9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin

[SoHo9erFan]

Marvin, I'd like it if you could point out the time and quarter on the clock and in which games it happened, in reference to Ducati's statement, there. I haven't charted or watched Kaepernick's playoff games closely. (Didn't even watch all of them.)

at 1:46 in this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j1p9HXaCzs

 

[kearly]

Most people regard Ozzie Newsome as the best GM in the league and he has had his fair share of misses.

Rational people know this. The big mistake Baalke made in this one is being too determined to fix the need at WR. Same mistake Schneider made in 2011, a determination to toughen up the line with the first two picks. Seattle was picking O-line come hell or high water, so they forced it. Ballke did the same exact thing with Jenkins.

I think JS always does that though. We know for a fact that he drafts in every round based on roster upgrade. He got lucky with Okung and Thomas. Tackle and safety were major priorities that offseason. Okung was a top 4 pick IMO that fell a bit because that draft was loaded at the top, and Thomas was 95% the prospect Berry was and lasted a lot longer than he should have. Obviously then, you had Carp and Moffitt. Irvin was a "hell or high water" pick, and Rob and I successfully predicted they were bent on a LB in round two as well. Hill was very much a need pick in round 3. Really the only BPA type picks they've made was Michael in 2013 and Tate in 2010.

If there was a lesson to learn from Jenkins, I don't think Baalke learned it, judging by the trade up for Reid. You could argue that Tank Carradine was a BPA selection but that pick felt like a pretty iffy need pick to me personally.

I think both GMs will continue to draft for need early in the draft. At times it will work out, at others it will bite them in the ass. One thing I respect about Newsome is that he isn't afraid to put top needs off for the middle rounds and he generally makes BPA type selections early.

 

[Scottemojo]

Kip, I think there is a pretty big difference between best player at a position of need, and best player at the biggest need. First draft was the former, 2nd draft was the latter. At least for the first 2 picks.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Berry was WHAT? Holy Jesus Kip can I have that "maryjane" you're smoking? I know it's all legal in Washington but really? Berry is/was/will be overrated until he retires. He's top 10/15 but never top 5 EVER. No way is he elite sorry.

Then again Kansas City could be using him all wrong. Would not shock me.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Marvin, I'd like it if you could point out the time and quarter on the clock and in which games it happened, in reference to Ducati's statement, there. I haven't charted or watched Kaepernick's playoff games closely. (Didn't even watch all of them.)

at 1:46 in this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j1p9HXaCzs

Ducati specifically said in the playoffs, though. :229031_shrug:

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Kip, I think there is a pretty big difference between best player at a position of need, and best player at the biggest need. First draft was the former, 2nd draft was the latter. At least for the first 2 picks.

For my education why is this being seriously discussed? Given Okung is a top 5 talent and panned out besides? I would bet real money the other picks Kip is bitching likely did pretty much similar?

 

[sc85sis]

In John and Pete's first draft pretty much any pick could have been seen as based on need because the team needed such an overhaul. You could possibly even say the same about year two.

 

[kearly]

Berry was almost unanimously considered the better safety prospect of the two, and has had a nice career when healthy. Thomas was a hustle, try hard playmaker with speed and smarts. But Berry was a superstar at times with Tennessee and played in a bigger body with similar speed. Berry was definitely the better prospect, and we have it on good info that Seattle would have drafted Berry over both Thomas and Okung at #6 had he had reached us.

 

[kearly]

Kip, I think there is a pretty big difference between best player at a position of need, and best player at the biggest need. First draft was the former, 2nd draft was the latter. At least for the first 2 picks.

In the first draft, half the team was a pressing need, true. But Alex Gibbs came here on the condition that we draft a franchise tackle in the 1st round, and Pete made a huge deal about finding his centerfielder that offseason (hence the rampant Taylor Mays rumors). It would have been very hard to find a safety that can do what Earl does at the #60 pick. So barring an unexpected drop by Bradford, Suh, McCoy, I think Seattle was pretty locked in at T/S with the #6 pick while hoping to get the other at #14. 2010 was, IMO, in the latter category.

In the second draft, yes. It was the latter category for sure.

The third draft was latter category as well. Their top three prospects in 2012 were all guys that would have upgraded their biggest problem areas (fast LB, pass rush), though one of those picks (Barron) would have done so indirectly.

Fourth draft, Harvin. But JS did say that if he kept the pick, it wouldn't have been used on a WR. He also said that DT was the teams only pressing need, and he took Hill a bit earlier than many thought he should have. I can only speculate, but my guess is they sprint to the podium for Datone Jones at #25. Highly athletic, upward trajectory, peaking at the right time, good interviewer- a "buy in" type dude, high upside, SoCal / Pac-12 connection, and in need of coaching up. He was PC/JS to a tee. Though Jones was such a good value there, you could viably argue BPA.

