Kasen Williams -- Why He May Have Been Cut ...

[pittpnthrs]

The Williams decision was made based off of the Hawks' 2+ years of practice evaluation going against the LOB, not 6 catches made against an undrafted rookie CB for the Chargers who is no longer in the league, and the Vikings' Marcus Sherels, who has graded out below replacement level for his entire horrid career. And yes, Darboh has significantly greater upside than Williams, thus his 3rd round selection and why he would be kept over Williams. That upside didn't just evaporate simply because a minor injury caused him to miss time this pre-season and not have as much game tape as Williams. If pre-season game tape/stats taken entirely out of context were the measuring stick, then you could easily make the same case for keeping Pierre Desir instead of Shaquil Griffin, who like Darboh was also drafted in the 3rd round.

I'm not buying this when a member of the LOB has already spoken out about the cut and isn't happy. It took the guy 3 seasons to finally get it and when he does, he gets cut. That stinks. With a shrinking window, now more time will be wasted trying to get Darboh up to speed. I realize we're talking about a 5th or 6th receiver here, but Williams was an obvious shining light in the preseason and we opted to keep people that did much less.

By the way, many people (me included) are not happy we cut Desir either.

We should trust Sherman's talent evaluation? The guy who thought Tharold Simon was the next coming? Okay...

If you want to distrust a future hall of famer that lines up across from the people he's talking about every single day, knock yourself out. I'll trust his opinion.

 

[Hawkscanner]

Leaping is a skill that requires timing and quick twitch muscles, Basketball has a lot of tall players that if they can set themselves up to leap can go pretty high, but without it can't dunk a ball, a guy that can in the paint jump/turn/find the basket/ and dunk is a different type of leaper. Williams is the second type, jury out on Tanner, your right in essence he "should be able to" but in stride some guys can't get that elevation.

That's a excellent point Chris and it's one that I can definitely speak to personally. I'm 6'3" and played basketball in high school. When I was playing ball, I had a decent vertical (I used to be able to take a couple of short steps, hop straight up, and grab onto the rim). So, I had the hops necessary back then in order to dunk a basketball ... but I could never do it because I didn't have the coordination and am basically a slow twitch white guy. Good leapers tend to be those fast twitch guys with excellent coordination. I'm not sure which category McEvoy falls into, but in theory, he should be able to elevate.

Based solely upon plays like this one ... it sure LOOKS like he could be one of those receivers that (just like Kasen Williams) Russell Wilson would be able to throw it up there for ... and he would go up and get it.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-...ts-with-Tanner-McEvoy-for-a-28-yard-touchdown

 

[getnasty]

Leaping is a skill that requires timing and quick twitch muscles, Basketball has a lot of tall players that if they can set themselves up to leap can go pretty high, but without it can't dunk a ball, a guy that can in the paint jump/turn/find the basket/ and dunk is a different type of leaper. Williams is the second type, jury out on Tanner, your right in essence he "should be able to" but in stride some guys can't get that elevation.

That's a excellent point Chris and it's one that I can definitely speak to personally. I'm 6'3" and played basketball in high school. When I was playing ball, I had a decent vertical (I used to be able to take a couple of short steps, hop straight up, and grab onto the rim). So, I had the hops necessary back then in order to dunk a basketball ... but I could never do it because I didn't have the coordination and am basically a slow twitch white guy. Good leapers tend to be those fast twitch guys with excellent coordination. I'm not sure which category McEvoy falls into, but in theory, he should be able to elevate.

Based solely upon plays like this one ... it sure LOOKS like he could be one of those receivers that (just like Kasen Williams) Russell Wilson would be able to throw it up there for ... and he would go up and get it.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-...ts-with-Tanner-McEvoy-for-a-28-yard-touchdown

This, who cares if your 6'6" if you don't have ball skills. You throw a ball up to Golden Tate and McEvoy 10 times and I bet Tate comes down with it the majority of the time.

