Cowherd: Seattle Owes Russ

[semiahmoo]

Wilson's biggest problem is coaches and fans that can't accept the way he plays the game. Hopefully we will win this week by a score of 20 stay in the pockets to 10 stay in the pockets.

Do I wish Wilson would develop his presnap read ability and ability to throw with more anticipation based off of those reads? Sure. Due to his history of being able to extend plays, with his (elusiveness and quickness, not speed), he tends to gravitate towards seeing a fully open target as opposed to throwing to spots earlier in the down based on coverage and looks. Things that guys like Brady and Rodgers are very proficient at. He also shies away from the check down a little too often because of this play extending ability.

This absolute obsession with demanding he stand flat footed in the pocket "like all the good ones" is specifically robbing him of what makes him different (and better than a lot of other guys in the league). If I were working with him, I'd be moving his ass all over the place, while specifically working on breaking his habit of turning his back while moving. That's usually where he goes wrong, missing guys while scrambling because he dips deep instead of lateral or forward movement creating his time. If you want him in the pocket, foolishly robbing him of one of his special gifts, start hiring West Coast Coordinators, not play action guys. Need more coaches that coach the man, not their "system".

Without rewatching the game, I think I saw 2?, read option looks, one very specifically that I remember put him in a staring contest with the chubbiest Outside Linebacker on Denver's squad. He so thoroughly stuffed the ball in the RB's gut that I have no question it was a "read look" and not a "read check". That's a piss poor way to utilize a man of his ability.

My highschool mediocrity at the QB position back in the day taught me this, at 6' 3" plus, and taller than most all of my linemen, I still needed vision lanes and even then, some throws are purely trust, in your presnap read and in your receiver getting to his spot. The only QB's in the NFL that see it all must be genetically related to snails. Humans typically aren't known to be gifted with eye stalks. In those moments of blindness, I sure wished my cement feet worked a little better than they did...

P.S. ..and where in the hell are the RPO's. Carson Wentz can do it but not Wilson? NOBODY would be more suited, but POCKET! RUN BALL! THROW DEEP! ....sigh

First of all, being a good pocket passer is not "standing flat footed in the pocket". There is a lot going on there at the highest level of pocket passing. If a Quarterback is just standing there flat footed they are going to get Carr'd. Pocket manipulation is about setting up blocks and making subtle little movements to avoid pass rushers. This is how an immobile QB such as Brady or old man Manning bought time and beat pass rushers. The second component is the pre-snap read. This is where QB's make adjustments, and survey the field to see if they see openings. The next skill in a pocket passers repertoire is what many refer to as "throwing their guy open". You rely on your WR to run a good route, and you throw to where your receiver is going to be. If you get the proper read on the defense during the presnap this is very hard to defend against. This is how QB's like Brady are consistently able to elevate even mediocre WR's. The last and most important skill is the internal clock. A QB has to feel when pressure is bearing down on them if they want to be a successful pocket passer. If things get dicey either you default to your checkdown, run if you have a lane to do so, or throw the ball away.

Russell Wilson has failed to develop most of these skills throughout his career. He doesn't know how to move around in the pocket, and often times he walks himself into sacks. I've seen him try to pull his patented spin move in the pocket with no pressure on him, effectively walking himself into a sack. If he has room to step up, or take a running lane he tends to just hang 10+ yards away from his lineman which leads for an easier angle for pass rushers to take on Wilson. I've seen a few times where Duane Brown was yelling at Russ last season when he was first on the team. He makes life really hard on his blockers. Wilson waits until his receivers have two steps on a guy before he releases the ball, and he is very hesitant to throw one on one jump balls to even his biggest playmakers. The thing is most disconcerting is his lack of pre-snap control. He doesn't change plays often, he just kind of looks like he is there.

So why is this stuff important for Russ, he's been getting by just fine, right? WRONG. Last season Wilson was ineffective for three whole quarters. He was non-existent. You can't do that in the NFL and expect good results. He won us many games, but this whole "we win the game in the fourth quarter mantra" lost us many winnable games as well. In the NFL if you want an offense that isn't a burden you have to convert third downs and do the little things. Wilson has not been able to do this consistently throughout his career. His game is still VERY unpolished, Wilson is a player that is mostly operating off of instinct.

