Peter King on Matt Flynn

[FlyingGreg]

Who would like they like as much as Wilson? He's a once in a generation QB. I'd love to hear a name instead of fantasy. And the only "legit people" that matter reside in the Seahawks front office. And it's ok to apply a common sense model and not have to be persuaded by the media. I don't need Peter King to dictate my thoughts.

Well, the Seahawks almost certainly didn't see Wilson as a 'once in a generation' type QB last year otherwise they wouldn't have waited until round three to draft him. It's very easy for any of us to sit here and say Schneider and Carroll forecast Wilson to be the sensation he's been. The reality is probably more that they simply liked him a ton and took him in a round where they believed he was good value with a shot to be an eventual starter.

Credit where credit's due for having the foresight to draft him, and even more credit for turning him into what he became... but Schneider admitted this week that while he liked Wilson, he didn't expect what we saw in 2012. It worked out better than I'm sure anyone expected.

There's every chance there's a quarterback out there that they like a lot within this class too. Enough to grade him in a similar, if not exact fashion to Wilson. I could give you names, like Sean Renfree, Colby Cameron and Matt Scott, and you could ask 'who are these guys'? Well they're pretty good, mobile quarterbacks who could run a similar playbook to Wilson. Renfree and Cameron in particular have starter potential. And they might be there in round four or five. There are other QB's who if they fall to a certain level (Manuel, Bray, Wilson) that you'd simply have to consider. The way Tyler Bray threw today, I'd be hard pushed to pass on him in round three the same way New England struggled to pass on Ryan Mallett. Either way, there's a chance that Schneider and Carroll feel that they can get another good young QB on this roster. And they won't necessarily have to like them exactly as much as Wilson, but they could have a grade high enough that they believe it's worth the pick and that they can be a backup early like Kirk Cousins.

So going this route isn't so ridiculous. More and more rookies start these days, and we're just talking about being an early backup.

And nobody is saying you need Peter King to 'dictate your thoughts'. His opinion though, dare I say, is more qualified than yours or mine. He's the one going to U2 gigs with John Schneider after all. I could see a trade, him staying or him being cut. This is an option, though.

True, anything is possible. I wouldn't be shocked if they did release him, but obviously the trade is preferable. He's more valuable to us as a quality back-up than he is released with no compensation and dead money against the cap. That's pure fact. However, if they do find a more Wilson-like replacement in the draft, I'd agree the writing is on the wall that something is coming.

And Peter King is not more qualified than any of us to have an opinion. Don't sell us short.

 

[Traxs]

Chris Mortensen said Tebow was a lock to be on the Jags, too. There may not be much of a market now, but we'll see how it develops over the next couple months. They can wait until the second day of the draft to trade him or more. Can King see that far into the future?

 

[Hawkfan77]

Well, the Seahawks almost certainly didn't see Wilson as a 'once in a generation' type QB last year otherwise they wouldn't have waited until round three to draft him. It's very easy for any of us to sit here and say Schneider and Carroll forecast Wilson to be the sensation he's been. The reality is probably more that they simply liked him a ton and took him in a round where they believed he was good value with a shot to be an eventual starter.

Credit where credit's due for having the foresight to draft him, and even more credit for turning him into what he became... but Schneider admitted this week that while he liked Wilson, he didn't expect what we saw in 2012. It worked out better than I'm sure anyone expected.

I actually remember listening to an interview with Schneider after the draft where he said he had to be talked out of taking Wilson in the 1st. Said the scouts promised him that Wilson would be available later.

But I do agree with your other points about finding another QB with similar skills to Wilson. I think it's important to have a backup in similar nature to your starter, especially when that starter is athletic and your team runs some read option. And finding a later round guy, who you pay very little, would be perfect. Saves cap.

English, in your opinion, which later round QB fits the Hawks best?

 

[HUGGY]

Makes no sense to release him. Pete's had one too many lattes.

It does if you don't want your starter earning peanuts for the next few years while the backup earns $7.25m.

Cutting Flynn saves $1.25m in 2013, $2m in 2014 and $5.25m in cash. Some people disagree, but personally I can't wait for the backup QB to just be the cheap guy who holds a clipboard again. A nobody who never takes the field. I don't think we need an expensive backup, in fact I'd rather see which QB's are left between rounds 3-7, draft one and hope to develop them into a better trade asset just like Washington did with Kirk Cousins or New England did with Cassel.