 

[LoneHawkFan]

The Williams decision was made based off of the Hawks' 2+ years of practice evaluation going against the LOB, not 6 catches made against an undrafted rookie CB for the Chargers who is no longer in the league, and the Vikings' Marcus Sherels, who has graded out below replacement level for his entire horrid career. And yes, Darboh has significantly greater upside than Williams, thus his 3rd round selection and why he would be kept over Williams. That upside didn't just evaporate simply because a minor injury caused him to miss time this pre-season and not have as much game tape as Williams. If pre-season game tape/stats taken entirely out of context were the measuring stick, then you could easily make the same case for keeping Pierre Desir instead of Shaquil Griffin, who like Darboh was also drafted in the 3rd round.

I'm not buying this when a member of the LOB has already spoken out about the cut and isn't happy. It took the guy 3 seasons to finally get it and when he does, he gets cut. That stinks. With a shrinking window, now more time will be wasted trying to get Darboh up to speed. I realize we're talking about a 5th or 6th receiver here, but Williams was an obvious shining light in the preseason and we opted to keep people that did much less.

By the way, many people (me included) are not happy we cut Desir either.

We should trust Sherman's talent evaluation? The guy who thought Tharold Simon was the next coming? Okay...

If you want to distrust a future hall of famer that lines up across from the people he's talking about every single day, knock yourself out. I'll trust his opinion.

I'll trust the guy that drafted and developed Sherman.

 

[chris98251]

I'm not buying this when a member of the LOB has already spoken out about the cut and isn't happy. It took the guy 3 seasons to finally get it and when he does, he gets cut. That stinks. With a shrinking window, now more time will be wasted trying to get Darboh up to speed. I realize we're talking about a 5th or 6th receiver here, but Williams was an obvious shining light in the preseason and we opted to keep people that did much less.

By the way, many people (me included) are not happy we cut Desir either.

We should trust Sherman's talent evaluation? The guy who thought Tharold Simon was the next coming? Okay...

If you want to distrust a future hall of famer that lines up across from the people he's talking about every single day, knock yourself out. I'll trust his opinion.

I'll trust the guy that drafted and developed Sherman.

Who was the same guy that drafted Ware, Howard and Parker who went on and were starters, many of us seen the guys play and really questioned those decisions at the time, I know few people give any experience to people on a message board, but many have played the game and or coached it here, some on a decent level, many understand concepts and techniques, that doesn't include several divorces and missed births and lost jobs due to going to and or watching football over their life time. We have seen the good, Holmgren, Knox, and Carroll, we have seen the bad, Patera but he was fun at least as we came in as a expansion, Erickson. Flores, Mora. The eye test for many who have seen the good and the bad does hold some weight, just as those EXPERTS or MEDIOTS as I call them said Wilson is a career back up or a practice squad guy for scout teams, or Largent was too slow, or Warner wasn't a NFL caliber QB. They get things wrong and many times the members of this board are more clued in to things then Madden experts want to give them credit for.

 

[LoneHawkFan]

We should trust Sherman's talent evaluation? The guy who thought Tharold Simon was the next coming? Okay...

If you want to distrust a future hall of famer that lines up across from the people he's talking about every single day, knock yourself out. I'll trust his opinion.

I'll trust the guy that drafted and developed Sherman.

Who was the same guy that drafted Ware, Howard and Parker who went on and were starters, many of us seen the guys play and really questioned those decisions at the time, I know few people give any experience to people on a message board, but many have played the game and or coached it here, some on a decent level, many understand concepts and techniques, that doesn't include several divorces and missed births and lost jobs due to going to and or watching football over their life time. We have seen the good, Holmgren, Knox, and Carroll, we have seen the bad, Patera but he was fun at least as we came in as a expansion, Erickson. Flores, Mora. The eye test for many who have seen the good and the bad does hold some weight, just as those EXPERTS or MEDIOTS as I call them said Wilson is a career back up or a practice squad guy for scout teams, or Largent was too slow, or Warner wasn't a NFL caliber QB. They get things wrong and many times the members of this board are more clued in to things then Madden experts want to give them credit for.