Wilson needs to start trying to refine this ability if he wants to have a long NFL career. He is entering an age where players start to slow down, and injuries start to mount. It will happen one day where he will be slower, and he won't be as agile as he once was. One injury could change how he plays, and approaches the game. If he is forced to hang in the pocket like most guys his career will be over unless he adapts. There will come a time where he needs to reinvent himself as a passer, and I for one am glad Schottenheimer recognizes this.

I've been seeing regression ever since 2015. He's looking more hesitant, and more gun shy, his mechanics are really inconsistent now, and it looks like he is in his own head. I think the combo of poor line play and Carroll's idiotic scheme is really getting to him. Carroll has been a boat anchor in regards to his development as a QB. Carroll really needs to take a step back and let those that specialize in offense do their work. We are not setting our QB up for success with this type of scheme.

AMEN. Your post should be stickied so all the other Pollyannas can get up to speed on reality. We didn't make two Super Bowls because of RW but in spite of him. Now that the remarkable supporting cast has gone away RW's inability to further develop his basic QB abilities are more fully exposed.

Mark my words (and I'm working on about 97.86% accuracy at this point) if the team does not rebound within the next few games the anti-Wilson grumbles are going to go up in volume big time.

I don't want to see it get to that point. I would like RW to have a chance to prove himself without the specter of what is now a very tired/predictable and more often than not losing coaching scheme via Pete Carroll.

Pete should go before Russell Wilson.

 

[Uncle Si]

97.86% of your posts are repetitive, self aggrandizing nonsense.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Wilson's biggest problem is coaches and fans that can't accept the way he plays the game. Hopefully we will win this week by a score of 20 stay in the pockets to 10 stay in the pockets.

Do I wish Wilson would develop his presnap read ability and ability to throw with more anticipation based off of those reads? Sure. Due to his history of being able to extend plays, with his (elusiveness and quickness, not speed), he tends to gravitate towards seeing a fully open target as opposed to throwing to spots earlier in the down based on coverage and looks. Things that guys like Brady and Rodgers are very proficient at. He also shies away from the check down a little too often because of this play extending ability.

This absolute obsession with demanding he stand flat footed in the pocket "like all the good ones" is specifically robbing him of what makes him different (and better than a lot of other guys in the league). If I were working with him, I'd be moving his ass all over the place, while specifically working on breaking his habit of turning his back while moving. That's usually where he goes wrong, missing guys while scrambling because he dips deep instead of lateral or forward movement creating his time. If you want him in the pocket, foolishly robbing him of one of his special gifts, start hiring West Coast Coordinators, not play action guys. Need more coaches that coach the man, not their "system".

Without rewatching the game, I think I saw 2?, read option looks, one very specifically that I remember put him in a staring contest with the chubbiest Outside Linebacker on Denver's squad. He so thoroughly stuffed the ball in the RB's gut that I have no question it was a "read look" and not a "read check". That's a piss poor way to utilize a man of his ability.

My highschool mediocrity at the QB position back in the day taught me this, at 6' 3" plus, and taller than most all of my linemen, I still needed vision lanes and even then, some throws are purely trust, in your presnap read and in your receiver getting to his spot. The only QB's in the NFL that see it all must be genetically related to snails. Humans typically aren't known to be gifted with eye stalks. In those moments of blindness, I sure wished my cement feet worked a little better than they did...

P.S. ..and where in the hell are the RPO's. Carson Wentz can do it but not Wilson? NOBODY would be more suited, but POCKET! RUN BALL! THROW DEEP! ....sigh

First of all, being a good pocket passer is not "standing flat footed in the pocket". There is a lot going on there at the highest level of pocket passing. If a Quarterback is just standing there flat footed they are going to get Carr'd. Pocket manipulation is about setting up blocks and making subtle little movements to avoid pass rushers. This is how an immobile QB such as Brady or old man Manning bought time and beat pass rushers. The second component is the pre-snap read. This is where QB's make adjustments, and survey the field to see if they see openings. The next skill in a pocket passers repertoire is what many refer to as "throwing their guy open". You rely on your WR to run a good route, and you throw to where your receiver is going to be. If you get the proper read on the defense during the presnap this is very hard to defend against. This is how QB's like Brady are consistently able to elevate even mediocre WR's. The last and most important skill is the internal clock. A QB has to feel when pressure is bearing down on them if they want to be a successful pocket passer. If things get dicey either you default to your checkdown, run if you have a lane to do so, or throw the ball away.

