

A few days after the Vikes, Percy was dealing with "soreness", tests came back positive, he was expected back in a week or two tops. It's been how long now?

Harvin is exactly what Viking fans said he was. And he's done exactly nothing to prove otherwise.

That is a flat out lie. The docs never cleared him to play. I've listened to every press conference and Pete never said that. Put up a link or take the weak fabrications somwhere else.

 

[Seeker]

He's not injury prone. but we are talking about a very new percy.

Percy with his money.

 

[The Radish]

Reminds me a bit of that Tackle we had, McIntosh? He is geting better, his shoulder is healing or Tubbs knee.

Just for your archives,,I think it was McIntosh's neck. They had it repaired so he was out a season. The next year he reinjured it in the first game of the year as I recall and they told him he ran a good chance of being paralyzed if he continued playing.

And he had no history of injury prior as I recall. That was one trade that did not work out big time.

:les:

 

[3Girls'HawkDad]

How are his migraines?

 

[Seeker]

His migraines where actually a one year thing that got blown out of proportion. he has been on meds since that year and hasn't ran into any issues.

Harvin's story isn't that he is injury prone (he is not) it's that he likes getting out of practice (as most athletes do). combine this with the fact that he is very paid now and the fact that the NFL is notorious for not wanting to cover medical issues of players and I think you have a case of "I am looking out for my body" which is fine, but this is ridiculous.
We could have traded for dez Bryant.

 

[twelthmanfan]

If you google Ed Reed, you will see he had the same operation in 2010 and missed 7 weeks. Many stories on how he came back from it but said soreness was evident all the time but finally was able to play pain free until this year when it flared up again.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

The only thing we should be really annoyed about is the length of time it took to identify this issue and then have the surgery.

How on earth did we get to training camp before detecting this?

1. Because he got hurt in OTA's.
2. Would it shock you to learn that the team learned before the fans did?

If it happened it OTA's, why was he having surgery before the start of camp?

That's the point.

It's not about when we found out, it's about how this injury developed and festered and wasn't tended to until it was really too late for him to have an impact in year one.

Perhaps there's a legitimate reason for it. I don't know. Nobody really did any digging in the media at the time or was prepared to ask a difficult question.

But the thing that bothers me is he could've have surgery a lot earlier than he did -- so what happened?

 

[3Girls'HawkDad]

Harvin sucks

 

[jamsomatic]

OH, and Pleeeease, someone come back in here and tell me he's injury prone. Please. I will destroy that argument very quickly.

How is he not injury prone lol shoulder surgery ankle and now hip theatrics. Somebody already mentioned uterus strain lol

 

[Happypuppy]

If you google Ed Reed, you will see he had the same operation in 2010 and missed 7 weeks. Many stories on how he came back from it but said soreness was evident all the time but finally was able to play pain free until this year when it flared up again.

There are reports Kam did as well and played through it as well reported by Peter King.

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/ ... h/14147582


He comes across to me as one of those fighters that they have to "hold them back " so he does not get into with another fighter at a preflight photo OP.

We can look at his history however for clues as to behavior. There is frustration with coaches as well as migraines. A history of not liking to practice. All of these are verified by many sources from coaches to players and beat writers.

It could be Harvin has a low pain threshold and does not like to play with any pain at all. We really don't know what is up; but to expect fans like myself to be dubious of him should be expected. It does not make us less of a fan.

Patience only goes so far and what I have seen of Harvin leads me to lean towards soft and headed towards a Prima Donna bust status .

 

[fenderbender123]

Just said on NFL Insiders

Also said the team is holding out hope he will be able to play in the playoffs.

So there's that.

He's like our super secret weapon.....

So secret, so super, he might not even be real. But just maybe... 8)

Is he our Duke Nukem 3?

You mean Duke Nukem forever?

 

[Shock2k]

It is what it is. We've had some real free agent busts. But even how frustrating this year has been. With the possible players we are going to loose, we are going to need a difference maker added to the offense for next year. And Percy healthy is a hell of thing to watch. What I want to know is who the hell operated on this guy and gave him a 4 to 6 week prognosis. And who in New York was handling his "rehab".

That has to be one of the worst medical results at a professional (NFL level) I've ever seen. These guys have access to the absolute best of the best. And that's just "Normal" players.

 

[DavidSeven]

This Vikings fan (and a Neurologist) wrote an incredible piece back in July 2013 about Harvin and how his migraine history may have led him to be permanently hypersensitive to pain and ultimately "high maintenance." He says the Vikings knew this about Harvin but also knew this hypersensitivity wouldn't show up on a trade-clearing physical, and thus, they decided to unload him.

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2013/7/30/ ... y-and-help

Here's the point

For the rest of this essay, I'm going to speculate that Harvin does have central sensitization, and is prone to pain that is more severe and persistent than would be expected otherwise. I think his ankle injury last year and his hip problem this year are affected by migraine-related central sensitization. Understanding this tendency helps explain why the Vikings were willing to trade a 24 year old who was an MVP candidate last year.