I agree 100%. There is no "backup" for Russell Wilson. As the team evolves more closely to Wilson's strengths the thought of a backup coming in makes me nauseous. RW's clear separation is that he invites the attempted sack. Anybody else will just get sacked. It's Russell Wilson til the wheels come off. Get used to it.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

English, in your opinion, which later round QB fits the Hawks best?

I'm really only just getting into these guys, because for the first time since I started following the Seahawks we haven't 'needed' to draft a young QB. I kind of enjoyed looking at different positions this year.

Colby Cameron really impressed me at the combine today. Better velocity than I expected to see. Ran a 4.6. I'm aware of his college career at Louisiana Tech because he broke one of Russell Wilson's records (can't remember which). I've got some Quinton Patten tape to watch so I'll check out Cameron too. He reminds me a little bit of Kirk Cousins but a better athlete, maybe not so good throwing the ball.

Sean Renfree is another guy I'm just getting into. A lot of people like him. Big, tall, strong. Not immobile but not incredibly elusive. Heart and soul of the Duke team by all means. Watched a game the other day and liked what I saw. Makes the right decisions.

 

[kearly]

Makes no sense to release him. Pete's had one too many lattes.

Releasing him saves $9.5 million in cap space over the next two seasons ($15.5 million - $6 million in "dead money"). Draft a guy like Matt Scott in round 5 and pay him $500k per year, and voila, you just saved $8.5 million while adding more options and youth to your QB group. It makes all kinds of sense. Trading him makes even more sense obviously, but you can't trade if you don't have a buyer.

Flynn won't rework his contract to be a backup. In a league where T-Jack will get a chance to compete for a starting job in 2013, Flynn could almost certainly find a similar opportunity as a free agent. And language used by Pete Carroll about wanting a read option QB hints that the team wishes to move on from Flynn as well. I would hope that Flynn would be amenable to a restructure-and-trade, but those types of moves are pretty uncommon.

 

[FlyingGreg]

Makes no sense to release him. Pete's had one too many lattes.

Releasing him saves $9.5 million in cap space over the next two seasons. Draft a guy like Matt Scott in round 5 and pay him $500k per year, and voila, you just saved $8.5 million while adding more options and youth to your QB group. It makes all kinds of sense. Trading him makes even more sense obviously, but you can't trade if you don't have a buyer.

Kip, I know you love Matt Scott...so I'll give you a break. :lol:

Do you want Matt Scott filling in for Russell Wilson in week 2 next season if Wilson suffers a catastrophic injury?

Yeah, me either.

As John Schneider just said last week, the cap is not a consideration for what happens with Matt Flynn. So the potential cap savings are not a factor, IMO. Cap savings don't win football games, especially for a team on the doorstep of going to the Super Bowl.

Try to trade him. If you can't, it's going to have to be a great scenario for me to buy into releasing him. I guess the saving grace is the rest of the team is so good, we can probably get by without having a really great option behind Wilson.

But that seems awfully risky to me.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

According to Jason La Canfora tonight, a deal to trade Alex Smith is effectively complete between San Francisco and another team:

"The 49ers have expressed to others that a deal for QB Alex Smith is effectively complete. Can't be finalized til league year begins 3/12 so it's not official, both clubs view it at as it's effectively done. I do not know the other team. KC and JAX are 2 teams that make sense"

LINK: https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora

There's been a LOT of speculation at the combine that Kansas City were going to make a deal for Smith, and that it was almost a foregone conclusion.

 

[morgulon1]

Here's a poser for you...

What if Seattle has found another QB they like in the rounds 3-7 range? Someone they like almost as much as Wilson?

Not impossible, especially with 11 picks.

Come on. There won't be a guy they liked "almost as much as Wilson" for the next decade, let alone in this draft. :141847_bnono: This years QB class is weak, and everyone knows it.

You don't release a quality back-up like Flynn because of cap savings, and both Pete and John have already said they won't do that. Trading him is a different story, because at least you get something in return.

But a release? Nope, doesn't make sense.

