Peter King on Matt Flynn

[Recon_Hawk]

Best case scenario if Flynn is cut is that another team claims him off the waiver wire (including his contract).

In that case, the total dead cap would only be $4 million. ($2m of his guaranteed base salary would be picked up by the other team)

Vesus keeping him for one season which would cost against the cap, $9.25 million for one season of play.

The total savings would be $5.25 million cutting him (if he's claimed).

To replace Flynn's 1 year of play with a mid-round QB would cost draft pick + ~$500,000

Meaning, after taking at replacement QB cost, total saving would be $4.75 million.

If I could guarantee Flynn would be claimed off the waiver wire, I would cut him.

 

[onanygivensunday]

If I could guarantee Flynn would be claimed off the waiver wire, I would cut him.

Imo, that is a foregone conclusion.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

If I could guarantee Flynn would be claimed off the waiver wire, I would cut him.

Imo, that is a foregone conclusion.

Not if you think you can get him much cheaper a few days later.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

If I could guarantee Flynn would be claimed off the waiver wire, I would cut him.

Imo, that is a foregone conclusion.

If a team isn't even willing to give away a 7th rounder, it stands to reason that it's Flynn's contract that is scaring teams away. That and the fact he's still somewhat an unknown.

Teams may like him, but not $5.25 million for one year like him.

 

[GCrow]

I'm all for it, and really don't see what the big deal is. Cut him, sign a cheap vet back on a one, maybe two year deal - hello Josh Johnson - and draft a guy in round 5. Im on the Sean Renfree band wagon as well (not to derail thread) but saw this on rotoworld the other day about him;

Duke QB Sean Renfree continued to generate positive buzz, this time from Chris Mortensen on SportsCenter.

David Cutcliffe believes Renfree could be "the steal of this draft," according to Mort. Cutcliffe was Renfree's college coach, but Peter King and Mel Kiper recently singled out the Blue Devil in prior weeks. We doubt he works out at the Combine due to a torn pectoral muscle suffered in the team's final game.

Keep in mind Cutcliffe the coach at Duke is the guy who Peyton Manning worked with last offseason to get him back into MVP shape.

 

[kearly]

Cutting him now saves $3.25M in 2013. It would also save the $6.25M in 2014 but nobody believes he'll see that so it's not really part of this discussion.

IMO --- $3.25 on a 1 year deal for a quality backup QB is not unreasonable. He'll stay.

Never thought of it that way (keep in 2013 then cut in 2014). Still, I think he's gone. Seattle liked T-Jack, but didn't want to pay him ~$4 million as a backup last year.

 

[kearly]

I think John and Pete have been pretty honest about most things in general. I don't see the Flynn comments as part of lying season, I just don't. Releasing him just because of the cap savings doesn't make sense.

Disagree that we are "FUBAR" if we lose Wilson. Can we go as far as we would w/ him? Clearly not. But I think Flynn would still make us pretty good.

I don't know enough about Scott, so I'll take your word for it. Nobody said you are crazy...the bigger point is you are releasing a veteran with knowledge of our system in exchange for an unproven rookie, all for cap savings at a position that we are not overly paying for. Sorry, not passing the litmus test for me.

You keep Flynn unless you are damn sure you have a ready-to-plug-in replacement in place. Is that a rookie like Scott that's on nobody's radar right now? Seems unlikely.

The context here is important. If this was the 2010 team, it would be much more likely because we were miles away from being competitive. But as we sit here today, we are a legitimate Super Bowl contender.

I do think our GM/Coach have been refreshingly honest for the most part. Still, there is such a thing as talking in code, and in a world where teams that desperately want to trade a guy say he's "off limits" (see Minnesota) to help set negotiations, Schneider has coyly admitted to be open to trade talks. If the same question were asked of Wilson, he'd laugh and probably say "yeah, maybe for 10 first rounders."

In GM speak, Schneider has made it no secret he wants to get rid of Matt Flynn. You can't take their statements at literal face value, obviously. He claims to be in a good cap management position to pay a backup QB $15.5 million over the next two years, just like I am in good position to take this rusty steak knife in my hand and jam it in my eye. I could do it if I really wanted to, I mean I have an eye to spare, right? I could even say there's nothing to stop me from doing it. Doesn't mean I want to.

We could win a Superbowl with Flynn, but I think the odds would probably drop from maybe 20% with Wilson to probably something like 3% with Flynn in that scenario. The odds that Flynn is going to be the next Doug Williams are pretty remote. Especially with the way it would impact the entire offense (WRT the read option). Over a few games, Flynn could really help us, but for the duration of a season or postseason, we'd be FUBAR.

I think Flynn's value comes with his ability to win games in a short span: like going 3-1 out of a 4 game set. I'd say that contribution is worth $1 to $2 million in salary, or maybe a 4th/5th rounder in the draft.