[...]

Harvin has had a number of poorly explained symptoms and difficulties which have limited his participation particularly in training camps and practices.

Some of those episodes have led to conflict over his perceived effort level and commitment, not only with Childress but with Frazier, who's known to be a player's coach and a nice guy.

Harvin's hip problem seems to be more similar to his migraines or his ankle (after it healed) than to any more serious or permanent injury. The Seahawks medical staff believe he will not need surgery, but the team is being supportive, putting Harvin on PUP and sending him to NYC for the second opinion today.

[...]

As I said, I don't think Harvin is faking or exaggerating his symptoms, I think they're real to him. But at the same time, this ongoing pattern of hypersensitivity makes him "high maintenance" as far as a team is concerned, always at risk of a flare up of symptoms that will limit his participation in team activities.

Harvin is an amazing talent and a dynamic player, but as a Vikings fan, I'm glad they didn't give him a big contract and commit to building around him for the future.

Read the whole article for a very detailed breakdown of the prognosis. Again, he wrote this BACK IN JULY. He also explains that this can be a lifelong problem for Harvin. If you read through the timeline of events for his ankle injury last year, they basically mirror what's happening now exactly.

I think there's a good possibility that the Vikings executed this trade with full knowledge that this hypersensitivity would not show up on a physical.

We were poison-pilled again.

 

[Shock2k]

This Vikings fan (and a Neurologist) wrote an incredible piece back in July 2013 about Harvin and how his migraine history may have led him to be permanently hypersensitive to pain and ultimately "high maintenance." He says the Vikings knew this about Harvin but also knew this hypersensitivity wouldn't show up on a trade-clearing physical, and thus, they decided to unload him.

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2013/7/30/ ... y-and-help

Here's the point

For the rest of this essay, I'm going to speculate that Harvin does have central sensitization, and is prone to pain that is more severe and persistent than would be expected otherwise. I think his ankle injury last year and his hip problem this year are affected by migraine-related central sensitization. Understanding this tendency helps explain why the Vikings were willing to trade a 24 year old who was an MVP candidate last year.

[...]

Harvin has had a number of poorly explained symptoms and difficulties which have limited his participation particularly in training camps and practices.

Some of those episodes have led to conflict over his perceived effort level and commitment, not only with Childress but with Frazier, who's known to be a player's coach and a nice guy.

Harvin's hip problem seems to be more similar to his migraines or his ankle (after it healed) than to any more serious or permanent injury. The Seahawks medical staff believe he will not need surgery, but the team is being supportive, putting Harvin on PUP and sending him to NYC for the second opinion today.

[...]

As I said, I don't think Harvin is faking or exaggerating his symptoms, I think they're real to him. But at the same time, this ongoing pattern of hypersensitivity makes him "high maintenance" as far as a team is concerned, always at risk of a flare up of symptoms that will limit his participation in team activities.

Harvin is an amazing talent and a dynamic player, but as a Vikings fan, I'm glad they didn't give him a big contract and commit to building around him for the future.

Read the whole article for a very detailed breakdown of the prognosis. Again, he wrote this BACK IN JULY. He also explains that this can be a lifelong problem for Harvin. If you read through the timeline of events for his ankle injury last year, they basically mirror what's happening now exactly.

I think there's a good possibility that the Vikings executed this trade with full knowledge that this hypersensitivity would not show up on a physical.

We were poison-pilled again.

Great article thanks for posting that. here is the link to the field gulls article he references.
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2013-nfl-offs ... in/4305143

 

[oasis]

The fact that Harvin's not posting any twitter updates promising for a playoff return is damning. He was so pumped about returning to the field before his re-injury, but now all is quiet.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Not ragging on him for not seeing him. lets just be honest, this dude probably isn't injured anymore. sore yes, hurt yes, but do you hear okung talking about his toe isn't 100%.
nobody is 100% in the NFL. nobody.
Aaron Rodgers fighting to go on the field with a broken collarbone and percy still nursing his hangnail. smh

Show me where Percy said he can't play since Minn. Have a quote?

No quote needed. Go back and listen to all the Pete Carroll press conferences when he is asked about Harvin. Same answer every time: Doctors cleared him to play, he's having pain, we're waiting until he's comfortable to play.

Have you listened to ANY of Carroll's press conferences? it's only been the leading topic every week since the Vikes game, and it's been the same answer literally every time.

I gave up on Harvin two weeks after the Vikes. And I think Carroll has as well. The guy doesn't want to play. He got his money, and now he doesn't care.

A few days after the Vikes, Percy was dealing with "soreness", tests came back positive, he was expected back in a week or two tops. It's been how long now?

Harvin is exactly what Viking fans said he was. And he's done exactly nothing to prove otherwise.

