Jody Allen

[LTH]

She has unconditional love and devotion for Pete Carroll . Is that a problem ?

It seems that makes her a crappy owner to all the Pete haters..

LTH

LTH, what’s your take on Carroll?

Can he still get us another Super Bowl?

Many here do not believe so.

Winning and being at .500 may be enough for some fans but many here see .500 is the ceiling now and do not believe Carroll has what it takes to ascend.

I get it, people believe .500 ball is better than the Ken Behring years but ,500 ball isn’t enough for other fans.

I want more and I’m willing to chance it with another coach to get it.

Just my thoughts.

I think he is a really good football coach.

I don't know if he will get the Hawks to another SB I think it depends on if his team buys into what he is preaching. It feels to me like Russ is doin a bit of the ego thing same with Adams but I don't know for sure.

I'm kind of turned off not because they are losing but because It's not as interesting to me partly the media's approach, partly fans just reacting out of emotion to me its irrational. I haven't been reading like i usually do. But I like Carroll I don't buy that he should be fired, Carroll has been on a great run it has to end sometime though.. 11-12 years is almost unheard of in the NFL...

I haven't given up on this team as I expected a slow start and I think there is a chance that its going to continue until they figure it out, and they will figure it out and get hot. At some point they go through this every year. I do think they need to stay close to the Rams... I think I'm counting on the west beating each other up and keeping things close if that doesn't happen I could be wrong. But I don't think I'm wrong..

I don't think Carroll needs to be fired until he deserves it. at this point he doesn't deserve it IMO. They won the division last year and this year they have a new O coordinator and offense and its going to take some time to work it out... defensively I think they need to generate more pass rush and they have to figure out what they are going to do with the corners as well scheme wise... its really that simple. I think they are missing Reed they have to figure that out as well. seems like they are a bit banged up in the middle right now..


Thats what I think.


LTH

 

[toffee]

If you are speaking of regular season records, let's look back:

2020 12-4
2019 11-5
2018 10-6
2017 9-7
2016 10-5-1
2015 10-6
2014 12-4
2013 13-3
2012 11-5
2011 7-9
2010 7-9

Takeaways. First, the teams record basically went up and up and up from the start. Second, we haven't had a .500 or worse season for nine seasons. Third, if the argument is that Carroll is old and tired and getting worse, well, each season for the last three years they've done better than the previous season.

In short, pfft at any concept that Carroll = .500 ball, or that he's somehow "lost it".

However, here on dot net, Pete is the anti Chris that has been dead set on destroying Russ, Pete is the useless fool that kept meddling the offense which he is totally ignorant. Hey Pete is a must fire, with new Fire Pete Now topics every other week.

Russ couldn't be free unless Pete is fired, and only a free Russ can lead us to superbowl.

 

[RiverDog]

I think he (Pete) is a really good football coach.

I don't know if he will get the Hawks to another SB I think it depends on if his team buys into what he is preaching. It feels to me like Russ is doin a bit of the ego thing same with Adams but I don't know for sure.

I'm kind of turned off not because they are losing but because It's not as interesting to me partly the media's approach, partly fans just reacting out of emotion to me its irrational. I haven't been reading like i usually do. But I like Carroll I don't buy that he should be fired, Carroll has been on a great run it has to end sometime though.. 11-12 years is almost unheard of in the NFL...

I haven't given up on this team as I expected a slow start and I think there is a chance that its going to continue until they figure it out, and they will figure it out and get hot. At some point they go through this every year. I do think they need to stay close to the Rams... I think I'm counting on the west beating each other up and keeping things close if that doesn't happen I could be wrong. But I don't think I'm wrong..

I don't think Carroll needs to be fired until he deserves it. at this point he doesn't deserve it IMO. They won the division last year and this year they have a new O coordinator and offense and its going to take some time to work it out... defensively I think they need to generate more pass rush and they have to figure out what they are going to do with the corners as well scheme wise... its really that simple. I think they are missing Reed they have to figure that out as well. seems like they are a bit banged up in the middle right now..


Thats what I think.


