Best draft in years

[WarHawks]

I want us to try to get a quarterback of the future, but not with a high pick. We would be set at that position for a decade, but it's a crap shoot.

You get what you pay for.

 

[CPHawk]

You get what you pay for.

Chicago has drafted their qb of the future 3 times in the last decade now. You don’t always get what you pay for. Sometimes you pay for a Ferrari but get a Land Rover with 200k miles on it.

 

[WarHawks]

Chicago has drafted their qb of the future 3 times in the last decade now. You don’t always get what you pay for. Sometimes you pay for a Ferrari but get a Land Rover with 200k miles on it.

True. It's 50/50 at best. But if you're not swinging for the fences, you're never going to hit a home run. Nothing but singles and walks doesn't win you a world series. No risk, no reward.

 

[NoGain]

True. It's 50/50 at best. But if you're not swinging for the fences, you're never going to hit a home run. Nothing but singles and walks doesn't win you a world series. No risk, no reward.

Yup. From all accounts I heard, JS wanted to move on from RW three years or so before we traded him. But since that time, no QB drafted, and all three QB's of relevance (Geno, Lock, and Howell) were pretty much castoffs from other teams.

Now, we'll never exactly know for sure how much PC hamstrung JS from making more aggressive moves for a potential replacement for RW in the draft. But he's in charge now, and probably was more so in the last year or two before PC got fired.

JS is definitely on the clock now about getting a potential QBOTF in the next draft. It is clearly the number one concern for him now. No more excuses.

 

[JayhawkMike]

You like the draft: "Best Draft in forever!!" even though they haven't played a round - Applause, Pats on the back, Kudos

You don't like the draft: "Too many reaches, projects, not filling positions of need" - Boooos Attacks and "you can't judge them yet they haven't even played"

I don't know yet and haven't said a bad word but the personal attacks for not having a groupthink reaction around here are sad to see.

 

[NoGain]

Here's a what-if example just for kicks about the Seahawks and drafting a QBOTF. Now, by all accounts JS was very enamored by Patrick Mahomes and the thought of drafting him in the 2017 draft. We had the 26th pick in the draft that year. KC had the 27th pick in the draft.

--KC trades their 27th pick that year; their 3rd round pick that year; and their #1 pick the next year to move up to the 10th spot where they drafted Mahomes

So it seems pretty clear that the Hawks could have made the same deal had they been aggressive about a QB JS was very enamored by.

Instead, we traded down a few times from the 26th pick and got Malik McDowell, Lano Hill, Tedric Thompson, Mike Tyson, and Chris Carson; our third round pick was Shaq Griffen, and our #1 pick the next year was Penny.

The only point being made here is that it's not always some unrealistic pipe dream about being aggressive about getting your QBOTF in the draft.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I'm not at all sold on Olu. He played in just 4 games last season, didn't perform well in the limited time he did play, couldn't beat out a journeyman in Evan Brown on an offensive line ranked in the bottom 5 in the league, and now we're tossing him in as a starter without any real competition.

Having said that, I like the way we approached our draft. There was no way that we were going to fill all the holes on our squad without having to compromise on the strategy of taking the BPA.

If we're gonna do the PFF stuff, then sure. Olu didn't perform well.

He did fine in reality, though, for his first action.

I'm not sold on him as a stud, but getting a presumptive starter in the fifth is still more than can be expected from most fifth round picks.

 

[IndyHawk]

True, but you can’t win the lottery if you don’t buy a ticket.

Seahawks haven’t drafted a QB in 12 years. Are we going on forever playing with Lock, Smith, Howell QBs cast off by other teams?

Yes we are,it's how you avoid overpaying a QB.
Rinse and repeat.

 

[RiverDog]

If we're gonna do the PFF stuff, then sure. Olu didn't perform well.

He did fine in reality, though, for his first action.

I'm not sold on him as a stud, but getting a presumptive starter in the fifth is still more than can be expected from most fifth round picks.

The "PFF stuff" is the gold standard when it comes to player performance appraisal. I'm not saying that it should be looked to as the ultimate authority, but they're the best at what they do, and in most cases, their analysis passes the eye test (see Jamal Adams and Quandre Diggs).

Besides that, just what are you basing your statement on that Olu did "really fine"? Outside of special teams, he only played in 4 games.

