Penny time!

[chris98251]

IIRC: Shaun Alexander didn't have many carries his first season, either.

Well, excuse me for trying to be positive.

Alexander would not pass block, we had Watters that put him to shame as a blocker and a receiver and ran the ball, Alexander was riding his Bama fame till Holmgren called him out and hurt his feelings by benching him till he learned to be a Pro.

 

[AgentDib]

I think many of you severely underestimate our RB availability issues last season.

- JD McKissic played in 13 games
- Thomas Rawls played in 12 games
- Eddie Lacy played in 9 games
- Tre Madden played in 8 games
- Mike Davis played in 6 games
- CJ Prosise played in 5 games
- Chris Carson played in 4 games

Remember that fixing the running game was the FO's main point of emphasis over the off-season and with Rawls and Lacy being shown the door adding another RB became very important to them. Keeping reliable options available at RB looked to require adding at least one more RB and spreading the workload out as much as possible.

As long as Carson and Davis are both healthy and looking great then of course the Penny move looks unnecessary, but frankly that is a problem that the Hawks are thrilled to be having. And I hate to even point it out but 5 games into the season is a bit early to assume Penny will not be needed for a major role later on. So far in 2018 McKissic has already ended up on IR in the preseason and Prosise might as well have.

Whether Penny was the right RB to take and whether we needed to take one in the first are fair questions. Assuming that we didn't need a RB because Carson and Davis are both healthy through 5 games this season is ridiculous, and I'm a huge Carson advocate.

 

[seedhawk]

So far Penny is running like his name, a penny back in the group of dime a dozen backs.

 

[toffee]

I like to opin that the coaching staffs are doing the right thing on Penny, only put him out there or carry when he could be successful. Penny had a tough off season and first three games, haters like toffee was real tough on him. Coaches are rebuilding his confidence, and doing a GOOD job.

How is watching a 7th round pick put you to shame building your confidence exactly?

I remember that's how Walsh built Montana's confidence ... he only insert Montana into situations that Montana could shine. For the first season, Montana didn't play much, but he was reasonably successful when he played. I read it from Walsh's book, and asked him about that when he was in Stanford.

 

[hawknation2018]

I think many of you severely underestimate our RB availability issues last season.

- JD McKissic played in 13 games
- Thomas Rawls played in 12 games
- Eddie Lacy played in 9 games
- Tre Madden played in 8 games
- Mike Davis played in 6 games
- CJ Prosise played in 5 games
- Chris Carson played in 4 games

Remember that fixing the running game was the FO's main point of emphasis over the off-season and with Rawls and Lacy being shown the door adding another RB became very important to them. Keeping reliable options available at RB looked to require adding at least one more RB and spreading the workload out as much as possible.

As long as Carson and Davis are both healthy and looking great then of course the Penny move looks unnecessary, but frankly that is a problem that the Hawks are thrilled to be having. And I hate to even point it out but 5 games into the season is a bit early to assume Penny will not be needed for a major role later on. So far in 2018 McKissic has already ended up on IR in the preseason and Prosise might as well have.

Whether Penny was the right RB to take and whether we needed to take one in the first are fair questions. Assuming that we didn't need a RB because Carson and Davis are both healthy through 5 games this season is ridiculous, and I'm a huge Carson advocate.

Well done.

 

[LymonHawk]

IIRC: Shaun Alexander didn't have many carries his first season, either.

Well, excuse me for trying to be positive.

Alexander would not pass block, we had Watters that put him to shame as a blocker and a receiver and ran the ball, Alexander was riding his Bama fame till Holmgren called him out and hurt his feelings by benching him till he learned to be a Pro.

That's what I said!!

 

[xray]

Penny is probably on the shelf other than some ST play ; unless an injury happens to Carson or Davis. I hope Carroll doesn't play him just because he was a 1st round pick ; because he appears to be more a 6th or 7th rounder...it's hard to tell much about him while he rides the pine.

 

[The Breh]

We have 2 players out playing our #1 pick. And somehow that's a bad thing. He's got nothing but time to get in better shape and pick up the league's nuances.
He's also spent most of his time running behind the inferior version of our line minus Fluker and with Pocic.
It's a blessing to not have to throw him right there out there.
Instant gratification .net y'all.

 

[sutz]

Penny is probably on the shelf other than some ST play ; unless an injury happens to Carson or Davis. I hope Carroll doesn't play him just because he was a 1st round pick ; because he appears to be more a 6th or 7th rounder...it's hard to tell much about him while he rides the pine.

That's kind of the point. Pete doesn't really care where a guy was drafted. Not his concern. He plays the guys that are getting the job done. Right now, Carson and Davis are getting it done, in good style. No need to force Penny into the games.