LTH

I think Pete's a really good coach, too. But there's other factors in play besides a head coach's qualities. Sometimes the mix between head coach, ownership/management, and players just doesn't work, or rather, no longer works like it had in the past. A good example is Andy Reid, another really good coach. He coached the Eagles for 13 seasons and by most measures was very successful, winning the NFC East 6 times and going to the NFCCG 3 years in a row with one SB appearance. But the Eagles management decided that wasn't good enough and after one sub .500 season, parted ways with him even though he really didn't really "deserve" to be fired. After Reid left, the Eagles won it all a few seasons later (after a miserably failed experiment with Chip Kelly), Reid goes to Kansas City and takes that team to two SB's, winning one. Reid always was a good coach as his success in KC proves, but for one reason or another, it just wasn't working for him in Philly.

So in my mind, the question isn't so much as whether or not Pete is still a good football coach. I don't think there's any question that he's one of the best in his era. IMO it's whether or not the environment here in Seattle is still conductive to him being successful, and if the problem is the environment, which one is easier to change, the head coach or the environment?

 

[LTH]

I think he (Pete) is a really good football coach.

I don't know if he will get the Hawks to another SB I think it depends on if his team buys into what he is preaching. It feels to me like Russ is doin a bit of the ego thing same with Adams but I don't know for sure.

I'm kind of turned off not because they are losing but because It's not as interesting to me partly the media's approach, partly fans just reacting out of emotion to me its irrational. I haven't been reading like i usually do. But I like Carroll I don't buy that he should be fired, Carroll has been on a great run it has to end sometime though.. 11-12 years is almost unheard of in the NFL...

I haven't given up on this team as I expected a slow start and I think there is a chance that its going to continue until they figure it out, and they will figure it out and get hot. At some point they go through this every year. I do think they need to stay close to the Rams... I think I'm counting on the west beating each other up and keeping things close if that doesn't happen I could be wrong. But I don't think I'm wrong..

I don't think Carroll needs to be fired until he deserves it. at this point he doesn't deserve it IMO. They won the division last year and this year they have a new O coordinator and offense and its going to take some time to work it out... defensively I think they need to generate more pass rush and they have to figure out what they are going to do with the corners as well scheme wise... its really that simple. I think they are missing Reed they have to figure that out as well. seems like they are a bit banged up in the middle right now..


Thats what I think.


LTH

I think Pete's a really good coach, too. But there's other factors in play besides a head coach's qualities. Sometimes the mix between head coach, ownership/management, and players just doesn't work, or rather, no longer works like it had in the past. A good example is Andy Reid, another really good coach. He coached the Eagles for 13 seasons and by most measures was very successful, winning the NFC East 6 times and going to the NFCCG 3 years in a row with one SB appearance. But the Eagles management decided that wasn't good enough and after one sub .500 season, parted ways with him even though he really didn't really "deserve" to be fired. After Reid left, the Eagles won it all a few seasons later (after a miserably failed experiment with Chip Kelly), Reid goes to Kansas City and takes that team to two SB's, winning one. Reid always was a good coach as his success in KC proves, but for one reason or another, it just wasn't working for him in Philly.

So in my mind, the question isn't so much as whether or not Pete is still a good football coach. I don't think there's any question that he's one of the best in his era. IMO it's whether or not the environment here in Seattle is still conductive to him being successful, and if the problem is the environment, which one is easier to change, the head coach or the environment?

I hear what u are saying...when think about it I am reminded that Carroll creates the environment. It's what he prides him self on. From my perspective exploring your theory the only things that make any sense to me is are the players buying in to the premise of what Carroll is preaching. I think the majority of them are... I question if Wilson is. Is it true that Carroll has given Wilson the O or does he just have control to check out of a play call? If you listen to guys like Dunlap the environment is very Healthy so I'm not sure what kind of crisis you might be referring to... I just think these guys have some things to work out just like every other year... I Think the fans just don't understand the process this team goes through to to play at their highest level. I did listen to Bobby Wagners PC and he actually explains that process in a small degree as well he talks about how the press doesn't always tell the whole story about why a player might have a bad play....

LTH

 

[pittpnthrs]

. and lets look at GB they didn't make it to the SB last year same story with out McCarthy Rodgers can't get it done when it counts it seems.


LTH

The Packers have been in the last two division championship games. What has Pete and Seattle done lately?