Olu and our first pick in this draft, Byron Murphy, are both relatively the same size, ie 6'1" 300 lbs or thereabouts. Murphy ran the 40 in 4.87 seconds and had a 33" vertical jump. Olu ran the 40 in 5.38 and had a 29" vertical jump. That probably says more about Murphy than it does Olu, but it's a demonstration of what kind of challenges Olu faces. He's not a road grader, tends to get manhandled in the run game because he's not very athletic.

IMO Olu is still very much an unknown quantity, and what little evidence we have isn't good. That 5th round presumptive starter tag is a misnomer.

 

[WarHawks]

Here's a what-if example just for kicks about the Seahawks and drafting a QBOTF. Now, by all accounts JS was very enamored by Patrick Mahomes and the thought of drafting him in the 2017 draft. We had the 26th pick in the draft that year. KC had the 27th pick in the draft.

--KC trades their 27th pick that year; their 3rd round pick that year; and their #1 pick the next year to move up to the 10th spot where they drafted Mahomes

So it seems pretty clear that the Hawks could have made the same deal had they been aggressive about a QB JS was very enamored by.

Instead, we traded down a few times from the 26th pick and got Malik McDowell, Lano Hill, Tedric Thompson, Mike Tyson, and Chris Carson; our third round pick was Shaq Griffen, and our #1 pick the next year was Penny.

The only point being made here is that it's not always some unrealistic pipe dream about being aggressive about getting your QBOTF in the draft.

Bingo! 100% agree. And that wasn't trading the farm to get to the top three either. That was #9. And look how it paid off for them. Wow.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Howell was on a piece of shit team.
He's not him, but just look back at Peyton's first year numbers.
Change of scenery can do wonders.
As we were positioned this year, we're better off with Howell's experience and potential upside vs. whichever QB we could have drafted with his pick.

To start with Howell was a 5th round pick. There's a reason for that. Again, i'm not disagreeing with you that the Hawks shouldn't have concentrated on a QB this year, it's just I can't believe that people are claiming that Howell is the QBotF. He isn't.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Schneider is not an idiot.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Leaf

Never said he was and I actually believe that he has a great eye for QB talent. Having said that, I don't think Schneider believes Howell is QBotF material either. He's a cheap backup to Smith with actual NFL experience. That's all.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I think JS sees otherwise. Howell demonstrated fortitude and grit in tough games against tough teams. He's displayed a will and ability that might blossom. Almost all qb choices are expensive and boom/bust, I like Howell in 1-2 years.

I don't think JS does. Unfortunately fortitude and grit doesn't overcome lack of talent and football IQ.

 

[RiverDog]

To start with Howell was a 5th round pick. There's a reason for that. Again, i'm not disagreeing with you that the Hawks shouldn't have concentrated on a QB this year, it's just I can't believe that people are claiming that Howell is the QBotF. He isn't.

He's an experiment or project, that's for sure. But I'm pretty sure that JS sees enough in him to give him a shot to prove himself at some point in his tenure with us. Personally, I'm not very optimistic, but he'll get his chance.

IMO Schneider anticipated that all the quarterbacks worthy of a 'QBOTF' designation would be gone by the time our pick came around and that trading up to get one wasn't a good option given our lack of capital, not to mention it's something he rarely does.

 

[Maelstrom787]

The "PFF stuff" is the gold standard when it comes to player performance appraisal. I'm not saying that it should be looked to as the ultimate authority, but they're the best at what they do, and in most cases, their analysis passes the eye test (see Jamal Adams and Quandre Diggs).

Besides that, just what are you basing your statement on that Olu did "really fine"? Outside of special teams, he only played in 4 games.

Olu and our first pick in this draft, Byron Murphy, are both relatively the same size, ie 6'1" 300 lbs or thereabouts. Murphy ran the 40 in 4.87 seconds and had a 33" vertical jump. Olu ran the 40 in 5.38 and had a 29" vertical jump. That probably says more about Murphy than it does Olu, but it's a demonstration of what kind of challenges Olu faces. He's not a road grader, tends to get manhandled in the run game because he's not very athletic.

IMO Olu is still very much an unknown quantity, and what little evidence we have isn't good. That 5th round presumptive starter tag is a misnomer.

It didn't pass the eye test with Diggs. The eye test with a film angle showed that Diggs was largely being screwed by having to cover half of Wagner's assignment in addition to his own. His only glaring issue was the occasional missed tackle, but he was never great at that and he was being put in a position to do it far more than he should've been.