Uh Pete has never once said Percy was cleared to play.

 

[hawk45]

By coincidence I had just finished reading that article before I saw DavidSevens's post. It was an interesting read. The one thought I kept having, though, was that yes this was one speculative diagnosis that seems to fit the facts. But that the other diagnosis that also fits the facts quite well is that Percy is a selfish primadonna who practices and plays when and how he wants to.

The additional benefit to the primadonna diagnosis is that it lines up with his historical behavior in high school, at UF, and at Minnesota, which show a pattern of an immensely talented guy who knows it, and who feels it puts him above the rest of the mere mortals (and to be fair it pretty much does give him elevated social standing his entire life).

We don't know, and may never know, whether it's some migraine-caused pain syndrome, whether it's him being selfish, or whether it's just a string of amazing coincidences that make him look bad. What I do know after reading the different articles turned up by searching, is that I feel much, much worse about the player. Lengthy injury history in college (supposedly corrected), migraine history in the pros, ankle last year with a circus to go with it, and now the hip which is unfolding a lot like the ankle did, as pointed out by DavidSeven. With character concerns as the cherry on top. I feel ill now.

 

[jamsomatic]

If I may be so bold as to proffer a question for your consideration:

Percy Harvin. Poison Pill? Or Trojan Horse?

Lol lmao!!!!

 

[DavidSeven]

This Vikings fan (and a Neurologist) wrote an incredible piece back in July 2013 about Harvin and how his migraine history may have led him to be permanently hypersensitive to pain and ultimately "high maintenance." He says the Vikings knew this about Harvin but also knew this hypersensitivity wouldn't show up on a trade-clearing physical, and thus, they decided to unload him.

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2013/7/30/ ... y-and-help

Here's the point

For the rest of this essay, I'm going to speculate that Harvin does have central sensitization, and is prone to pain that is more severe and persistent than would be expected otherwise. I think his ankle injury last year and his hip problem this year are affected by migraine-related central sensitization. Understanding this tendency helps explain why the Vikings were willing to trade a 24 year old who was an MVP candidate last year.

[...]

Harvin has had a number of poorly explained symptoms and difficulties which have limited his participation particularly in training camps and practices.

Some of those episodes have led to conflict over his perceived effort level and commitment, not only with Childress but with Frazier, who's known to be a player's coach and a nice guy.

Harvin's hip problem seems to be more similar to his migraines or his ankle (after it healed) than to any more serious or permanent injury. The Seahawks medical staff believe he will not need surgery, but the team is being supportive, putting Harvin on PUP and sending him to NYC for the second opinion today.

[...]

As I said, I don't think Harvin is faking or exaggerating his symptoms, I think they're real to him. But at the same time, this ongoing pattern of hypersensitivity makes him "high maintenance" as far as a team is concerned, always at risk of a flare up of symptoms that will limit his participation in team activities.

Harvin is an amazing talent and a dynamic player, but as a Vikings fan, I'm glad they didn't give him a big contract and commit to building around him for the future.

Read the whole article for a very detailed breakdown of the prognosis. Again, he wrote this BACK IN JULY. He also explains that this can be a lifelong problem for Harvin. If you read through the timeline of events for his ankle injury last year, they basically mirror what's happening now exactly.

I think there's a good possibility that the Vikings executed this trade with full knowledge that this hypersensitivity would not show up on a physical.

We were poison-pilled again.

Great article thanks for posting that. here is the link to the field gulls article he references.
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2013-nfl-offs ... in/4305143

Yeah, but he says that Field Gulls article is missing a key piece of context:

The Field Gulls post is excellent, but it's missing a crucial point of context. Labral tears are a common finding in asymptomatic people, even young people. A study of 45 asymptomatic volunteers (average age: 38, range 18-66) found 69% were found to have a labral tear on MRI of the hip, despite no current or prior history of injury, pain or surgery in that area. In other words, labral tears of the hip are a common incidental finding, the kind of thing that's common enough in normal people, where the body isn't quite perfect but it's still normal. Incidental findings are compatible with normal function, they shouldn't be blamed for symptoms.

This study suggests that the average NFL team who arranged an MRI of the hip for each one of its players checking into training camp (80+ on each roster), even though the majority of them don't have hip pain or other symptoms, would find 50+ players with at least a slight labral tear. The comparison is far from exact, because NFL players are younger and yet have a history of more traumatic exposure and activity with their joints, but the key point is: what's being reported as abnormal in Harvin's hip is statistically quite common, and is that sense normal, even if it isn't perfect.

Labral tears like the one Harvin had are common. The vast majority of people have them to some degree, including non-athletes. This would explain why the Seattle staff was confident he could play through it. The author's hypothesis is that it was (and still is) only an issue for Harvin because he has a hypersensitivity to pain resulting from his migraine history, which may or may not have been disclosed to the Seahawks.