 

[pittpnthrs]

If you are speaking of regular season records, let's look back:

2020 12-4
2019 11-5
2018 10-6
2017 9-7
2016 10-5-1
2015 10-6
2014 12-4
2013 13-3
2012 11-5
2011 7-9
2010 7-9

Takeaways. First, the teams record basically went up and up and up from the start. Second, we haven't had a .500 or worse season for nine seasons. Third, if the argument is that Carroll is old and tired and getting worse, well, each season for the last three years they've done better than the previous season.

In short, pfft at any concept that Carroll = .500 ball, or that he's somehow "lost it".

Looks like the team really turned it around in 2012 and have sustained that success ever since. Wonder why that is? Its almost as though it wasnt a coaching improvement but maybe a player that made the difference.

 

[LTH]

. and lets look at GB they didn't make it to the SB last year same story with out McCarthy Rodgers can't get it done when it counts it seems.


LTH

The Packers have been in the last two division championship games. What has Pete and Seattle done lately?

Really in my mind there is no difference losing the division championship game or just winning the division both teams still went home not going to the SB. same story... ALMOST going to the SB...

Just my take..


LTH

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

She has unconditional love and devotion for Pete Carroll . Is that a problem ?

It seems that makes her a crappy owner to all the Pete haters..

LTH

LTH, what’s your take on Carroll?

Can he still get us another Super Bowl?

Many here do not believe so.

Winning and being at .500 may be enough for some fans but many here see .500 is the ceiling now and do not believe Carroll has what it takes to ascend.

I get it, people believe .500 ball is better than the Ken Behring years but ,500 ball isn’t enough for other fans.

I want more and I’m willing to chance it with another coach to get it.

Just my thoughts.

I think he is a really good football coach.

I don't know if he will get the Hawks to another SB I think it depends on if his team buys into what he is preaching. It feels to me like Russ is doin a bit of the ego thing same with Adams but I don't know for sure.

I'm kind of turned off not because they are losing but because It's not as interesting to me partly the media's approach, partly fans just reacting out of emotion to me its irrational. I haven't been reading like i usually do. But I like Carroll I don't buy that he should be fired, Carroll has been on a great run it has to end sometime though.. 11-12 years is almost unheard of in the NFL...

I haven't given up on this team as I expected a slow start and I think there is a chance that its going to continue until they figure it out, and they will figure it out and get hot. At some point they go through this every year. I do think they need to stay close to the Rams... I think I'm counting on the west beating each other up and keeping things close if that doesn't happen I could be wrong. But I don't think I'm wrong..

I don't think Carroll needs to be fired until he deserves it. at this point he doesn't deserve it IMO. They won the division last year and this year they have a new O coordinator and offense and its going to take some time to work it out... defensively I think they need to generate more pass rush and they have to figure out what they are going to do with the corners as well scheme wise... its really that simple. I think they are missing Reed they have to figure that out as well. seems like they are a bit banged up in the middle right now..


Thats what I think.


LTH

I can respect that.

Good to hear you thoughts, LTH.

Thank you.

Hopefully, the defense can turn the ship.

If I had to pick one single thing to fix about this team, it’s the defense.

All else can be a lot better if the defense improves vastly.

One can hope, I guess.

We’ll see how this season plays out.

 

[RiverDog]

I hear what u are saying...when think about it I am reminded that Carroll creates the environment. It's what he prides him self on. From my perspective exploring your theory the only things that make any sense to me is are the players buying in to the premise of what Carroll is preaching. I think the majority of them are... I question if Wilson is. Is it true that Carroll has given Wilson the O or does he just have control to check out of a play call? If you listen to guys like Dunlap the environment is very Healthy so I'm not sure what kind of crisis you might be referring to... I just think these guys have some things to work out just like every other year... I Think the fans just don't understand the process this team goes through to to play at their highest level. I did listen to Bobby Wagners PC and he actually explains that process in a small degree as well he talks about how the press doesn't always tell the whole story about why a player might have a bad play....

LTH

Yeah, I've heard the comments from folks like Dunlap and Bobby, too, and there's no doubt whatsoever that Pete is a player's coach and creates a great atmosphere. But can his personality and style overcome the negative, toxic environment that is sure to grow if this team isn't winning football games? There's already been some rumblings, with a few of the DB's complaining about the scheme they're asked to play in. If we lose today, is Pete going to be able to keep the locker room from splintering?

