Is Pete Carroll out of touch?

[LTH]

Pete wants to have a better 3rd down conversion rate and he wants to dictate the TOP and dominate and control the tempo of the game. It's what he wanted to do in GB and it was the right philosophy in that circumstance

lets look at the Rams/49er game The Rams have arguably the best pass Rush in the NFL

Sean McVay is known as a young new age coach who is among the best and most innovative O's in the league in the league. He just got his ass handed to him by the 49ers.

what did the Niners do? they RAN THE BALL 44 times for 156 average yards per rush 3.5 against one of the best D's in the league and score 31 points passing the ball something like 15-19 for 179 why did they do this because the Rams D has such a tough Pass Rush. They controlled TOP had a great 3rd down conversion rate with no turnovers they dictated the tempo of the game and smashed LA right in the mouth. exactly what Pete wanted to do against GB.

See Russ can't play a game like that because he is to worried about his numbers. his numbers are more important than winning the game... He needs to make that adjustment and it doesn't matter what team he plays for... the same issue will be present at some point...Lets hope he can make that adjustment against AZ


LTH

 

[SoulfishHawk]

At this point, is it even worth discussing Pete or Russ? Big circle, same thing over and over again.
Everything sucks. I've long since said my peace about both of them. But I do look forward to reading the comments.

That being said, and it's just MY opinion, but I would like to them move on from Pete. This team desperately needs major changes.
And how in the world is Russ a guy who only cares about numbers? Wow, he's NEVER been that kind of QB, ever.
Winning is his top priority. Why the need to create something that doesn't exist? I could take stuff more seriously if people actually would say something is their OPINION instead of just stating stuff as fact.
I honestly don't even know what to say anymore, because every thread turns the guy in to a selfish diva who doesn't care about winning and/or his team. So damn odd.
But, we all see things how we see them. I guess I'm just confused at how Russ all the sudden became Satan.
He played like crap on Sunday. Now all the sudden, he sucks :?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Yes.

But that doesn't mean a coach like Pete can't exist in the modern NFL. Pete's problem is he's trying to keep Russell happy while undermining and meddling creating a lack of continuity and identity, and that's really the disconnect and dysfunction with what we're seeing now with this team. No identity.

You wanna run the ball and play lights out defense Pete? Then trade Russell for 2-3 1st rounders, draft a young QB or go find a Tannehill or Fitzpatrick type cheap game manager. Then build your team around a bell cow back and commit 70% of the cap to the defense.

 

[LTH]

yes it is VERY relevant to the on going conversation.

Did I not just prove that running the ball is not an out dated concept?

do you think it was Pete Carrols idea to throw the ball 40 times against GB?

do you think maybe Wilson had something to do with wanting to throw the ball that many times?

do you think it's possible that Wilson checked out of the running plays?

do you think being that Wilson was coming back from injury that running the ball would have been a smart thing to do to protect Wilson from injury and let him find some rhythm of the game after not playing for several weeks?

Lets look at the Rams Seahawks play off game in 2020 when Goff had a hurt hand what did the Rams do they ran the ball 44 times they controlled the TOP, they had a decent 3rd down conversion rate and they dictated the tempo of the game. they won a play off game on the road doing exactly what Carroll wanted to do and that's what got Schotty fired.

I'm not saying Russ sucks. I'm saying football is a game of constant adjustment for coaches and players...Russ needs to make that adjustment.

Your taking this personally

yeah Russ is a great QB he is ... and any body who is saying he sucks is wrong. but if you think he doesn't have to make adjustment to his game like EVERY OTHER GREAT NFL QB I would like to know why you think that? I would like to know in detail why you think I'm wrong in what Ive stated?


LTH

 

[sdog1981]

Yes.

But that doesn't mean a coach like Pete can't exist in the modern NFL. Pete's problem is he's trying to keep Russell happy while undermining and meddling creating a lack of continuity and identity, and that's really the disconnect and dysfunction with what we're seeing now with this team. No identity.

You wanna run the ball and play lights out defense Pete? Then trade Russell for 2-3 1st rounders, draft a young QB or go find a Tannehill or Fitzpatrick type cheap game manager. Then build your team around a bell cow back and commit 70% of the cap to the defense.

I asked this same question here, after the playoff loss in Dallas. If he wants to play Pete-Ball then why pay for a QB? If he wants to commit to a QB then he needs to get out of the way of a QB-centric offense and focus on the defense. The Patriots did it once they realized they could win with Brady Throwing the ball all over the place.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Yes.