Agreed. Your backup is one play away from being an NFL starter. Maybe its "not fair" that Flynn is making some $ and Russell Wilson is on a modest 3rd round rookie contract that he has already outplayed. Maybe Obama can do something about that. Hahaha. I would be for keeping Flynnn as long as possible. If he DOES in fact get a chance to play and performs well. The market gets stupid once again and PC/JS will look like the evil genius' they are.

 

[kearly]

Makes no sense to release him. Pete's had one too many lattes.

Kip, I know you love Matt Scott...so I'll give you a break. :lol:

Do you want Matt Scott filling in for Russell Wilson in week 2 next season if Wilson suffers a catastrophic injury?

Yeah, me either.

RE: John Schneider's comments. It's lying season. Nobody wants to pay a backup $15.5 million over the next two seasons, that's why he has no trade market.

If Wilson suffers a catastrophic injury in week 2, we're FUBAR regardless.

I value a good backup, but Wilson has proven to be remarkably anti-injury so far at every level he's played at. The odds of this scenario happening are extremely low, IMO, and I'm comfortable with that risk.

Also, Matt Scott > Matt Flynn IMO. Especially in our offense. He's a massively under-rated player that fits the point guard role to a tee. As good as his numbers were last year as a 1st year starter, that was him playing in an extremely controlled offense which really held down his talent for improvisation. I think he'd do far better in our more open ended improvisational styled offense than he did with Rich-Rod's "get rid of the ball in 2-seconds" style. He's going to be pretty good, especially if it's our team that gets him. Think I'm crazy? Laugh now while you still can.

 

[FlyingGreg]

RE: John Schneider's comments. It's lying season. Nobody wants to pay a backup $15.5 million over the next two seasons, that's why he has no trade market.

If Wilson suffers a catastrophic injury in week 2, we're FUBAR regardless.

I value a good backup, but Wilson has proven to be remarkably anti-injury so far at every level he's played at. The odds of this scenario happening are extremely low, IMO, and I'm comfortable with that risk.

Also, Matt Scott > Matt Flynn IMO. Especially in our offense. He's a massively under-rated player that fits the point guard role to a tee. As good as his numbers were last year as a 1st year starter, that was him playing in an extremely controlled offense which really held down his talent for improvisation. I think he'd do far better in our more open ended improvisational styled offense than he did with Rich-Rod's "get rid of the ball in 2-seconds" style. He's going to be pretty good, especially if it's our team that gets him. Think I'm crazy? Laugh now while you still can.

I think John and Pete have been pretty honest about most things in general. I don't see the Flynn comments as part of lying season, I just don't. Releasing him just because of the cap savings doesn't make sense.

Disagree that we are "FUBAR" if we lose Wilson. Can we go as far as we would w/ him? Clearly not. But I think Flynn would still make us pretty good.

I don't know enough about Scott, so I'll take your word for it. Nobody said you are crazy...the bigger point is you are releasing a veteran with knowledge of our system in exchange for an unproven rookie, all for cap savings at a position that we are not overly paying for. Sorry, not passing the litmus test for me.

You keep Flynn unless you are damn sure you have a ready-to-plug-in replacement in place. Is that a rookie like Scott that's on nobody's radar right now? Seems unlikely.

The context here is important. If this was the 2010 team, it would be much more likely because we were miles away from being competitive. But as we sit here today, we are a legitimate Super Bowl contender.

 

[Happypuppy]

I don't see him being cut. It may not happen until after the draft and a team fails to get the QB wanted. It dies not look like his contract is that bad to rework. I think they get a 4th for him or a player

 

[BigMeach]

Please stop jinxing Wilson into injury. Everyone simultaneously knock on wood and throw salt over your left shoulder to anti jinx.

 

[QuahHawk]

No way no how do we cut Flynn. He will only save us 1.5 Mil and we still have to pay someone else to fill his spot. I don't think too many vet Qb's will take less than $1.5. If we go with a rookie you are no likely to have to keep two back ups because if RW goes down we are SOL with a late round rookie starting.

As crazy as this sounds I'd trade Flynn, our 2nd and 5th, to the Jets for their 2nd and Tebow. Laugh all you want but I think Tebow would get along with RW and up here in Alaska the media would leave him alone. If RW got hurt Tebow could at least run us with a similar read option offense and Lynch and Trubin would do the bulk of the work those games.