 

[LTH]

I hear what u are saying...when think about it I am reminded that Carroll creates the environment. It's what he prides him self on. From my perspective exploring your theory the only things that make any sense to me is are the players buying in to the premise of what Carroll is preaching. I think the majority of them are... I question if Wilson is. Is it true that Carroll has given Wilson the O or does he just have control to check out of a play call? If you listen to guys like Dunlap the environment is very Healthy so I'm not sure what kind of crisis you might be referring to... I just think these guys have some things to work out just like every other year... I Think the fans just don't understand the process this team goes through to to play at their highest level. I did listen to Bobby Wagners PC and he actually explains that process in a small degree as well he talks about how the press doesn't always tell the whole story about why a player might have a bad play....

LTH

Yeah, I've heard the comments from folks like Dunlap and Bobby, too, and there's no doubt whatsoever that Pete is a player's coach and creates a great atmosphere. But can his personality and style overcome the negative, toxic environment that is sure to grow if this team isn't winning football games? There's already been some rumblings, with a few of the DB's complaining about the scheme they're asked to play in. If we lose today, is Pete going to be able to keep the locker room from splintering?

So the difference between atmosphere and environment... Hmmmm...

I would guess that Flowers isnt starting today jones is... that might be a tip?

EDIT: I don't think Pete takes the responsibility for creating astrosphere in the locker room. I think he leaves that to his vets like BW and RW... in Hind sight I think it was a poor decision to let KJ go...

LTH

 

[RiverDog]

So the difference between atmosphere and environment... Hmmmm...

I would guess that Flowers isnt starting today jones is... that might be a tip?

EDIT: I don't think Pete takes the responsibility for creating astrosphere in the locker room. I think he leaves that to his vets like BW and RW... in Hind sight I think it was a poor decision to let KJ go...

LTH

Agreed about KJ, but as you point out, we have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

Ultimately the head coach takes the responsibility for EVERYTHING, including the atmosphere.

 

[LTH]

So the difference between atmosphere and environment... Hmmmm...

I would guess that Flowers isnt starting today jones is... that might be a tip?

EDIT: I don't think Pete takes the responsibility for creating astrosphere in the locker room. I think he leaves that to his vets like BW and RW... in Hind sight I think it was a poor decision to let KJ go...

LTH

Agreed about KJ, but as you point out, we have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

Ultimately the head coach takes the responsibility for EVERYTHING, including the atmosphere.

Ultimately yes but what i meant to communicate iwas the leaders of the team control the locker room... i dont think bvb there is a problem in the locker room at this point...everything seems ok from player pc that ive seen. Of course the media is going to try to creatte as much drama as they can but thats not going to phaze the seahawk locker room this is one of the healthiest in the league... BW does meditation and yoga... come on man! Lmao!!!!

LTH

 

[RiverDog]

Ultimately yes but what i meant to communicate iwas the leaders of the team control the locker room... i dont think bvb there is a problem in the locker room at this point...everything seems ok from player pc that ive seen. Of course the media is going to try to creatte as much drama as they can but thats not going to phaze the seahawk locker room this is one of the healthiest in the league... BW does meditation and yoga... come on man! Lmao!!!!

LTH

Agreed. The point I was trying to make was that it's easy to have a great environment, atmosphere, locker room, or whatever we want to call it, when you're winning, of which Pete has done a lot of with us. But the challenge for any coach is keeping their team together in the face of adversity, something that Jim Mora was unable to do. That's the reason why Mora got fired, not so much for losing as it was that he lost the team.

Now before everyone jumps down my throat, I am NOT comparing Pete with Mora Jr. I'm simply giving an example of a coach that lost the locker room with the root cause being losing football games. Management felt, correctly as it turned out, that it was easier to change the head coach than try to fix everything else that was wrong with the team. Mora was HC for just one season, so a very valid argument could be made that he didn't deserve to get fired as it's very seldom that a HC doesn't get more than one season.

I have seen some evidence of cracks developing in the adhesiveness of this team, particularly with some members of our secondary. If we win (as we score to take a 14-7 lead), then it's likely that those cracks will mend. Winning heals all wounds. But if we lose....