Every management team, every coach, every last person makes mistakes. Our's makes fewer than most. Makes consistently fewer than any Seahawk FO in the past- and I've seen them all as well. I liked what I saw in Kasen and texted out when he made a great gunner tackle in game 2 that I thought he "just made the 53". But, outside of the context of the half dozen nice plays he made...you know as well as I do that he didn't do the little things that our coaches ask of our receivers. He should know now, after 2.25 years in our system, that HE'S GOT TO GO 100% IN ALL FACETS OF THE GAME. If his effort wasn't there, if his inability to perform the dirty work wasn't there, then it's not a difficult decision.

What's your over-under on Kasen career catches? More or less than Darboh? More or less than McEvoy?

 

[chris98251]

If he sticks in Cleveland more, they throw more and will coming from behind more.

 

[Hawkscanner]

Bob Condotta chimes in on the "Why was Kasen Williams Cut?" question. He answers about as well as he can at this point and brings up a lot of points that many of us have already noted and more. It's a fairly good read ...

http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/...hy-did-seattle-waive-kasen-williams-and-more/

 

[Jimjones0384]

I didn't want this to get buried among all the comments of the cutdown thread, so thought I would make this its own thread and post this here as well. Shout out to AdeltaY for finding and sharing this.

So, the following is from a fellow 12 who shared some very insightful thoughts on reddit regarding Kasen Williams. He did a huge play by play in depth analysis of the Game Tape of Kasen Williams and the Week 4 Preseason Game against the Raiders. The piece speaks for itself ...

I was shocked Williams didn't make the team, and as I'd forgotten about my Gamepass subscription and it auto-renewed, this seemed like a great time to put that fallacious sunk cost to work. I remember distinctly watching Williams where I could once he started to ball out: I was hoping he could make the team, and he made some huge plays. However the first big thing that worried me came on this touchdown in week two: http://www.seahawks.com/video/2017/08/18/mike-davis-flips-end-zone-22-yard-touchdown. Williams completely misses out on blocking, or even knowing where people are on the field. It was bad.

So, here's a brief rewatch of the condensed game, skipping to all Williams plays that I can spot. Sorry, no All-22 in the preseason for Gamepass, because ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

The TL;DR is Williams looks great on his two receptions, but fails to really beat man coverage effectively most of the time. His blocking looks half-hearted and weak, especially compared to the effort the other receivers are putting in. He straight up just doesn't make an effort to get in front of his man when off the play, and even in some cases where he potentially could have had an impact.

My pitchforks are lowered.

And he continues with an in depth play by play analysis that continues below for those who are interested (very good stuff) ...

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Seahawks/comments/6xq5jb/kasen_williams_vs_the_raiders_preseason_week_4_a/

As much as I love Kasen, he really can't create separation very well. Whether it's because he is slow, or not the greatest route runner, I'm not completely sure. I know this, the reason he had to make such outstanding catches was because backup cornerbacks were step for step with him. He was able to out muscle and out jump the backups, but likely would be a very different story with starting quality corners. He didn't show out really well against kc starters.

 

[Jimjones0384]

The Williams decision was made based off of the Hawks' 2+ years of practice evaluation going against the LOB, not 6 catches made against an undrafted rookie CB for the Chargers who is no longer in the league, and the Vikings' Marcus Sherels, who has graded out below replacement level for his entire horrid career. And yes, Darboh has significantly greater upside than Williams, thus his 3rd round selection and why he would be kept over Williams. That upside didn't just evaporate simply because a minor injury caused him to miss time this pre-season and not have as much game tape as Williams. If pre-season game tape/stats taken entirely out of context were the measuring stick, then you could easily make the same case for keeping Pierre Desir instead of Shaquil Griffin, who like Darboh was also drafted in the 3rd round.

I'm not buying this when a member of the LOB has already spoken out about the cut and isn't happy. It took the guy 3 seasons to finally get it and when he does, he gets cut. That stinks. With a shrinking window, now more time will be wasted trying to get Darboh up to speed. I realize we're talking about a 5th or 6th receiver here, but Williams was an obvious shining light in the preseason and we opted to keep people that did much less.

By the way, many people (me included) are not happy we cut Desir either.

We should trust Sherman's talent evaluation? The guy who thought Tharold Simon was the next coming? Okay...