 

[Seymour]

Penny is probably on the shelf other than some ST play ; unless an injury happens to Carson or Davis. I hope Carroll doesn't play him just because he was a 1st round pick ; because he appears to be more a 6th or 7th rounder...it's hard to tell much about him while he rides the pine.

That's kind of the point. Pete doesn't really care where a guy was drafted. Not his concern. He plays the guys that are getting the job done. Right now, Carson and Davis are getting it done, in good style. No need to force Penny into the games.

I'll disagree with that. Early in the year when Carson was clearly out producing Penny, Penny was still getting the bulk of the carries for that exact reason, his draft position. It became too obvious to everyone to continue, and now Carson is the man again.
We also have seen similar favoritism with Ifedi and others over the years.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Penny is probably on the shelf other than some ST play ; unless an injury happens to Carson or Davis. I hope Carroll doesn't play him just because he was a 1st round pick ; because he appears to be more a 6th or 7th rounder...it's hard to tell much about him while he rides the pine.

That's kind of the point. Pete doesn't really care where a guy was drafted. Not his concern. He plays the guys that are getting the job done. Right now, Carson and Davis are getting it done, in good style. No need to force Penny into the games.

I'll disagree with that. Early in the year when Carson was clearly out producing Penny, Penny was still getting the bulk of the carries for that exact reason, his draft position. It became too obvious to everyone to continue, and now Carson is the man again.
We also have seen similar favoritism with Ifedi and others over the years.

Yep. Seems like Pete likes to save face more than staying true to that 'Always Compete' slogan most of the time.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

I'll disagree with that. Early in the year when Carson was clearly out producing Penny, Penny was still getting the bulk of the carries for that exact reason, his draft position.

We can't know that. History of Pete suggests that's quite unlikely.

Could be any number of factors at play.

How does he look in practice?
How does Carson look?
Nagging injuries we don't know about?
Reasonable expectation for Carson's health?
Game plan relative to player strengths?

There are a lot more factors. None of which we have any insight to on the outside. Given Carson's injury history and what we know about how he has had difficulty remaining healthy over the course of seasons (both pros and in college), it would be reasonable to try and committee our RB corps.

And it's worth noting, they are still splitting carries with Carson. Just not with Penny. Davis is taking a big chunk of the load now too. If draft position were a consideration, how would one reconcile using Davis instead of Penny?

I think Pete's history and the fact that we still split carries with Carson refute that opinion.

Additionally, I'd argue that opinion is entirely anecdotal. Penny had ONE game where he got the most carries out of the five we've played. And even then, that was 10 carries out of 19 (Chicago). The very next game, Carson had 32 of the 37 carries and got nicked and missed the next game. Carson's usage has been moderated since and rightly so.

I'd agree that Penny has thus far shown he's the worst of the RB draft class by a wide margin. But the numbers don't support that Penny was being featured. And it's still early to write off Penny. I mentioned this in the Alex Collins thread too -- many rookies make that year two leap and cutting them in year two is the equivalent of selling low on a player. The best course of action IMO is to keep Penny involved. And see where we're at after the end of year two.

If you want to discuss whether or not he was a good pick -- I confess I was not a fan of the pick. I thought Chubb was the second best prospect and harbored hope we'd target Royce Freeman in day two. I strongly felt like our best pick would have been Lamar Jackson. But that's a different topic entirely.

 

[Seymour]

I'll disagree with that. Early in the year when Carson was clearly out producing Penny, Penny was still getting the bulk of the carries for that exact reason, his draft position.

We can't know that. History of Pete suggests that's quite unlikely.

Could be any number of factors at play.

How does he look in practice?
How does Carson look?
Nagging injuries we don't know about?
Reasonable expectation for Carson's health?
Game plan relative to player strengths?

There are a lot more factors. None of which we have any insight to on the outside. Given Carson's injury history and what we know about how he has had difficulty remaining healthy over the course of seasons (both pros and in college), it would be reasonable to try and committee our RB corps.

And it's worth noting, they are still splitting carries with Carson. Just not with Penny. Davis is taking a big chunk of the load now too. If draft position were a consideration, how would one reconcile using Davis instead of Penny?

I think Pete's history and the fact that we still split carries with Carson refute that opinion.

Additionally, I'd argue that opinion is entirely anecdotal. Penny had ONE game where he got the most carries out of the five we've played. And even then, that was 10 carries out of 19 (Chicago). The very next game, Carson had 32 of the 37 carries and got nicked and missed the next game. Carson's usage has been moderated since and rightly so.