Russell Wilson has failed to develop most of these skills throughout his career. He doesn't know how to move around in the pocket, and often times he walks himself into sacks. I've seen him try to pull his patented spin move in the pocket with no pressure on him, effectively walking himself into a sack. If he has room to step up, or take a running lane he tends to just hang 10+ yards away from his lineman which leads for an easier angle for pass rushers to take on Wilson. I've seen a few times where Duane Brown was yelling at Russ last season when he was first on the team. He makes life really hard on his blockers. Wilson waits until his receivers have two steps on a guy before he releases the ball, and he is very hesitant to throw one on one jump balls to even his biggest playmakers. The thing is most disconcerting is his lack of pre-snap control. He doesn't change plays often, he just kind of looks like he is there.

So why is this stuff important for Russ, he's been getting by just fine, right? WRONG. Last season Wilson was ineffective for three whole quarters. He was non-existent. You can't do that in the NFL and expect good results. He won us many games, but this whole "we win the game in the fourth quarter mantra" lost us many winnable games as well. In the NFL if you want an offense that isn't a burden you have to convert third downs and do the little things. Wilson has not been able to do this consistently throughout his career. His game is still VERY unpolished, Wilson is a player that is mostly operating off of instinct.

Wilson needs to start trying to refine this ability if he wants to have a long NFL career. He is entering an age where players start to slow down, and injuries start to mount. It will happen one day where he will be slower, and he won't be as agile as he once was. One injury could change how he plays, and approaches the game. If he is forced to hang in the pocket like most guys his career will be over unless he adapts. There will come a time where he needs to reinvent himself as a passer, and I for one am glad Schottenheimer recognizes this.

I've been seeing regression ever since 2015. He's looking more hesitant, and more gun shy, his mechanics are really inconsistent now, and it looks like he is in his own head. I think the combo of poor line play and Carroll's idiotic scheme is really getting to him. Carroll has been a boat anchor in regards to his development as a QB. Carroll really needs to take a step back and let those that specialize in offense do their work. We are not setting our QB up for success with this type of scheme.

AMEN. Your post should be stickied so all the other Pollyannas can get up to speed on reality. We didn't make two Super Bowls because of RW but in spite of him. Now that the remarkable supporting cast has gone away RW's inability to further develop his basic QB abilities are more fully exposed.

Mark my words (and I'm working on about 97.86% accuracy at this point) if the team does not rebound within the next few games the anti-Wilson grumbles are going to go up in volume big time.

I don't want to see it get to that point. I would like RW to have a chance to prove himself without the specter of what is now a very tired/predictable and more often than not losing coaching scheme via Pete Carroll.

Pete should go before Russell Wilson.

Wilson was a major reason why we got a Super Bowl win. He played well that season, and he showed improvements in both 2014 and 2015 as a player. He played safe ball, and he could move the chains with his legs. He made a few huge plays during crunch time as well. I think you're undervaluing his achievements. Even though his game is severely lacking in some areas, he is a QB that still win you games, and carry a game when needed. His style leaves a lot of be desired, and as a fan is frustrating as hell to watch at times -- but he still is a top 5-10 QB in the NFL -- sometimes top 2-3.

At the end of the day it would be really hard to replace him at QB, even with all of his flaws as a player. You know what is more frustrating than watching a Russell Wilson? Watching a Jimmy Clausen. That being said I question his longevity in the NFL if he doesn't start playing smarter, not harder.

 

[semiahmoo]

Wilson's biggest problem is coaches and fans that can't accept the way he plays the game. Hopefully we will win this week by a score of 20 stay in the pockets to 10 stay in the pockets.

