Cowherd: Seattle Owes Russ

[RCATES]

Where is this "Russ has slowed down" stuff coming from? Are these simply eye-ball tests that simply get repeated? Is it his age? He's 29 years old ! Justin Gaitlin is 36 and won the world 100 meters LY (9.92). Usain Bolt just retired at 32 (he has scoliosis).

When's the last time you saw Wilson bail and run wide outside the pocket and literally outrun a defender and gain positive yards? Something he used to do on the regular his first few years.

 

[TreeRon]

Where is this "Russ has slowed down" stuff coming from? Are these simply eye-ball tests that simply get repeated? Is it his age? He's 29 years old ! Justin Gaitlin is 36 and won the world 100 meters LY (9.92). Usain Bolt just retired at 32 (he has scoliosis).

When's the last time you saw Wilson bail and run wide outside the pocket and literally outrun a defender and gain positive yards? Something he used to do on the regular his first few years.

So it's strictly eye ball, nothing objective.

 

[Seymour]

Where is this "Russ has slowed down" stuff coming from? Are these simply eye-ball tests that simply get repeated? Is it his age? He's 29 years old ! Justin Gaitlin is 36 and won the world 100 meters LY (9.92). Usain Bolt just retired at 32 (he has scoliosis).

When's the last time you saw Wilson bail and run wide outside the pocket and literally outrun a defender and gain positive yards? Something he used to do on the regular his first few years.

How about 3 defenders....how about last year?? Good lord. What do you watch during games?? He did that time and time again. :roll:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Seahawks/status/928840005933457408[/tweet]

 

[Seymour]

Where is this "Russ has slowed down" stuff coming from? Are these simply eye-ball tests that simply get repeated? Is it his age? He's 29 years old ! Justin Gaitlin is 36 and won the world 100 meters LY (9.92). Usain Bolt just retired at 32 (he has scoliosis).

When's the last time you saw Wilson bail and run wide outside the pocket and literally outrun a defender and gain positive yards? Something he used to do on the regular his first few years.

Need more??

I dare you to watch "your" QB. Ever seen him play?

[youtube]Xd5IReVfVkY[/youtube]

 

[mrt144]

Where is this "Russ has slowed down" stuff coming from? Are these simply eye-ball tests that simply get repeated? Is it his age? He's 29 years old ! Justin Gaitlin is 36 and won the world 100 meters LY (9.92). Usain Bolt just retired at 32 (he has scoliosis).

When's the last time you saw Wilson bail and run wide outside the pocket and literally outrun a defender and gain positive yards? Something he used to do on the regular his first few years.

How about 3 defenders....how about last year?? Good lord. What do you watch during games?? He did that time and time again. :roll:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Seahawks/status/928840005933457408[/tweet]

As the game was in Arizona, perhaps he couldnt watch from his skybox prison.

 

[Sgt Largent]

Wilson's biggest problem is coaches and fans that can't accept the way he plays the game. Hopefully we will win this week by a score of 20 stay in the pockets to 10 stay in the pockets.

Do I wish Wilson would develop his presnap read ability and ability to throw with more anticipation based off of those reads? Sure. Due to his history of being able to extend plays, with his (elusiveness and quickness, not speed), he tends to gravitate towards seeing a fully open target as opposed to throwing to spots earlier in the down based on coverage and looks. Things that guys like Brady and Rodgers are very proficient at. He also shies away from the check down a little too often because of this play extending ability.

This absolute obsession with demanding he stand flat footed in the pocket "like all the good ones" is specifically robbing him of what makes him different (and better than a lot of other guys in the league). If I were working with him, I'd be moving his ass all over the place, while specifically working on breaking his habit of turning his back while moving. That's usually where he goes wrong, missing guys while scrambling because he dips deep instead of lateral or forward movement creating his time. If you want him in the pocket, foolishly robbing him of one of his special gifts, start hiring West Coast Coordinators, not play action guys. Need more coaches that coach the man, not their "system".

Without rewatching the game, I think I saw 2?, read option looks, one very specifically that I remember put him in a staring contest with the chubbiest Outside Linebacker on Denver's squad. He so thoroughly stuffed the ball in the RB's gut that I have no question it was a "read look" and not a "read check". That's a piss poor way to utilize a man of his ability.