PFF grades are unsound. Their grades, especially on the offensive line and defense as a whole, are more misleading than illuminating. The grades for offensive skill positions are much better.

Olu's athletic testing was fairly good. Slow 40, but above average vertical (60th percentile for centers), elite board (89th percentile), and his 29 reps were 72nd percentile for centers with longer than average arms. He's also 6'3", not 6'1".

All that to say that his athletic profile is fine and not any more of a concern against today's breed of IDL than most other centers int he league, and all of THAT to say that he is a worthy "plus" for that draft so far based on his draft slot. If he were a day 2 pick I'd disagree with that.

 

[xray]

I don't think JS does. Unfortunately fortitude and grit doesn't overcome lack of talent and football IQ.

Howell is a crash test dummy . WTF was JS thinking ?

 

[Kamcussionator]

Oh noes! We can't make it to the Super Bowl because we don't have an elite backup quarterback!

LOL

 

[themunn]

Then he would have been a bust. Again, i've said Seattle wasn't in any position to search for their QBotF this draft, but it sure isn't going to be Howell. The guy has played in the league already and has thrown as many int's as td's. Great QB's don't do that. He's not the QB that's going to take Seattle to the next level.

Seattle is going to have to figure out how to get in position to draft their QB and I don't know how that's going to work out, but it needs to be in the next couple years.

Peyton Manning and Matt Stafford are 2 guys who I can think of off the top of my head who threw more interceptions than TDs in their first year in the league, both went on to win a superbowl.

Howell is a different case in that he effectively redshirted a year before starting, but those 2 were first overall picks compared to Howell's 5th round, so you'd have expected them to be more ready (Manning actually played 4 years in college to Stafford/Howell's 3).

Not saying by any means that indicates Howell is the next coming of Peyton Manning of course, but like both of those guys he was a guy playing in a dumpster team with little offensive talent around him. I don't think it's fair to rule him out. That said I don't expect to see much of him while Geno is here who I think still has what it takes to take us all the way - providing his supporting cast stays healthy (Geno last season was night and day with Cross/Lucas playing).

 

[RiverDog]

It didn't pass the eye test with Diggs. The eye test with a film angle showed that Diggs was largely being screwed by having to cover half of Wagner's assignment in addition to his own. His only glaring issue was the occasional missed tackle, but he was never great at that and he was being put in a position to do it far more than he should've been.

PFF grades are unsound. Their grades, especially on the offensive line and defense as a whole, are more misleading than illuminating. The grades for offensive skill positions are much better.

Olu's athletic testing was fairly good. Slow 40, but above average vertical (60th percentile for centers), elite board (89th percentile), and his 29 reps were 72nd percentile for centers with longer than average arms. He's also 6'3", not 6'1".

All that to say that his athletic profile is fine and not any more of a concern against today's breed of IDL than most other centers int he league, and all of THAT to say that he is a worthy "plus" for that draft so far based on his draft slot. If he were a day 2 pick I'd disagree with that.

You can't attribute Diggs' coverage issues to one linebacker. Besides, his coverage performance was just one of his problems. He received a nearly identical grade for his run support. He was one of the worst tacklers in our secondary, and that certainly met my eye test, and apparently Macdonald's, too, as he was released last month, and there's been no talk of resigning him.

You can kill the messenger if you don't like what he's telling you, but the fact is that PFF is used by more scouts, pundits, et al than any other similar organization.

Here's what B/R listed as Olu's weaknesses, which is eerily similar to how PFF graded out his 2023 performance:

— Smaller stature with below-average play strength and power.
— Struggles to consistently root his feet, absorb force and anchor when isolated against the bull rush.
— Will get stood up and flattened at the point of attack when asked to uproot or reach defensive tackles without help.
— Inconsistent set points on shaded interior rushers with tardy strike timing that leaves him vulnerable to losing quickly across his face.
— Lack of position flex limits versatility in the NFL.

There's a reason why Olu dropped into the 5th round despite his boat load of college awards.

But we'll see. He hasn't seen enough offensive snaps to get a good handle on how he'll stand up to NFL competition. It seems as if our new regime is going to pencil him in as a starter as we have just one other pure center on the roster, so we'll soon find out. I'm just not comfortable putting our eggs in his basket.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Howell is a crash test dummy . WTF was JS thinking ?

I believe he was thinking that he's a cheap backup QB. He would be right.