Do I wish Wilson would develop his presnap read ability and ability to throw with more anticipation based off of those reads? Sure. Due to his history of being able to extend plays, with his (elusiveness and quickness, not speed), he tends to gravitate towards seeing a fully open target as opposed to throwing to spots earlier in the down based on coverage and looks. Things that guys like Brady and Rodgers are very proficient at. He also shies away from the check down a little too often because of this play extending ability.

This absolute obsession with demanding he stand flat footed in the pocket "like all the good ones" is specifically robbing him of what makes him different (and better than a lot of other guys in the league). If I were working with him, I'd be moving his ass all over the place, while specifically working on breaking his habit of turning his back while moving. That's usually where he goes wrong, missing guys while scrambling because he dips deep instead of lateral or forward movement creating his time. If you want him in the pocket, foolishly robbing him of one of his special gifts, start hiring West Coast Coordinators, not play action guys. Need more coaches that coach the man, not their "system".

Without rewatching the game, I think I saw 2?, read option looks, one very specifically that I remember put him in a staring contest with the chubbiest Outside Linebacker on Denver's squad. He so thoroughly stuffed the ball in the RB's gut that I have no question it was a "read look" and not a "read check". That's a piss poor way to utilize a man of his ability.

My highschool mediocrity at the QB position back in the day taught me this, at 6' 3" plus, and taller than most all of my linemen, I still needed vision lanes and even then, some throws are purely trust, in your presnap read and in your receiver getting to his spot. The only QB's in the NFL that see it all must be genetically related to snails. Humans typically aren't known to be gifted with eye stalks. In those moments of blindness, I sure wished my cement feet worked a little better than they did...

P.S. ..and where in the hell are the RPO's. Carson Wentz can do it but not Wilson? NOBODY would be more suited, but POCKET! RUN BALL! THROW DEEP! ....sigh

First of all, being a good pocket passer is not "standing flat footed in the pocket". There is a lot going on there at the highest level of pocket passing. If a Quarterback is just standing there flat footed they are going to get Carr'd. Pocket manipulation is about setting up blocks and making subtle little movements to avoid pass rushers. This is how an immobile QB such as Brady or old man Manning bought time and beat pass rushers. The second component is the pre-snap read. This is where QB's make adjustments, and survey the field to see if they see openings. The next skill in a pocket passers repertoire is what many refer to as "throwing their guy open". You rely on your WR to run a good route, and you throw to where your receiver is going to be. If you get the proper read on the defense during the presnap this is very hard to defend against. This is how QB's like Brady are consistently able to elevate even mediocre WR's. The last and most important skill is the internal clock. A QB has to feel when pressure is bearing down on them if they want to be a successful pocket passer. If things get dicey either you default to your checkdown, run if you have a lane to do so, or throw the ball away.

Russell Wilson has failed to develop most of these skills throughout his career. He doesn't know how to move around in the pocket, and often times he walks himself into sacks. I've seen him try to pull his patented spin move in the pocket with no pressure on him, effectively walking himself into a sack. If he has room to step up, or take a running lane he tends to just hang 10+ yards away from his lineman which leads for an easier angle for pass rushers to take on Wilson. I've seen a few times where Duane Brown was yelling at Russ last season when he was first on the team. He makes life really hard on his blockers. Wilson waits until his receivers have two steps on a guy before he releases the ball, and he is very hesitant to throw one on one jump balls to even his biggest playmakers. The thing is most disconcerting is his lack of pre-snap control. He doesn't change plays often, he just kind of looks like he is there.

So why is this stuff important for Russ, he's been getting by just fine, right? WRONG. Last season Wilson was ineffective for three whole quarters. He was non-existent. You can't do that in the NFL and expect good results. He won us many games, but this whole "we win the game in the fourth quarter mantra" lost us many winnable games as well. In the NFL if you want an offense that isn't a burden you have to convert third downs and do the little things. Wilson has not been able to do this consistently throughout his career. His game is still VERY unpolished, Wilson is a player that is mostly operating off of instinct.

Wilson needs to start trying to refine this ability if he wants to have a long NFL career. He is entering an age where players start to slow down, and injuries start to mount. It will happen one day where he will be slower, and he won't be as agile as he once was. One injury could change how he plays, and approaches the game. If he is forced to hang in the pocket like most guys his career will be over unless he adapts. There will come a time where he needs to reinvent himself as a passer, and I for one am glad Schottenheimer recognizes this.