My highschool mediocrity at the QB position back in the day taught me this, at 6' 3" plus, and taller than most all of my linemen, I still needed vision lanes and even then, some throws are purely trust, in your presnap read and in your receiver getting to his spot. The only QB's in the NFL that see it all must be genetically related to snails. Humans typically aren't known to be gifted with eye stalks. In those moments of blindness, I sure wished my cement feet worked a little better than they did...

P.S. ..and where in the hell are the RPO's. Carson Wentz can do it but not Wilson? NOBODY would be more suited, but POCKET! RUN BALL! THROW DEEP! ....sigh

 

[adeltaY]

Where is this "Russ has slowed down" stuff coming from? Are these simply eye-ball tests that simply get repeated? Is it his age? He's 29 years old ! Justin Gaitlin is 36 and won the world 100 meters LY (9.92). Usain Bolt just retired at 32 (he has scoliosis).

When's the last time you saw Wilson bail and run wide outside the pocket and literally outrun a defender and gain positive yards? Something he used to do on the regular his first few years.

Need more??

I dare you to watch "your" QB. Ever seen him play?

[youtube]Xd5IReVfVkY[/youtube]

I believe Wilson clocked the fastest top speed at QB last season.... Albeit chasing down a DB to make the tackle on an INT return. :mrgreen:

 

[rcaido]

Where is this "Russ has slowed down" stuff coming from? Are these simply eye-ball tests that simply get repeated? Is it his age? He's 29 years old ! Justin Gaitlin is 36 and won the world 100 meters LY (9.92). Usain Bolt just retired at 32 (he has scoliosis).

When's the last time you saw Wilson bail and run wide outside the pocket and literally outrun a defender and gain positive yards? Something he used to do on the regular his first few years.

Need more??

I dare you to watch "your" QB. Ever seen him play?

[youtube]Xd5IReVfVkY[/youtube]

If too lazy, check out plays 6,5, 4.

 

[mrt144]

Dude, the lateral play to Mike Davis @ #8...

Sure, many are asking 'is that what a QB is supposed to do? So much could go wrong' and to that I respond - this is what makes him what he is - someone willing to do the crazy if it can help at all. That snap against the Vikes in the playoffs that he deftly scooped up and hurled to Lockett? That's in his DNA.

 

[Sgt Largent]

Where is this "Russ has slowed down" stuff coming from? Are these simply eye-ball tests that simply get repeated? Is it his age? He's 29 years old ! Justin Gaitlin is 36 and won the world 100 meters LY (9.92). Usain Bolt just retired at 32 (he has scoliosis).

When's the last time you saw Wilson bail and run wide outside the pocket and literally outrun a defender and gain positive yards? Something he used to do on the regular his first few years.

Need more??

I dare you to watch "your" QB. Ever seen him play?

[youtube]Xd5IReVfVkY[/youtube]

Exactly one of these plays was, 1..2..3..plant...throw. #2, the redzone seam to Jimmy.

:sarcasm_on: Maybe this year, if he would finally start behaving like a "REAL" QB, we can all watch his TOP 1 PLAYS of 2018!! :snack:

Can't wait! :sarcasm_off:

 

[RCATES]

Where is this "Russ has slowed down" stuff coming from? Are these simply eye-ball tests that simply get repeated? Is it his age? He's 29 years old ! Justin Gaitlin is 36 and won the world 100 meters LY (9.92). Usain Bolt just retired at 32 (he has scoliosis).

When's the last time you saw Wilson bail and run wide outside the pocket and literally outrun a defender and gain positive yards? Something he used to do on the regular his first few years.

How about 3 defenders....how about last year?? Good lord. What do you watch during games?? He did that time and time again. :roll:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Seahawks/status/928840005933457408[/tweet]

He literally outran no one in that video. Made a guy miss and threw up a ill advised throw that luckily got caught.

 

[mrt144]

Where is this "Russ has slowed down" stuff coming from? Are these simply eye-ball tests that simply get repeated? Is it his age? He's 29 years old ! Justin Gaitlin is 36 and won the world 100 meters LY (9.92). Usain Bolt just retired at 32 (he has scoliosis).

When's the last time you saw Wilson bail and run wide outside the pocket and literally outrun a defender and gain positive yards? Something he used to do on the regular his first few years.

How about 3 defenders....how about last year?? Good lord. What do you watch during games?? He did that time and time again. :roll:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Seahawks/status/928840005933457408[/tweet]

He literally outran no one in that video. Made a guy miss and threw up a ill advised throw that luckily got caught.

How often does he throw ill advised passes that luckily get caught?