But that doesn't mean a coach like Pete can't exist in the modern NFL. Pete's problem is he's trying to keep Russell happy while undermining and meddling creating a lack of continuity and identity, and that's really the disconnect and dysfunction with what we're seeing now with this team. No identity.

You wanna run the ball and play lights out defense Pete? Then trade Russell for 2-3 1st rounders, draft a young QB or go find a Tannehill or Fitzpatrick type cheap game manager. Then build your team around a bell cow back and commit 70% of the cap to the defense.

We're NOT running the ball though, at least not with Wilson under center. That is one of our problems. In GB we tossed the ball over 40 times and we had 11 run plays drawn up. This is with a QB that had a busted hand, playing in inclement weather, in below freezing conditions. I think Pete's offense is an issue, for example running 9 straight times when Geno Smith was QB was DUMB. I also think Wilson is part of our problems too. He's leaving a lot of plays on the field and Wilson also has the worst third down conversion percentage in the league. Over the last 17 games his stateline is not good. Wilson is struggling to diagnose things at the LOS and he's not seeing wide open receivers.

Right now I think Wilson and Carroll are feeding each others worst tendencies.

 

[TwistedHusky]

I need to see that data that shows the top running teams going far in the playoffs.

Teams with the largest non-QB rushing attacks don't seem to succeed more than teams with Elite QBs.

It is also much more difficult to come back at the end of games if you rely on the rush and fall behind in close games.

The data and analytics say passing is significantly more valuable than rushing the ball, it isn't even close.

Rushing allows for a cheaper and less skilled offensive line.

It does prevent your own OL from tiring and actually tires the defense.

But I haven't seen anything where top rushing teams do much at all unless they also have a top passing team.

However, there are top passing teams that are not top rushing teams, still doing well in the playoffs.



Passing teams get every advantage. 3rd and 30? one 5 yd defensive holding penalty makes that 1st down.

Meanwhile, good luck running the ball at all if you get called for an iffy hold and suddenly are faced with 1st or 2nd and 20.


In reality you should be passing twice as much as running. Easily.

Rushing gets you very little in today's NFL, especially in the playoffs. It is completely and utterly overvalued.

If you are a top passing team with an average defense? you are likely still a playoff threat.

What if you are a top rushing team with an average defense?



PS LTH you don't prove that running the ball is a good idea, you proved that running the ball against the Rams is a good idea - which everyone knows.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Just my opinion, but they often REFUSE to adjust. They called 40 plus passing plays. That's just insane.
Collins was having some success.

 

[LTH]

Yes.

But that doesn't mean a coach like Pete can't exist in the modern NFL. Pete's problem is he's trying to keep Russell happy while undermining and meddling creating a lack of continuity and identity, and that's really the disconnect and dysfunction with what we're seeing now with this team. No identity.

You wanna run the ball and play lights out defense Pete? Then trade Russell for 2-3 1st rounders, draft a young QB or go find a Tannehill or Fitzpatrick type cheap game manager. Then build your team around a bell cow back and commit 70% of the cap to the defense.

from my perspective I agree with some of what you are saying yes they are lacking identity I agree with that statement but what I don't agree with necessarily Trading Russ untill all options are played out... Truthfully Russ needs to make some adjustments because it doesn't matter who he plays for at some point he will have the same issue just like Brett Favre just like matt Hasselbeck just like Eli manning every great QB has to make adjustment to their game you can not win in the NFL consistently throwing into double coverage because you have gotten away with it in the past teams are going to adjust and if you don't adjust with them your toast and it doesn't matter what team you play for the rules apply to everyone

if you look at it from Pete Carrols perspective how unreasonable is it to expect your QB to follow a game plan? why would Carroll being in his final years want to get rid of one of the greatest QB's in NFL history? He is better off trying to get Wilson to fall in line... as there isn't many QB's that are good enough to win the SB...

I don't think Carroll wants to always be a dominate run team. i think it is determined by what the D he is facing is showing...,. Bobby wagner said it best he said this is a copy cat league and D's are going to trip you up with the same scheme unless you learn to stop it... So if a D is showing two high safety's you either run the ball or take what area the D is giving up with the passing game until the D again adjusts to what you are doing offensively. if your running the ball then it usually means they will bring the safety's down to support the run. If Pete thinks there is a match up on the out side then he has no problem turning Russ lose... So its really not a set thing it just depends on what the D trends are against the hawks...