I'd agree that Penny has thus far shown he's the worst of the RB draft class by a wide margin. But the numbers don't support that Penny was being featured. And it's still early to write off Penny. I mentioned this in the Alex Collins thread too -- many rookies make that year two leap and cutting them in year two is the equivalent of selling low on a player. The best course of action IMO is to keep Penny involved. And see where we're at after the end of year two.

If you want to discuss whether or not he was a good pick -- I confess I was not a fan of the pick. I thought Chubb was the second best prospect and harbored hope we'd target Royce Freeman in day two. I strongly felt like our best pick would have been Lamar Jackson. But that's a different topic entirely.

Or.....we could use simple logic because it's pretty obvious to me.

Like I said, it became glaringly obvious to all that Penny was 3rd string, so that is why Davis is 2. Not even Pete could try explaining that away any longer so he did what he was forced to do.

I'll never believe Penny earned those early reps no matter how many reasons others post as "possible".

BTW, I haven't written off Penny yet either, only going with what we have up until this point. He could end up being productive still I agree.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It's a loooooong season, I guarantee you we'll need Penny to come in and produce.

Both Davis and Carson are running as hard as hell at contact, that usually means nagging injuries recovering week to week. So we're gonna need Penny.

Now was he worth a #1? No, as of now it wasn't a good pick. You draft a RB in the 1st round, he better be a 1,000 yard bell cow back with 10 TD's.

So we'll see, but as far as this conversation Penny isn't going anywhere, we'll need him this year, probably sooner rather than later. Davis looked gimpy in the 4th quarter Sunday, so I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up on the injury report this week.

 

[hawkfan68]

All this hubbub about a rookie rb 5 games into his NFL career (after having missed most of preseason). It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. Most of those are upset that Penny was chosen over Guice. Where is Guice right now? I'd say that Penny has out produced him thus far.

If the Seahawks had chosen someone else with the 1st round pick and Penny was successful elsewhere, the same folks would be whining about that pick and why the Seahawks didn't get Penny.

 

[LymonHawk]

All this hubbub about a rookie rb 5 games into his NFL career (after having missed most of preseason). It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. Most of those are upset that Penny was chosen over Guice. Where is Guice right now? I'd say that Penny has out produced him thus far.

If the Seahawks had chosen someone else with the 1st round pick and Penny was successful elsewhere, the same folks would be whining about that pick and why the Seahawks didn't get Penny.

Ain't that the truth. :2thumbs:

 

[adeltaY]

All this hubbub about a rookie rb 5 games into his NFL career (after having missed most of preseason). It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. Most of those are upset that Penny was chosen over Guice. Where is Guice right now? I'd say that Penny has out produced him thus far.

If the Seahawks had chosen someone else with the 1st round pick and Penny was successful elsewhere, the same folks would be whining about that pick and why the Seahawks didn't get Penny.

Ain't that the truth. :2thumbs:

Guice tore his ACL. He's not a healthy scratch so you can't really compare the two. That's like saying Uncle Will was a bad pick compared to some other TE taken late because he tore his patellar tendon.

 

[rjas77]

Going into the Draft, how many of you out there were confident that Carson and Davis would be as productive as they are now? Especially when Carson was unavailable the last half of the season. I fully understand why the FO made the pick when they did, and would hope they'd do it again.

Sgt. Largent is spot on....they way Carson plays/runs generally means there will be nagging injuries

 

[sutz]

All this hubbub about a rookie rb 5 games into his NFL career (after having missed most of preseason). It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. Most of those are upset that Penny was chosen over Guice. Where is Guice right now? I'd say that Penny has out produced him thus far.

If the Seahawks had chosen someone else with the 1st round pick and Penny was successful elsewhere, the same folks would be whining about that pick and why the Seahawks didn't get Penny.

Ain't that the truth. :2thumbs:

Guice tore his ACL. He's not a healthy scratch so you can't really compare the two. That's like saying Uncle Will was a bad pick compared to some other TE taken late because he tore his patellar tendon.

Plenty of times I've heard that line. "He got injured. It was a wasted pick." :34853_doh:

 

[Seymour]

All this hubbub about a rookie rb 5 games into his NFL career (after having missed most of preseason). It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. Most of those are upset that Penny was chosen over Guice. Where is Guice right now? I'd say that Penny has out produced him thus far.

If the Seahawks had chosen someone else with the 1st round pick and Penny was successful elsewhere, the same folks would be whining about that pick and why the Seahawks didn't get Penny.

Ain't that the truth. :2thumbs:

Guice tore his ACL. He's not a healthy scratch so you can't really compare the two. That's like saying Uncle Will was a bad pick compared to some other TE taken late because he tore his patellar tendon.

Plenty of times I've heard that line. "He got injured. It was a wasted pick." :34853_doh:

If there is a known glaring injury history the comment is valid IMO.