 

[Happypuppy]

Why are you ( and others as well) so high on Tebow? What aspect of his game is so exciting? I view him as a jack if all trades, master of none.

I would rather trade down than up, this class is pretty deep

 

[Hawkstorian]

Let's at least talk from the same set of facts.

Cutting him now saves $3.25M in 2013. It would also save the $6.25M in 2014 but nobody believes he'll see that so it's not really part of this discussion.

IMO --- $3.25 on a 1 year deal for a quality backup QB is not unreasonable. He'll stay.

 

[HUGGY]

Please stop jinxing Wilson into injury. Everyone simultaneously knock on wood and throw salt over your left shoulder to anti jinx.

Done! It's our only hope. The fate of the NFCW rests in the inevitable QB injury that throws a monkey wrench into the mix. I vote the victim/s be SF and am attempting to chanel vodoo from Haiti to see that Wilson is protected and CK has an unfortunate collision which leaves RW the only completly healthy running QB in the NFL at the end of the season.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

If we go with a rookie you are no likely to have to keep two back ups because if RW goes down we are SOL with a late round rookie starting.

Kirk Cousins.

Let's at least talk from the same set of facts.

Cutting him now saves $3.25M in 2013. It would also save the $6.25M in 2014 but nobody believes he'll see that so it's not really part of this discussion.

IMO --- $3.25 on a 1 year deal for a quality backup QB is not unreasonable. He'll stay.

You only save $1.25m of pure cap in 2013. But that won't be the only argument for cutting him.

For starters, there's not an unlikely possibility that they don't feel it's necessary to carry such an expensive backup, and making savings in 2013 and 2014 on the position, however big or small, will be necessary. It doesn't seem Carroll-esque to have one of your highest earning players essentially contributing absolutely nothing to the team but for an emergency. And while having a capable backup is important, you don't necessarily have to make it one of the highest paid positions on the roster.

I think I'm right in saying Carroll and Schneider have both admitted it would be ideal to have a quarterback with a least a passing resemblance to the skill set Wilson has -- eg, point guard type with plus mobility and a good arm. That way in a worst case scenario, either mid game or mid season, you're not changing too much if Wilson gets injured. Installing Flynn -- more of a timing, pocket passer -- would include a bigger upheaval. It would require a fairly substantial sea-change to the offense. And I think they'd possibly like to avoid that.

While it is clear that Wilson wouldn't have any issue or cause for complaint given he's set to earn peanuts in comparison to Flynn's $7.25m this year, it creates an akward dynamic for a team based on competition. Flynn will be one of the highest earners on the roster this year, and yet he will have 0% chance of starting unless Wilson gets injured.

Now as fans we can sit here and say, "Oh what the hell. They just all have to get on with it." However, Carroll might not see it that way. Having a solidified starter (Wilson) and an immovable backup but only due to cost (Flynn) completely eliminates any kind of competition at that position. Plus, Carroll's forte so far... aside from signing Rice/Miller which was kind of opportunistic... is if you buy in, earn your chance, we'll look after you. Flynn's contract flies in the face of that. It preaches the opposite. He essentially lost his competition and is still getting paid more than most of the other players on the team, including vital starters.

I suspect in an ideal world, Carroll would have a rookie and a vet minimum veteran competing for the backup job in camp. Maybe a third player too, such as an UDFA. If he believes maintaining that competition is crucial... even at a position where they've uncovered a brilliant starter (Wilson), then cutting Flynn isn't such an unbelievable situation.

Just some suggestions on why it might not be such an impossible suggestion being made by Peter King.

 

[Shadowhawk]

My guess -- they'll redo his deal, cut his salary by a $2M or so, an waive the last year so he'll be a free agency in 2014. Call it the Hill/Trufant plan.

And if Flynn comes back and says "I'm not restructuring; pay me or cut me," then what?

 

[Happypuppy]

One team I think would be a good fit would be the .... titans. I have never been sold on Locker and if I was with the organization I would have doubts. Matt H is scheduled to make 5.5 to 7.5 this year. He is willing to renegotiate but do you really even want him on that team? If Flynn costs a 4th, you get him for 2 years and could hedge your bet if Locker flops. They also have some trading chips..