LTH

 

[SoulfishHawk]

That's what is confusing about Pete. He claims to be a run first, pound the rock coach. Then in quite a few games he just abandons the run, and doesn't even try. OR, it's working, and he still changes. But, we all know who gets blame for it.

It just feels like the game has passed him by. He was a hell of a coach for a very long time. But this team needs an infusion of change, maybe some youth. Plus, they need someone who not only doesn't think it's 1975, but someone who ADJUSTS in game. I can't be the only who who gets effin pissed off watching him get outcoached and out adjusted so often. I'm not saying he isn't a good coach, obviously his is a good coach and a hell of a motivator. But, his system and way of doing things just isn't working anymore, and hasn't for a long while.
And let's be real, his time management is horrific.

 

[keasley45]

Yes.

But that doesn't mean a coach like Pete can't exist in the modern NFL. Pete's problem is he's trying to keep Russell happy while undermining and meddling creating a lack of continuity and identity, and that's really the disconnect and dysfunction with what we're seeing now with this team. No identity.

You wanna run the ball and play lights out defense Pete? Then trade Russell for 2-3 1st rounders, draft a young QB or go find a Tannehill or Fitzpatrick type cheap game manager. Then build your team around a bell cow back and commit 70% of the cap to the defense.

This. But I think Tannehill is a little better than Fitz, a little more than a manager and the ideal fit for what would work best here (the prototype)

 

[LTH]

Just my opinion, but they often REFUSE to adjust. They called 40 plus passing plays. That's just insane.
Collins was having some success.

Right! and you think it was Carroll's idea to throw 40 passes ? listen to his PC the guy was livid... Russ coming off injury does that make since from a coaching perspective? wouldn't it be better to run the ball and get Wilson into rhythm slowly protecting his hand?


LTH

 

[Rat]

No, it's the children who are wrong.

 

[keasley45]

Yes.

But that doesn't mean a coach like Pete can't exist in the modern NFL. Pete's problem is he's trying to keep Russell happy while undermining and meddling creating a lack of continuity and identity, and that's really the disconnect and dysfunction with what we're seeing now with this team. No identity.

You wanna run the ball and play lights out defense Pete? Then trade Russell for 2-3 1st rounders, draft a young QB or go find a Tannehill or Fitzpatrick type cheap game manager. Then build your team around a bell cow back and commit 70% of the cap to the defense.

And, I honestly think Pete is shocked that Russ has pushed his agenda as far as he has because I honestly think Pete sees Russ's flaws and is befuddled that the guy is insisting that he wants to be Brady-like. I think Pete genuinely looks at the situation and sees it for what it is... Russ can be magical, but is flawed in a way that he isnt capable of doing it all on his own like Rodgers or Brees is, and that he has the ideal situation here... but Russ now hates it.

Pete see the benefit of Russ just being Russ and that it's ok that he doesn't do certain things expertly, because his Mantra is complimentary ball. Russ has experienced enough magic that he's convinced he's above the system and doesn't want to be a compliment.

But no, I think Pete can win here right not with a QB ( whether Russ or someone else) who is efficient, mobile, takes care of the ball, and is capable of the occasional big play.

I think a guy like the upstart WFT qb would be intriguing to Pete.

 

[hawker84]

What Pete says, and what he does game day, never seem to be the same. He's been saying run first, control tempo for years now but will be the first to call a time out with 12 minutes left in the 1st quarter and then come out and run the ball on 3rd and 8 because they called bubble screens on and jet sweepson 1st and 2nd downs... so I'm sorry, but yes to me, Pete is no longer in tune with today's game.

 

[keasley45]

What Pete says, and what he does game day, never seem to be the same. He's been saying run first, control tempo for years now but will be the first to call a time out with 12 minutes left in the 1st quarter and then come out and run the ball on 3rd and 8 because they called bubble screens on and jet sweepson 1st and 2nd downs... so I'm sorry, but yes to me, Pete is no longer in tune with today's game.

Pete might call the timeout, but he doesn't call the plays.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Thank you Hawker, you put it perfectly. Sometimes it's hard to even explain how frustrating and inconsistent he is. As far as what he says vs. what he actually does.

 

[Jville]

Yes.

But that doesn't mean a coach like Pete can't exist in the modern NFL. Pete's problem is he's trying to keep Russell happy while undermining and meddling creating a lack of continuity and identity, and that's really the disconnect and dysfunction with what we're seeing now with this team. No identity.