If you want to distrust a future hall of famer that lines up across from the people he's talking about every single day, knock yourself out. I'll trust his opinion.

And what about the opinions of a future hall of fame coach, and possible hall of fame GM? Your attempt to shut down the Convo with the Sherman Trump card won't work here.

 

[12thbrah]

All this fuss over arguably someone who might have been at best the 5th pass catching option on this team. Moving on

 

[Hawkpower]

Kasen Williams was cut because he isn't very good,

end story

No one saying he is Julio Jones but is he better then McEvoy or Mckisic?

No.

What would .net be without a good preseason overreaction rumble? Pope=Kasen.

c'mon guys. we are better than this.........right?????

 

[Josea16]

Why are we talking about a Cleveland Brown? I'm curious so why?

 

[Hawkscanner]

Why are we talking about a Cleveland Brown? I'm curious so why?

You know, for those who are tempted to cite the fact that Cleveland rushed to sign Kasen Williams to the 53 Man Roster, I would be remiss if I didn't also point out that the Browns are right now what the Seahawks used to be during the Behring years. It is an undisputed fact that the Browns are one of THE very worst run organizations in all the NFL. They are a laughingstock and everyone knows it. I wouldn't put too much stock in anything they do or any decisions they make, personnel wise.

Now, I'm not necessarily saying that Kasen Williams isn't going to be a productive NFL WR. He very well may be. BUT, the Browns as an organization will find some way to screw this up, misuse him, etc. I totally understand needing a job and am happy for him that he gets to play in the NFL on Sundays. On the one hand, it's a dream come true. He's a professional football player. That's something to be proud of. BUT MAN ... it's the Browns! Oooooof!!! I feel bad for the guy, I really do. I predict he'll be out of Cleveland in 3 years or less.

 

[Josea16]

Why are we talking about a Cleveland Brown? I'm curious so why?

You know, for those who are tempted to cite the fact that Cleveland rushed to sign Kasen Williams to the 53 Man Roster, I would be remiss if I didn't also point out that the Browns are right now what the Seahawks used to be during the Behring years. It is an undisputed fact that the Browns are one of THE very worst run organizations in all the NFL. They are a laughingstock and everyone knows it. I wouldn't put too much stock in anything they do or any decisions they make, personnel wise.

Now, I'm not necessarily saying that Kasen Williams isn't going to be a productive NFL WR. He very well may be. BUT, the Browns as an organization will find some way to screw this up, misuse him, etc. I totally understand needing a job and am happy for him that he gets to play in the NFL on Sundays. On the one hand, it's a dream come true. He's a professional football player. That's something to be proud of. BUT MAN ... it's the Browns! Oooooof!!! I feel bad for the guy, I really do. I predict he'll be out of Cleveland in 3 years or less.

We know what he is and obviously Cleveland or NYJ would pick him up. Why the angst at this point? Seriously isn't it awesome that the FO is toe to toe with the Patriots FO and we trade with each other straight up and both win? It's all good.

 

[Bobblehead]

He's with the Browns.. who gives a crap, not like he went to the Packers, then it might be of concern. Better the Browns than say, Packs, the Patriots, Steelers. etc etc.. Right now, he's a sleeping dog.

 

[Foghawk]

Why are we talking about a Cleveland Brown? I'm curious so why?

You know, for those who are tempted to cite the fact that Cleveland rushed to sign Kasen Williams to the 53 Man Roster, I would be remiss if I didn't also point out that the Browns are right now what the Seahawks used to be during the Behring years. It is an undisputed fact that the Browns are one of THE very worst run organizations in all the NFL. They are a laughingstock and everyone knows it. I wouldn't put too much stock in anything they do or any decisions they make, personnel wise.