 

[Uncle Si]

Where is this "Russ has slowed down" stuff coming from? Are these simply eye-ball tests that simply get repeated? Is it his age? He's 29 years old ! Justin Gaitlin is 36 and won the world 100 meters LY (9.92). Usain Bolt just retired at 32 (he has scoliosis).

When's the last time you saw Wilson bail and run wide outside the pocket and literally outrun a defender and gain positive yards? Something he used to do on the regular his first few years.

How about 3 defenders....how about last year?? Good lord. What do you watch during games?? He did that time and time again. :roll:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Seahawks/status/928840005933457408[/tweet]

He literally outran no one in that video. Made a guy miss and threw up a ill advised throw that luckily got caught.

He outran a handful of people chasing him. they didnt catch him until he stopped. not everything is running forward.

he threw a ball to his best receiver who was 1on1. we see that play in the NFL 4 times a game atleast.

I dont think your posts are reflective of good football sense. And I admittedly know little compared to many others on here.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Where is this "Russ has slowed down" stuff coming from? Are these simply eye-ball tests that simply get repeated? Is it his age? He's 29 years old ! Justin Gaitlin is 36 and won the world 100 meters LY (9.92). Usain Bolt just retired at 32 (he has scoliosis).

The slowed down comes straight out of the ass and gets used because it cannot be proven otherwise. People surmise that because he was run down on a few sacks he lost his speed. Reality is, he hung in the pocket longer and lost that first early step and his jump to escape. Russell had 4.55 speed and there are linebackers that are faster than that not to mention DB's and safeties. Fact is he has always been slower than many players chasing him. :roll:

Yeah Wilson has never been the fastest player in the world, but what he does have going for him is elite agility. He can start and go to full speed in an instant. It's the sort of thing Barry Sanders could do -- when he made football moves he never really lost speed, and he could start and stop on a dime, that is why it was so hard to tackle him. If Wilson wanted to he could probably be one of the best slot receivers, or receivers period in the league, and I bet he'd make for a great RB as well. This is why he is an elite athlete.

Now, as far as the previous post from TreeRon goes football players are a completely different animal than sprinters. Lots of more wear and tear on the joints from the constant starting and stopping, as well as more potential for injury. Some guys age gracefully, most don't. Most mobile QB's have had to reinvent their game as they got older.

 

[TreeRon]

"Now, as far as the previous post from TreeRon goes football players are a completely different animal than sprinters. Lots of more wear and tear on the joints from the constant starting and stopping, as well as more potential for injury. Some guys age gracefully, most don't. Most mobile QB's have had to reinvent their game as they got older."

Okay soccer then, Renaldo is 33 and Messi is 31.
Point is, 29 is not old.

 

[Uncle Si]

"Now, as far as the previous post from TreeRon goes football players are a completely different animal than sprinters. Lots of more wear and tear on the joints from the constant starting and stopping, as well as more potential for injury. Some guys age gracefully, most don't. Most mobile QB's have had to reinvent their game as they got older."

Okay soccer then, Renaldo is 33 and Messi is 31.
Point is, 29 is not old.

Gareth Bale is 29 and that dude is faster than 99% of any team athlete in any sport anywhere

 

[Spin Doctor]

Wilson's biggest problem is coaches and fans that can't accept the way he plays the game. Hopefully we will win this week by a score of 20 stay in the pockets to 10 stay in the pockets.

Do I wish Wilson would develop his presnap read ability and ability to throw with more anticipation based off of those reads? Sure. Due to his history of being able to extend plays, with his (elusiveness and quickness, not speed), he tends to gravitate towards seeing a fully open target as opposed to throwing to spots earlier in the down based on coverage and looks. Things that guys like Brady and Rodgers are very proficient at. He also shies away from the check down a little too often because of this play extending ability.

This absolute obsession with demanding he stand flat footed in the pocket "like all the good ones" is specifically robbing him of what makes him different (and better than a lot of other guys in the league). If I were working with him, I'd be moving his ass all over the place, while specifically working on breaking his habit of turning his back while moving. That's usually where he goes wrong, missing guys while scrambling because he dips deep instead of lateral or forward movement creating his time. If you want him in the pocket, foolishly robbing him of one of his special gifts, start hiring West Coast Coordinators, not play action guys. Need more coaches that coach the man, not their "system".