Tom Brady doesn't have a $7+ million backup. Neither does Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, and on and on. What do they have behind them? Draft picks, often ones with no NFL starting experience whatsoever.

 

[Lady Talon]

If I were JS I would restructure Flynn to a friendlier backup contract, and as a hook to keep him here I'd guarantee him some home starts, 2-3 of them.

Our home schedule is easier then our away schedule. Let him start against Arizona and Tennessee or walkovers like that since the D steps up in the Clink and visitors have to deal with the noise. #1 It would double his Pro game experience, if he excels, 60%+ comp. 3-1 TD to Int, teams will be a lot more interested in him in 2014. #2 It might (depending on his performance) increase what they'd pay us to obtain him in 2014, maybe a 2nd or 3rd rounder, teams are ALWAYS desperate and willing to overpay for quality QBs they just haven't seen enough of Flynn to be convinced, and there's the large contract issue.

If he stinks, well at least his contract is smaller and you can throw Wilson back in the game and throw Flynn back on the bench. Good for Flynn, good for us, good for another team.

Could always pull a Belicheck and list Wilson as Questionable with a fake shoulder injury Brady style then name Flynn the starter late in the week, so the opposing teams will be at a disadvantage game planning him, while he works with Bevell to get a game plan going himself.

If it is for the good of the team I don't think it will cause RW any setbacks. From what I've seen he and Flynn are pretty friendly.

 

[SE174]

Well, the Seahawks almost certainly didn't see Wilson as a 'once in a generation' type QB last year otherwise they wouldn't have waited until round three to draft him. It's very easy for any of us to sit here and say Schneider and Carroll forecast Wilson to be the sensation he's been. The reality is probably more that they simply liked him a ton and took him in a round where they believed he was good value with a shot to be an eventual starter.

Credit where credit's due for having the foresight to draft him, and even more credit for turning him into what he became... but Schneider admitted this week that while he liked Wilson, he didn't expect what we saw in 2012. It worked out better than I'm sure anyone expected.

I actually remember listening to an interview with Schneider after the draft where he said he had to be talked out of taking Wilson in the 1st. Said the scouts promised him that Wilson would be available later.

But I do agree with your other points about finding another QB with similar skills to Wilson. I think it's important to have a backup in similar nature to your starter, especially when that starter is athletic and your team runs some read option. And finding a later round guy, who you pay very little, would be perfect. Saves cap.

English, in your opinion, which later round QB fits the Hawks best?

Exactly. Schneider wanted him at all costs, but also knew he wasn't going to be taken before the middle of round 3... he'd been constantly calling up his coach at Wisconsin checking to see who was interested in Wilson and how much. Not to mention that even before the draft analysts were saying he'd be a top 5, top 10 pick if it weren't for his height.

As for later round QBs... I've liked EJ Manuel out of FSU, but his stock is rising fast, he'll probably go in the 2nd now. Matt Scott out of Arizona, and Collin Klein from KSU are both athletic QBs with some intrigue that should be available in the later rounds.

 

[SE174]

As for Flynn, his cost isn't prohibitive this year at all, especially since we won't need extra space until next year. If we can't get good value for him in a trade, I'd be very disappointed if we just released him. Granted we don't know what kind of QB he'd be as a full time starter, we do know that he's a very capable backup that plays smart and can win games. As a team that will contend for a SB this year, I'd be a lot more comfortable knowing that if something happened to Wilson, our chances wouldn't be shot.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

I'd be a lot more comfortable knowing that if something happened to Wilson, our chances wouldn't be shot.

Would they be any more shot if 2012 Kirk Cousins was the backup?

I'd argue, no.

Rookies are expected to start in year one these days, let alone be solid backups.

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

Much of Flynn's 2013 salary is guaranteed, so cutting him doesn't save as much $$ as people think ... and combined with the fact that he's a reliable backup who should be able to win us a game or 2 if needed ... I really think he'll be a Seahawk this season. After this year, his salary goes up and it's a lot less likely we would keep him.

My guess -- they'll redo his deal, cut his salary by a $2M or so, an waive the last year so he'll be a free agency in 2014. Call it the Hill/Trufant plan.

This makes sense.

 

[Hawknballs]

I can't think of any rational reason to simply release Flynn unless we are planning on signing a more than one big name free agents.

Actually that's a lie, I can only think of one good reason and that is because we plan to use some money this offseason to re-sign of of the guys we can with front-loaded salaries so that in 2-3 seasons when we have to start paying lots of guys at once, some are already taken care of and front-loaded.

That is pretty much all i can think of.

 

[Hawkfan77]

If I were JS I would restructure Flynn to a friendlier backup contract, and as a hook to keep him here I'd guarantee him some home starts, 2-3 of them.