I've been seeing regression ever since 2015. He's looking more hesitant, and more gun shy, his mechanics are really inconsistent now, and it looks like he is in his own head. I think the combo of poor line play and Carroll's idiotic scheme is really getting to him. Carroll has been a boat anchor in regards to his development as a QB. Carroll really needs to take a step back and let those that specialize in offense do their work. We are not setting our QB up for success with this type of scheme.

AMEN. Your post should be stickied so all the other Pollyannas can get up to speed on reality. We didn't make two Super Bowls because of RW but in spite of him. Now that the remarkable supporting cast has gone away RW's inability to further develop his basic QB abilities are more fully exposed.

Mark my words (and I'm working on about 97.86% accuracy at this point) if the team does not rebound within the next few games the anti-Wilson grumbles are going to go up in volume big time.

I don't want to see it get to that point. I would like RW to have a chance to prove himself without the specter of what is now a very tired/predictable and more often than not losing coaching scheme via Pete Carroll.

Pete should go before Russell Wilson.

Wilson was a major reason why we got a Super Bowl win. He played well that season, and he showed improvements in both 2014 and 2015 as a player. He played safe ball, and he could move the chains with his legs. He made a few huge plays during crunch time as well. I think you're undervaluing his achievements. Even though his game is severely lacking in some areas, he is a QB that still win you games, and carry a game when needed. His style leaves a lot of be desired, and as a fan is frustrating as hell to watch at times -- but he still is a top 5-10 QB in the NFL -- sometimes top 2-3.

At the end of the day it would be really hard to replace him at QB, even with all of his flaws as a player. You know what is more frustrating than watching a Russell Wilson? Watching a Jimmy Clausen. That being said I question his longevity in the NFL if he doesn't start playing smarter, not harder.

Again, pretty much agree w/everything you said. Wilson was a big part of those SB years - but a supporting one not the dominant reason. He was no better than #3 in line behind the D and the running game.

And when you raise concerns regarding longevity - absolutely spot on.

He must improve or he won't be long for this league. Perhaps 2-3 more seasons or possibly sooner. I fear he will face a very serious injury. He was badly hobbled last season. Played on total guts/toughness. I applaud him for that but know that those injuries never go away entirely either physically or mentally. He's an old 29/30 in many ways at this point but doesn't have the complete QB game to show it...

 

[hawksincebirth]

There is some substance to what is being discussed here but keep in mind - ONE GAME. This team has played one game, on the road. It is a team of many new parts. Should there be concerns? There should always be concerns. But don’t get ahead of things.

FWIW: I never heard Russell Wilson complain about all the money going to the Defense when they blew a 10 point lead in 49.

This narrative needs to stop , how many points did Russ and his healthy offense score in that time frame ? Zero.. how many three and outs ? Can’t keep a banged up defense off the field but one legged kam, one shoulder earl , one armed sherm, lane gone ... just stop.. same problem we see now Russell’s offense is always inconsistent and never can stay on the field

 

[hawksincebirth]

and yet last season was the 2nd best statistically of his career...

Why are people who can use basic understandings of stats "Homers" or "haters?"

Is this a common fall back for those who cannot articulate their opinion without substantiating it?

or just trolling?

How did that season end ? We make playoffs ? Stats mean everything.. it’s like the nfl hasn’t changed since Steve Young’s days , it’s not more pass happy , rules aren’t tilted in offenses favors ...yes Wilson had a great statistical season last year on paper , but the games weren’t played on paper .. we missed the playoffs , got drubbed by a rival in a must win and our team is on decline . So yayyyyy stats were awesome tho. Those awesome stats that are facts were not a representation of the football we saw on the field ukeface:

 

[hawksincebirth]

97.86% of your posts are repetitive, self aggrandizing nonsense.

Love how homers are allowed to constantly attack posters .. but realists get blocked for these things hmmmm... favoritism ukeface:

 

[Uncle Si]

97.86% of your posts are repetitive, self aggrandizing nonsense.

