Elephant in the Room

[SoulfishHawk]

Well, I guess Bobby had 19 meaningless tackles. He clearly was the problem yesterday

 

[Maelstrom787]

Well, I guess Bobby had 19 meaningless tackles. He clearly was the problem yesterday

His coverage was a big issue. He can't move well anymore. He can eat tackles, but they can't trust their mike to cover, and that's gonna hurt all year.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

19 tackles, sounds like he did his job. He's obviously lost a little step, but how many LB's at his age are still what they used to be?
On the list of who's to blame yesterday, he's way down towards the bottom, compared to many of his teammates.

 

[Throwdown]

Bobby was getting killed. It was like a watching my dog die type of sadness.

And I have a hard time blaming Geno for the bullshit calls Waldron was giving. Who in the hell goes pass happy when both your starting tackles go down? And Walker was having a great game! He barely touched the ball in the 2nd half.

 

[RiverDog]

Lighten up, Francis. Geezus man. All I said was he had 19 tackles. Get over yourself.

Well, it's a little hard to lighten up on the Monday following a beetch slapping on opening day on our home field at the hands of a supposedly inferior team after you've been told for the past 6 months how great we're going to be. If I'm cranky, it means that I care.

But to your point about Bobby's tackles. The implication that I took from your statement was that because of his 19 tackles it meant that he played an acceptable game as you mentioned him in the same breath that you said 'not everyone sucked.'

 

[strohmin]

Tackles are arguably the most deceiving statistic that they keep. Bobby's 19 tackles were a direct result of our sorry defense, of which he is supposed to be the leader of, having to be on the field twice as long as the Rams defense was. The Rams ran 32 more plays than we did. Tackles are all about opportunity. Bobby was out of position on a number of those short yardage plays. He didn't play well. He's a linebacker that's supposed to be making plays in the hole, not 5 yards downfield.

So please, don't tell me how many tackles Bobby had. It's completely meaningless unless it's put into some sort of context.

I dont understand how you can blame Bobby and not the scheme. If he is "out of position" then it has to be the scheme. He played like a hall of famer up untill last year and all of a sudden hes out of position. Clint Hurt hasn't proven anything while Bobby is a first ballot hall of famer. We said the same thing about Cody Barton last year. Poor guy was probably just doing what Clint told him and ended up looking like the worst linebacker to ever play the position. I dont think blaming the players in this situation is warranted.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I dont understand how you can blame Bobby and not the scheme. If he is "out of position" then it has to be the scheme. He played like a hall of famer up untill last year and all of a sudden hes out of position. Clint Hurt hasn't proven anything while Bobby is a first ballot hall of famer. We said the same thing about Cody Barton last year. Poor guy was probably just doing what Clint told him and ended up looking like the worst linebacker to ever play the position. I dont think blaming the players in this situation is warranted.

Barton actually pulled off a lot of underrated stuff in coverage. Bobby's legs have been shot since 2021, though.

 

[SNDavidson]

Bobby was getting killed. It was like a watching my dog die type of sadness.

And I have a hard time blaming Geno for the bullshit calls Waldron was giving. Who in the hell goes pass happy when both your starting tackles go down? And Walker was having a great game! He barely touched the ball in the 2nd half.

scheme and those within the scheme man, cmon, think beyond your first thought

 

[Okieseahawk]

Down both our tackles and Walker got a whopping 3 carries in the second half.
Multiple issues from that alone.
TOP was absurd too.
There is so much blame to spread all around here, this is an incredibly awful thread.

Down both our tackles and Walker got a whopping 3 carries in the second half.
Multiple issues from that alone.
TOP was absurd too.
There is so much blame to spread all around here, this is an incredibly awful thread.

 

[RiverDog]

I dont understand how you can blame Bobby and not the scheme. If he is "out of position" then it has to be the scheme. He played like a hall of famer up untill last year and all of a sudden hes out of position. Clint Hurt hasn't proven anything while Bobby is a first ballot hall of famer. We said the same thing about Cody Barton last year. Poor guy was probably just doing what Clint told him and ended up looking like the worst linebacker to ever play the position. I dont think blaming the players in this situation is warranted.

Who said that I wasn't blaming the scheme? All I said was that Bobby didn't play a good game, and I stand by that assessment.

And yes, Bobby is a first ballot HOF'er, no question about it. But he's not playing, and hasn't been playing, at an HOF level, not anywhere close. If he was, we wouldn't have released him last year and the Rams wouldn't have let him walk this season. He's lost a step.

And let me get this straight: You're laying the entire defensive performance on the coaching staff and giving all our players a pass? That the reason why we didn't even come close to sacking Stafford was all due to scheme, that our DL's aren't expected to beat their man unless they are in the proper scheme? That DB's aren't expected to contest a receiver unless they are in the right scheme?

There's lots of blame to be shared for yesterday's abortion: Offense, defense, coaches, players.

 

[Okieseahawk]

We sucked from top to bottom. A true disgrace for all to see. This one stings bad.

It starts with leadership, game planning and on to execution.

We also had some key injuries that could not be overcome.

Is it the end of the season? no.