You wanna run the ball and play lights out defense Pete? Then trade Russell for 2-3 1st rounders, draft a young QB or go find a Tannehill or Fitzpatrick type cheap game manager. Then build your team around a bell cow back and commit 70% of the cap to the defense.

from my perspective I agree with some of what you are saying yes they are lacking identity I agree with that statement but what I don't agree with necessarily Trading Russ untill all options are played out... Truthfully Russ needs to make some adjustments because it doesn't matter who he plays for at some point he will have the same issue just like Brett Favre just like matt Hasselbeck just like Eli manning every great QB has to make adjustment to their game you can not win in the NFL consistently throwing into double coverage because you have gotten away with it in the past teams are going to adjust and if you don't adjust with them your toast and it doesn't matter what team you play for the rules apply to everyone

if you look at it from Pete Carrols perspective how unreasonable is it to expect your QB to follow a game plan? why would Carroll being in his final years want to get rid of one of the greatest QB's in NFL history? He is better off trying to get Wilson to fall in line... as there isn't many QB's that are good enough to win the SB...

I don't think Carroll wants to always be a dominate run team. i think it is determined by what the D he is facing is showing...,. Bobby wagner said it best he said this is a copy cat league and D's are going to trip you up with the same scheme unless you learn to stop it... So if a D is showing two high safety's you either run the ball or take what area the D is giving up with the passing game until the D again adjusts to what you are doing offensively. if your running the ball then it usually means they will bring the safety's down to support the run. If Pete thinks there is a match up on the out side then he has no problem turning Russ lose... So its really not a set thing it just depends on what the D trends are against the hawks...


LTH

I think that's accurate.

I do think the players on the field define the scope of adjustments realistically available. The current quarterback is far more comfortable making run audibles with an exceptional running back. Without that, the running game can slow to a crawl or be abandoned all together. And, Russell can still slice and dice man coverage with confidence and speed. But, against zone and mixed coverage he continues to look hesitant and slow to me. Deployed personnel define what adjustments have a reasonable chance for success. After 10 years, I think opponents have adjusted and are schooling us on what can work to slow down Russell and keep the offense out of balance.

It has been instructive.

 

[toffee]

Yes.

But that doesn't mean a coach like Pete can't exist in the modern NFL. Pete's problem is he's trying to keep Russell happy while undermining and meddling creating a lack of continuity and identity, and that's really the disconnect and dysfunction with what we're seeing now with this team. No identity.

You wanna run the ball and play lights out defense Pete? Then trade Russell for 2-3 1st rounders, draft a young QB or go find a Tannehill or Fitzpatrick type cheap game manager. Then build your team around a bell cow back and commit 70% of the cap to the defense.

from my perspective I agree with some of what you are saying yes they are lacking identity I agree with that statement but what I don't agree with necessarily Trading Russ untill all options are played out... Truthfully Russ needs to make some adjustments because it doesn't matter who he plays for at some point he will have the same issue just like Brett Favre just like matt Hasselbeck just like Eli manning every great QB has to make adjustment to their game you can not win in the NFL consistently throwing into double coverage because you have gotten away with it in the past teams are going to adjust and if you don't adjust with them your toast and it doesn't matter what team you play for the rules apply to everyone

if you look at it from Pete Carrols perspective how unreasonable is it to expect your QB to follow a game plan? why would Carroll being in his final years want to get rid of one of the greatest QB's in NFL history? He is better off trying to get Wilson to fall in line... as there isn't many QB's that are good enough to win the SB...

I don't think Carroll wants to always be a dominate run team. i think it is determined by what the D he is facing is showing...,. Bobby wagner said it best he said this is a copy cat league and D's are going to trip you up with the same scheme unless you learn to stop it... So if a D is showing two high safety's you either run the ball or take what area the D is giving up with the passing game until the D again adjusts to what you are doing offensively. if your running the ball then it usually means they will bring the safety's down to support the run. If Pete thinks there is a match up on the out side then he has no problem turning Russ lose... So its really not a set thing it just depends on what the D trends are against the hawks...


LTH

I disagree with you gentlemen that Russell needs to change and adapt. He has changed in recent years. He was in this game manager pigeon hole that Pete designed for him, now, he has blossomed into Mr. Unlimited with a new MO: Let Russell Cook.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

 

[John63]

What Pete says, and what he does game day, never seem to be the same. He's been saying run first, control tempo for years now but will be the first to call a time out with 12 minutes left in the 1st quarter and then come out and run the ball on 3rd and 8 because they called bubble screens on and jet sweepson 1st and 2nd downs... so I'm sorry, but yes to me, Pete is no longer in tune with today's game.

THIS ^^^^