Love how homers are allowed to constantly attack posters .. but realists get blocked for these things hmmmm... favoritism ukeface:

Homers and realists?


Wilson has been compared to Brees in many threads dozens of times. How did alot of his seasons end?

People can hate on Wilson. Im not the biggest fan at the moment. But bring something more substantial than "he sucks" and then complete blather.

 

[Uncle Si]

and yet last season was the 2nd best statistically of his career...

Why are people who can use basic understandings of stats "Homers" or "haters?"

Is this a common fall back for those who cannot articulate their opinion without substantiating it?

or just trolling?

How did that season end ? We make playoffs ? Stats mean everything.. it’s like the nfl hasn’t changed since Steve Young’s days , it’s not more pass happy , rules aren’t tilted in offenses favors ...yes Wilson had a great statistical season last year on paper , but the games weren’t played on paper .. we missed the playoffs , got drubbed by a rival in a must win and our team is on decline . So yayyyyy stats were awesome tho. Those awesome stats that are facts were not a representation of the football we saw on the field ukeface:

See Drew Brees...

So... when he's slinging it all over the field you don't see that football.. just, well, other football? and that's because of rules? or something? Wilson's stats weren't on paper. he got them on the football field.

Your post makes no sense. If you're unhappy with some things that Wilson does that puts the team in a difficult position, fair enough, then state those things.

Is he running too much? Not enough?

How many yards outside the pocket does he get over sacks taken?

Be interesting to see

 

[semiahmoo]

and yet last season was the 2nd best statistically of his career...

Why are people who can use basic understandings of stats "Homers" or "haters?"

Is this a common fall back for those who cannot articulate their opinion without substantiating it?

or just trolling?

How did that season end ? We make playoffs ? Stats mean everything.. it’s like the nfl hasn’t changed since Steve Young’s days , it’s not more pass happy , rules aren’t tilted in offenses favors ...yes Wilson had a great statistical season last year on paper , but the games weren’t played on paper .. we missed the playoffs , got drubbed by a rival in a must win and our team is on decline . So yayyyyy stats were awesome tho. Those awesome stats that are facts were not a representation of the football we saw on the field ukeface:

Another valid point ignored by too many.

At the end of the day are the Seahawks a legit playoff threat? Last season they weren't even close. The season before they were more pretender than legit. The downward trend is clear to anyone willing to look at the situation honestly.

The first game was pretty sucky. If the next game repeats that performance, and then the third, etc., more and more will be willing to share their frustrations openly. (reverse bandwagon effect)

Keep providing your perspective. It's both valued and needed.

 

[TwistedHusky]

The weird part with Russ is that he makes these amazing plays. And it is hard not to think about focusing the team on him because of that.

He does a lot of the really difficult things well. But he also struggles with a lot of what should be easy for a 7th year QB.

I don't see much upside but removing him is nothing but downside.

He isn't going to take us to a SB. I realize that but my hopes were more just being a good to great team that at least did decently in the playoffs over time. I don't know that opportunity passed before we could realize it too.

The Seattle owing Russ is an interesting take though. We were lucky to get him for the SB run. Flynn would have never gotten close if we never drafted him.

But even so, it is the other way around, if Wilson had not lucked into one of the greatest defenses of all time and a HOF quality RB - he would never have had the SB. Without him could we have made the SB? Not with Flynn or anyone else on that roster besides Wilson. But many other good QBs with that defense would have done just as well. (I don't think ANY other QB would have been able to do it in his 2nd year like Wilson did though.)

So stripped bare of those things, both the great defense and great RB, even a better Wilson cannot overcome what is going to be too many holes to expect a playoff team to have. And a better Wilson than the Wilson that brought us a title is still not consistently effective at scoring enough to carry this team to playoff wins beyond the wildcard anyway.

With another coach and other philosophies, I at least think there would be a chance for him to develop new skills and strengths, but I don't see much reason to expect different otherwise.

I thought that maybe, Russ unfettered was the 4th quarter Russ. But I realize that probably is not a reasonable expectation. And so, expectations that this team could put up a great offense to offset the defense getting weaker does not make sense when your QB never showed he could carry a great offense by himself.