Now, I'm not necessarily saying that Kasen Williams isn't going to be a productive NFL WR. He very well may be. BUT, the Browns as an organization will find some way to screw this up, misuse him, etc. I totally understand needing a job and am happy for him that he gets to play in the NFL on Sundays. On the one hand, it's a dream come true. He's a professional football player. That's something to be proud of. BUT MAN ... it's the Browns! Oooooof!!! I feel bad for the guy, I really do. I predict he'll be out of Cleveland in 3 years or less.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I'm not buying this when a member of the LOB has already spoken out about the cut and isn't happy. It took the guy 3 seasons to finally get it and when he does, he gets cut. That stinks. With a shrinking window, now more time will be wasted trying to get Darboh up to speed. I realize we're talking about a 5th or 6th receiver here, but Williams was an obvious shining light in the preseason and we opted to keep people that did much less.

By the way, many people (me included) are not happy we cut Desir either.

We should trust Sherman's talent evaluation? The guy who thought Tharold Simon was the next coming? Okay...

If you want to distrust a future hall of famer that lines up across from the people he's talking about every single day, knock yourself out. I'll trust his opinion.

And what about the opinions of a future hall of fame coach, and possible hall of fame GM? Your attempt to shut down the Convo with the Sherman Trump card won't work here.

I've seen Pete Carroll be wrong on more than one occasion. Sherman,,,not so much. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about the situation. Still think Pete was to proud to send his 3rd round choice away rather than the guy who outplayed him, but at this point who cares. Williams and Darboh aren't important enough for all this stress.

 

[Hawkscanner]

Why are we talking about a Cleveland Brown? I'm curious so why?

You know, for those who are tempted to cite the fact that Cleveland rushed to sign Kasen Williams to the 53 Man Roster, I would be remiss if I didn't also point out that the Browns are right now what the Seahawks used to be during the Behring years. It is an undisputed fact that the Browns are one of THE very worst run organizations in all the NFL. They are a laughingstock and everyone knows it. I wouldn't put too much stock in anything they do or any decisions they make, personnel wise.

Now, I'm not necessarily saying that Kasen Williams isn't going to be a productive NFL WR. He very well may be. BUT, the Browns as an organization will find some way to screw this up, misuse him, etc. I totally understand needing a job and am happy for him that he gets to play in the NFL on Sundays. On the one hand, it's a dream come true. He's a professional football player. That's something to be proud of. BUT MAN ... it's the Browns! Oooooof!!! I feel bad for the guy, I really do. I predict he'll be out of Cleveland in 3 years or less.

Scary. That just SO makes my point for me. And speaking of Cleveland and this whole debate, this classic scene comes to mind -- especially the fan's comment at the very end.
https://vlipsy.com/vlip/major-league-too-high-what-does-that-mean-too-high-eY3Gr19e

This is the point that I'm at right now with the whole thing ...

[youtube]OQT5pUVN3F4[/youtube]

Time to begin focusing on the regular season and the task at hand of winning another Super Bowl guys!!!

 

[pcbball12]

After some passed time I have come to understand the reasoning behind Kasen getting cut, even if I don't necessarily agree with it.

Mcevoy is 6'6 and only in his second year ever playing WR. He flashed last year and has done well when given opportunities. Easy to see why they would not want to cut him.

McKissic provides a ton of flexibility at this point in time. With Lock coming off injury, they need a reliable guy returning punts and kicks until he is comfortable enough to do so. Plus, I thought he flashed a lot as a RB and in case Prosise gets hurt (highly likely) he can provide a lot of what he brings as a 3rd down/receiving back. Easy to see why they just can't cut him right now.

Darboh. People can talk about draft capital spent not mattering all they want, but in this case it definitely helped him make the team. I though Darboh did enough in game 4 to warrant a roster spot considering where he was drafted. Top that with what has been glowing reviews in practice from coaches and teammates, it is easy to see why they just could not move on from their 3rd round pick in his rookie year.

I love Kasen and it is a bummer he didn't make it. The guy did everything he could do to earn a roster spot. And the way he played helped earn him a 53 man job with another team, so it wasn't all for not. His preseason kind of reminded me of the one Stephen Williams had with us a few years back. Dominant and making huge plays all over the field...only to be cut. If I remember correctly, Williams ended up getting claimed by Jacksonville and cut a few weeks later....but never amounted to anything in the league. Not saying the same will happen to Kasen, but this type of cut is not new for this team and it usually ends up looking OK in hindsight.