Our home schedule is easier then our away schedule. Let him start against Arizona and Tennessee or walkovers like that since the D steps up in the Clink and visitors have to deal with the noise. #1 It would double his Pro game experience, if he excels, 60%+ comp. 3-1 TD to Int, teams will be a lot more interested in him in 2014. #2 It might (depending on his performance) increase what they'd pay us to obtain him in 2014, maybe a 2nd or 3rd rounder, teams are ALWAYS desperate and willing to overpay for quality QBs they just haven't seen enough of Flynn to be convinced, and there's the large contract issue.

If he stinks, well at least his contract is smaller and you can throw Wilson back in the game and throw Flynn back on the bench. Good for Flynn, good for us, good for another team.

Could always pull a Belicheck and list Wilson as Questionable with a fake shoulder injury Brady style then name Flynn the starter late in the week, so the opposing teams will be at a disadvantage game planning him, while he works with Bevell to get a game plan going himself.

If it is for the good of the team I don't think it will cause RW any setbacks. From what I've seen he and Flynn are pretty friendly.

That would pretty much go against everything that Pete Carroll stands for. Plus it would be an extremely unnecessary move.

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

If Alex Smith has proven that he can't get to the SB with the most complete team in the NFL around him why would any other team think Smith can win with them? Flynn has a higher ceiling because he could very well be better than Smith. In other words Flynn hasn't proved that he can't.

Yah, I don't get why Alex Smith is being viewed, if he is, as a better option than Matt Flynn. Maybe it's just a smokescreen in hopes the Seahawks actually will release Flynn. I think the media is injecting that proposition into the matter as they realize the Seahawks can just hold onto Flynn or rework the deal as Hawkstorian mentioned. So, perhaps all that is wishful thinking my the media and others. I don't see JS caving to any of this. I would love to have Flynn on the roster next season. I think RW is very durable and knows how to play smart... but, should the Seahawks need to turn to a backup, I'd rather it be Flynn than a rookie unless they can trade him for something of value.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Flynn is not good....most of you wayyyyyyyy overvalue him.

 

[SE174]

I'd be a lot more comfortable knowing that if something happened to Wilson, our chances wouldn't be shot.

Would they be any more shot if 2012 Kirk Cousins was the backup?

I'd argue, no.

Rookies are expected to start in year one these days, let alone be solid backups.

Disagree. First round QBs are expected to start in year one, and of course guys like Luck and RG3 are going to be good. Guys like them (and Russell) don't come around very often. More often than not, guys like Ponder, Mallet, and Locker are available, and struggle when starting early in their careers.

 

[Lady Talon]

If I were JS I would restructure Flynn to a friendlier backup contract, and as a hook to keep him here I'd guarantee him some home starts, 2-3 of them.

Our home schedule is easier then our away schedule. Let him start against Arizona and Tennessee or walkovers like that since the D steps up in the Clink and visitors have to deal with the noise. #1 It would double his Pro game experience, if he excels, 60%+ comp. 3-1 TD to Int, teams will be a lot more interested in him in 2014. #2 It might (depending on his performance) increase what they'd pay us to obtain him in 2014, maybe a 2nd or 3rd rounder, teams are ALWAYS desperate and willing to overpay for quality QBs they just haven't seen enough of Flynn to be convinced, and there's the large contract issue.

If he stinks, well at least his contract is smaller and you can throw Wilson back in the game and throw Flynn back on the bench. Good for Flynn, good for us, good for another team.

Could always pull a Belicheck and list Wilson as Questionable with a fake shoulder injury Brady style then name Flynn the starter late in the week, so the opposing teams will be at a disadvantage game planning him, while he works with Bevell to get a game plan going himself.

If it is for the good of the team I don't think it will cause RW any setbacks. From what I've seen he and Flynn are pretty friendly.

That would pretty much go against everything that Pete Carroll stands for. Plus it would be an extremely unnecessary move.

People in business often have to swallow their principles at some point or another. If the alternative is keeping him for his current contract, or cutting him and watching teams simply wait until waivers expire and sign him for pennies while we swallow down the most of the hit in our cap, what harm would it be to show off your backups talent in a few games he's likely to win and increase his worth for a trade? I don't think PC's whole kingdom will come crumbling down.

 

[FlyingGreg]

Tom Brady doesn't have a $7+ million backup. Neither does Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, and on and on. What do they have behind them? Draft picks, often ones with no NFL starting experience whatsoever.

Yes. And that's why those teams would be screwed if those guys get hurt. And none of them had a Russell Wilson to deal with, so the comparison is moot. I don't want us to be in that position.

We have feast in a famine position. I'd want to get something for Flynn instead of just releasing him.

If I knew who would be the #2, I might feel better. Putting our hopes in another rookie lightning in a bottle scenario seems illogical unless we get serious return on investment.

 

[HUGGY]

Flynn is not good....most of you wayyyyyyyy overvalue him.

I agree. I watched his GB highlights and IMHO he sucked. Looking at his skill set in the videos I'm kinda wondering what PC and Schneider saw in him. I shudder to think what we would witness if God For Bid Russell Wilson needs a time out.