 

[Palmegranite]

So you're saying 'with a good team around him' we have a chance?

 

[Uncle Si]

and yet last season was the 2nd best statistically of his career...

Why are people who can use basic understandings of stats "Homers" or "haters?"

Is this a common fall back for those who cannot articulate their opinion without substantiating it?

or just trolling?

How did that season end ? We make playoffs ? Stats mean everything.. it’s like the nfl hasn’t changed since Steve Young’s days , it’s not more pass happy , rules aren’t tilted in offenses favors ...yes Wilson had a great statistical season last year on paper , but the games weren’t played on paper .. we missed the playoffs , got drubbed by a rival in a must win and our team is on decline . So yayyyyy stats were awesome tho. Those awesome stats that are facts were not a representation of the football we saw on the field ukeface:

Another valid point ignored by too many.

At the end of the day are the Seahawks a legit playoff threat? Last season they weren't even close. The season before they were more pretender than legit. The downward trend is clear to anyone willing to look at the situation honestly.

The first game was pretty sucky. If the next game repeats that performance, and then the third, etc., more and more will be willing to share their frustrations openly. (reverse bandwagon effect)

Keep providing your perspective. It's both valued and needed.

They were two missed field goals from being a playoff team. your post either lacks information or is basic trolling.

Thats the point being missed, and being missed by you.

Not sure if its misinformation by design, trolling or your posts really are just that far off base

 

[chris98251]

Archie Manning
Dan Pastorini
Dan Fouts
Dan Marino
Bert Jones before he was hurt
Warren Moon
Jim Kelly
Fran Tarkenton

List can go on and on, All Great QB's that have not won a SB, some came close, but I guess they were not Elite enough

We got there, we won, should have been two or actually three but one not with Russell, be happy we got to go and dance and took the Prom Queen home at least one night. Lots of fans and teams are still waiting for Limo service.

 

[semiahmoo]

The weird part with Russ is that he makes these amazing plays. And it is hard not to think about focusing the team on him because of that.

He does a lot of the really difficult things well. But he also struggles with a lot of what should be easy for a 7th year QB.

I don't see much upside but removing him is nothing but downside.

He isn't going to take us to a SB. I realize that but my hopes were more just being a good to great team that at least did decently in the playoffs over time. I don't know that opportunity passed before we could realize it too.

The Seattle owing Russ is an interesting take though. We were lucky to get him for the SB run. Flynn would have never gotten close if we never drafted him.

But even so, it is the other way around, if Wilson had not lucked into one of the greatest defenses of all time and a HOF quality RB - he would never have had the SB. Without him could we have made the SB? Not with Flynn or anyone else on that roster besides Wilson. But many other good QBs with that defense would have done just as well. (I don't think ANY other QB would have been able to do it in his 2nd year like Wilson did though.)

So stripped bare of those things, both the great defense and great RB, even a better Wilson cannot overcome what is going to be too many holes to expect a playoff team to have. And a better Wilson than the Wilson that brought us a title is still not consistently effective at scoring enough to carry this team to playoff wins beyond the wildcard anyway.

With another coach and other philosophies, I at least think there would be a chance for him to develop new skills and strengths, but I don't see much reason to expect different otherwise.

I thought that maybe, Russ unfettered was the 4th quarter Russ. But I realize that probably is not a reasonable expectation. And so, expectations that this team could put up a great offense to offset the defense getting weaker does not make sense when your QB never showed he could carry a great offense by himself.

Interesting commentary.

I agree that with any reasonably competent QB in our Seahawk domination years via the defense and Beast (and a much better O-line) we had a very good shot at a SB. RW was remarkable then because he slid into that scheme at such a young/inexperienced age.

Now he's older, the previous dominating parts of the team are almost all gone, and RW has slid down into a little better than mediocre especially when you consider/weigh wins more than merely stats.

It's wins that count. Not that he threw 3 touchdowns or 300 hundred yards. If he isn't the man to lead the team to victories and legit playoff runs then the fans who expect better will feel there is a problem.