Without rewatching the game, I think I saw 2?, read option looks, one very specifically that I remember put him in a staring contest with the chubbiest Outside Linebacker on Denver's squad. He so thoroughly stuffed the ball in the RB's gut that I have no question it was a "read look" and not a "read check". That's a piss poor way to utilize a man of his ability.

My highschool mediocrity at the QB position back in the day taught me this, at 6' 3" plus, and taller than most all of my linemen, I still needed vision lanes and even then, some throws are purely trust, in your presnap read and in your receiver getting to his spot. The only QB's in the NFL that see it all must be genetically related to snails. Humans typically aren't known to be gifted with eye stalks. In those moments of blindness, I sure wished my cement feet worked a little better than they did...

P.S. ..and where in the hell are the RPO's. Carson Wentz can do it but not Wilson? NOBODY would be more suited, but POCKET! RUN BALL! THROW DEEP! ....sigh

First of all, being a good pocket passer is not "standing flat footed in the pocket". There is a lot going on there at the highest level of pocket passing. If a Quarterback is just standing there flat footed they are going to get Carr'd. Pocket manipulation is about setting up blocks and making subtle little movements to avoid pass rushers. This is how an immobile QB such as Brady or old man Manning bought time and beat pass rushers. The second component is the pre-snap read. This is where QB's make adjustments, and survey the field to see if they see openings. The next skill in a pocket passers repertoire is what many refer to as "throwing their guy open". You rely on your WR to run a good route, and you throw to where your receiver is going to be. If you get the proper read on the defense during the presnap this is very hard to defend against. This is how QB's like Brady are consistently able to elevate even mediocre WR's. The last and most important skill is the internal clock. A QB has to feel when pressure is bearing down on them if they want to be a successful pocket passer. If things get dicey either you default to your checkdown, run if you have a lane to do so, or throw the ball away.

Russell Wilson has failed to develop most of these skills throughout his career. He doesn't know how to move around in the pocket, and often times he walks himself into sacks. I've seen him try to pull his patented spin move in the pocket with no pressure on him, effectively walking himself into a sack. If he has room to step up, or take a running lane he tends to just hang 10+ yards away from his lineman which leads for an easier angle for pass rushers to take on Wilson. I've seen a few times where Duane Brown was yelling at Russ last season when he was first on the team. He makes life really hard on his blockers. Wilson waits until his receivers have two steps on a guy before he releases the ball, and he is very hesitant to throw one on one jump balls to even his biggest playmakers. The thing is most disconcerting is his lack of pre-snap control. He doesn't change plays often, he just kind of looks like he is there.

So why is this stuff important for Russ, he's been getting by just fine, right? WRONG. Last season Wilson was ineffective for three whole quarters. He was non-existent. You can't do that in the NFL and expect good results. He won us many games, but this whole "we win the game in the fourth quarter mantra" lost us many winnable games as well. In the NFL if you want an offense that isn't a burden you have to convert third downs and do the little things. Wilson has not been able to do this consistently throughout his career. His game is still VERY unpolished, Wilson is a player that is mostly operating off of instinct.

Wilson needs to start trying to refine this ability if he wants to have a long NFL career. He is entering an age where players start to slow down, and injuries start to mount. It will happen one day where he will be slower, and he won't be as agile as he once was. One injury could change how he plays, and approaches the game. If he is forced to hang in the pocket like most guys his career will be over unless he adapts. There will come a time where he needs to reinvent himself as a passer, and I for one am glad Schottenheimer recognizes this.

I've been seeing regression ever since 2015. He's looking more hesitant, and more gun shy, his mechanics are really inconsistent now, and it looks like he is in his own head. I think the combo of poor line play and Carroll's idiotic scheme is really getting to him. Carroll has been a boat anchor in regards to his development as a QB. Carroll really needs to take a step back and let those that specialize in offense do their work. We are not setting our QB up for success with this type of scheme.

 

[mrt144]

Is there a law against cloning Doug Pederson? Spin Doctor, if you got the hair sample, I have the cloning machine.

 

[semiahmoo]

There is some substance to what is being discussed here but keep in mind - ONE GAME. This team has played one game, on the road. It is a team of many new parts. Should there be concerns? There should always be concerns. But don’t get ahead of things.

FWIW: I never heard Russell Wilson complain about all the money going to the Defense when they blew a 10 point lead in 49.

Good point but to be fair, some of those D guys would have kicked his a*s if he did. There as no love loss there...

 

[Uncle Si]

Or he's a team player... and leader.