Does it happen to other teams? yes.

I think we are all disappointed, but it’s too early to fire Pete and start questioning everything, including Geno and the defense.

It will be interesting to see if the coaching staff loses the team or if we will see incremental improvement.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Bobby "played fine"? Are we talking about Bobby Wagner, a first ballot HOF'er and the veteran team leader, the quarterback of our defense, a defense that allowed 11-17 3rd down conversions and a 2:1 TOP advantage "played fine"?

Sorry, man, I agree with you most of the time, but not on this occasion. Although I wouldn't lay the majority or even a high percentage of the blame on Bobby, he by definition did not "play fine", and knowing Bobby, he'd say that he wasn't satisfied with his play, either.

Bobby is also the most credible player on our team, essentially a player coach, and is one that we were counting on to bring some leadership to the team. It's a trait that we were unquestionably lacking yesterday.

If you expect Wagner to play at his HOF level of 4-5 years ago?

That's on you dude, you need to lower your expectations. This is the same Bobby we saw two years ago. Good, sometimes great.....but mostly "played fine."

If you expected more, that's on you. Not him.

 

[strohmin]

Who said that I wasn't blaming the scheme? All I said was that Bobby didn't play a good game, and I stand by that assessment.

And yes, Bobby is a first ballot HOF'er, no question about it. But he's not playing, and hasn't been playing, at an HOF level, not anywhere close. If he was, we wouldn't have released him last year and the Rams wouldn't have let him walk this season. He's lost a step.

And let me get this straight: You're laying the entire defensive performance on the coaching staff and giving all our players a pass? That the reason why we didn't even come close to sacking Stafford was all due to scheme, that our DL's aren't expected to beat their man unless they are in the proper scheme? That DB's aren't expected to contest a receiver unless they are in the right scheme?

There's lots of blame to be shared for yesterday's abortion: Offense, defense, coaches, players.

If a few players suck then thats entirely on the player themselves. If the entire team sucked then that falls entirely on the coach. There isnt a single player that I can think of that played good yesterday. They all played equally horrific. When that happens, it has to be the coaching.

 

[hawkfan68]

Who said that I wasn't blaming the scheme? All I said was that Bobby didn't play a good game, and I stand by that assessment.

And yes, Bobby is a first ballot HOF'er, no question about it. But he's not playing, and hasn't been playing, at an HOF level, not anywhere close. If he was, we wouldn't have released him last year and the Rams wouldn't have let him walk this season. He's lost a step.

And let me get this straight: You're laying the entire defensive performance on the coaching staff and giving all our players a pass? That the reason why we didn't even come close to sacking Stafford was all due to scheme, that our DL's aren't expected to beat their man unless they are in the proper scheme? That DB's aren't expected to contest a receiver unless they are in the right scheme?

There's lots of blame to be shared for yesterday's abortion: Offense, defense, coaches, players.

He was fine last season with the Rams. So this leads me to believe that what the Seahawks are asking him to do is probably not aligned with his current skillset. Maybe they are asking too much of him. I think they should let Brooks and Bush play coverage. Let Bobby stop the run and disguise blitz or pass rush. He did a great job of blowing up runs (TFL) in the first half. Brooks and Bush are younger, faster than Bobby. Seahawks coaches need to do a better job of utilizing their players' strengths. They need to stop pushing a square peg into a round hole.

 

[strohmin]

He was fine last season with the Rams. So this leads me to believe that what the Seahawks are asking him to do is probably not aligned with his current skillset. Maybe they are asking too much of him. I think they should let Brooks and Bush play coverage. Let Bobby stop the run and disguise blitz or pass rush. He did a great job of blowing up runs (TFL) in the first half. Brooks and Bush are younger, faster than Bobby. Seahawks coaches need to do a better job of utilizing their players' strengths. They need to stop pushing a square peg into a round hole.

Completely agree with this. Pete is the same person who traded for one of the best pass catching tight ends in Jimmy Graham and tried to make him a blocking tight end.

 

[Scout]

No LB should be in coverage at against a WR which is why the Rams will take that mismatch all day everyday.

 

[xray]

Football is a team sport ; but in this particular time in the NFL ; QBs are the center piece ; and they better be good...consistency is a must . The Hawks will never ride Geno to the promised land . Bank it

 

[xray]

Geno got paid and so far his production is awesome ! Good for him !

 

[TwistedHusky]

When one or even a handful of players struggle, it's probably on the players.

When the entire defense struggles, the blame likely falls on the coaching staff instead. The players might even get a pass.

The job of a coach is to put players in a position to succeed. If the players are instead being put in a position to fail, it is much harder to play your way out of that.

I am still trying to wrap my head around the 3 total yds of offense in the 2nd half thing. Since you get 3 yds just running up the middle on the first play of the game...
But historical offensive failure aside, the defense was a sieve. All of our players on defense seemed to regress on one afternoon. It's probably not the players but more likely the plan.

 

[hoxrox]

I don't care if our 2 tackles went out. Smith is being paid to QB this team. Improvise, overcome, and adapt.

Bookend tackles really do matter though.