Fans who don't really care and just want to feel like they belong to something will be just fine. The problem is those fans start to dwindle fast as they seek out the next winning thing they can be a part of and the Seahawk franchise starts to suffer. That decline takes some time, but it does feel like it's well underway at this point.

That course won't improve until Pete is gone, (and possibly RW) and we go into a real-deal rebuild mode...

 

[SixSeahawk]

Seattle owes Marshawn Lynch. Not Russell Wilson.

 

[semiahmoo]

Seattle owes Marshawn Lynch. Not Russell Wilson.

 

[hawksincebirth]

97.86% of your posts are repetitive, self aggrandizing nonsense.

Love how homers are allowed to constantly attack posters .. but realists get blocked for these things hmmmm... favoritism ukeface:

Wilson has been compared to Brees in many threads dozens of times. How did alot of his seasons end?

People can hate on Wilson. Im not the biggest fan at the moment. But bring something more substantial than "he sucks" and then complete blather.

I love Russell Wilson, as a man, person and player but it is fair to criticize his progression as a quarterback. We can blame o lines bevel whoever. If you have a annually horrible line. You think you would work on plays and throws to beat the blitz. Maybe learn to read pre snap, audible, climb a pocket ... things brees, Brady, Rodgers do on the regular

 

[hawksincebirth]

and yet last season was the 2nd best statistically of his career...

Why are people who can use basic understandings of stats "Homers" or "haters?"

Is this a common fall back for those who cannot articulate their opinion without substantiating it?

or just trolling?

How did that season end ? We make playoffs ? Stats mean everything.. it’s like the nfl hasn’t changed since Steve Young’s days , it’s not more pass happy , rules aren’t tilted in offenses favors ...yes Wilson had a great statistical season last year on paper , but the games weren’t played on paper .. we missed the playoffs , got drubbed by a rival in a must win and our team is on decline . So yayyyyy stats were awesome tho. Those awesome stats that are facts were not a representation of the football we saw on the field ukeface:

See Drew Brees...

So... when he's slinging it all over the field you don't see that football.. just, well, other football? and that's because of rules? or something? Wilson's stats weren't on paper. he got them on the football field.

Your post makes no sense. If you're unhappy with some things that Wilson does that puts the team in a difficult position, fair enough, then state those things.

Is he running too much? Not enough?

How many yards outside the pocket does he get over sacks taken?

Be interesting to see

Drew brees lost on a last second miracle last year or he may have got to the bowl last year first and foremost.
We missed the playoffs, won’t be in it this year either.
I’ve made it clear what the issues with Russ are, and many posters have
Wilson had a great season on paper and in a few games but how fun was that team to watch ? They improve in the red zone ? You keep wanting to throw out stats in a vacuum.

 

[mrt144]

and yet last season was the 2nd best statistically of his career...

Why are people who can use basic understandings of stats "Homers" or "haters?"

Is this a common fall back for those who cannot articulate their opinion without substantiating it?

or just trolling?

How did that season end ? We make playoffs ? Stats mean everything.. it’s like the nfl hasn’t changed since Steve Young’s days , it’s not more pass happy , rules aren’t tilted in offenses favors ...yes Wilson had a great statistical season last year on paper , but the games weren’t played on paper .. we missed the playoffs , got drubbed by a rival in a must win and our team is on decline . So yayyyyy stats were awesome tho. Those awesome stats that are facts were not a representation of the football we saw on the field ukeface:

See Drew Brees...

So... when he's slinging it all over the field you don't see that football.. just, well, other football? and that's because of rules? or something? Wilson's stats weren't on paper. he got them on the football field.

Your post makes no sense. If you're unhappy with some things that Wilson does that puts the team in a difficult position, fair enough, then state those things.

Is he running too much? Not enough?

How many yards outside the pocket does he get over sacks taken?

Be interesting to see

Drew brees lost on a last second miracle last year or he may have got to the bowl last year first and foremost.
We missed the playoffs, won’t be in it this year either.
I’ve made it clear what the issues with Russ are, and many posters have
Wilson had a great season on paper and in a few games but how fun was that team to watch ? They improve in the red zone ? You keep wanting to throw out stats in a vacuum.

Is a kicker shanking it multiple times the inverse of a miracle?