 

[rideaducati]

Marvin, I'd like it if you could point out the time and quarter on the clock and in which games it happened, in reference to Ducati's statement, there. I haven't charted or watched Kaepernick's playoff games closely. (Didn't even watch all of them.)

at 1:46 in this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j1p9HXaCzs

I don't think that was a playoff game. If you watch a lot of Kaep's passes, he looks one way while dropping back, but as soon as he hits his drop he throws to the other side. He does this quite a bit so I don't consider it a read. The "read", if there is one is on the side where he actually passes the ball. If you notice, there are two receivers in his sight line, the read is high or low.

 

[SoHo9erFan]

Marvin, I'd like it if you could point out the time and quarter on the clock and in which games it happened, in reference to Ducati's statement, there. I haven't charted or watched Kaepernick's playoff games closely. (Didn't even watch all of them.)

at 1:46 in this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j1p9HXaCzs

I don't think that was a playoff game. If you watch a lot of Kaep's passes, he looks one way while dropping back, but as soon as he hits his drop he throws to the other side. He does this quite a bit so I don't consider it a read. The "read", if there is one is on the side where he actually passes the ball. If you notice, there are two receivers in his sight line, the read is high or low.

Who cares if it wasn't a playoff game? What does that have to do with anything? What you're ignoring is that the 49ers run a west coast offense. Short drops, quick passes. Their offense is designed that way. When Kaep rolls out of the pocket, he almost always targets nonprimary receivers.

I just don't see the point when it comes to questioning Kaep's ability to find 2nd and 3rd targets. The guy completed 62.4% of his passes. What's your suggestion to stop him??? Find out who his primary target is on a play and double team him. I would really love to see a team try it. Not only would it be very difficult to discern who that receiver is presnap, I really don't think it's going to slow Kaep down.

 

[Marvin49]

at 1:46 in this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j1p9HXaCzs

I don't think that was a playoff game. If you watch a lot of Kaep's passes, he looks one way while dropping back, but as soon as he hits his drop he throws to the other side. He does this quite a bit so I don't consider it a read. The "read", if there is one is on the side where he actually passes the ball. If you notice, there are two receivers in his sight line, the read is high or low.

Who cares if it wasn't a playoff game? What does that have to do with anything? What you're ignoring is that the 49ers run a west coast offense. Short drops, quick passes. Their offense is designed that way. When Kaep rolls out of the pocket, he almost always targets nonprimary receivers.

I just don't see the point when it comes to questioning Kaep's ability to find 2nd and 3rd targets. The guy completed 62.4% of his passes. What's your suggestion to stop him??? Find out who his primary target is on a play and double team him. I would really love to see a team try it. Not only would it be very difficult to discern who that receiver is presnap, I really don't think it's going to slow Kaep down.

And still they skip how much of the play is dictated by pre-snap reads.

Most often he DOESN'T HAVE to go to his 3rd or 4th read because the 1st or second is open to him.

Essentially the criticism is that the rest of his team and the playcalling has to suck badly before we can say he's not total garbage. SMH. Moreover...his recievers can't be on the same side of the field so it has to be a play in which his entire helmet turns. His eyes switching targets doesn't count. LOL. It doesn't matter if it play action with only 3 recievers in the pattern....we only count the stuff that makes HIS point, not reality.

Just give up dude. I did. He isn't convincable because he wants so badly for his little delusion to be true.

 

[SouthSoundHawk]

In other news, the San Francisco 49ers trade Five-Thousand dollars to the Oakland Raiders for Four-Thousand dollars.

Seriously though, Baldwin isn't a terrible pick up. It's pretty obvious that there is some panic at the WR position right now, and no solid number one(this season). Have fun dealing with that all year SF. Next to Oakland, this has got to be one of the worst WR units in the NFL (not the very worst, but another injury and that just may be the case). Looking at the depth chart right now, and it loks BAD.

 

[SoHo9erFan]

In other news, the San Francisco 49ers trade Five-Thousand dollars to the Oakland Raiders for Four-Thousand dollars.

Seriously though, Baldwin isn't a terrible pick up. It's pretty obvious that there is some panic at the WR position right now, and no solid number one(this season). Have fun dealing with that all year SF. Next to Oakland, this has got to be one of the worst WR units in the NFL (not the very worst, but another injury and that just may be the case). Looking at the depth chart right now, and it loks BAD.

Agreed. But if the 49ers line up Boldin, Kyle Williams, and Austin Collie (assuming he's healthy), I wouldn't be all that concerned. By Week 6, Manningham should be back and by then I would be content with the WR core. By December Crabtree will be back, and I will feel even more comfortable than last season assuming no other WRs go down with injuries.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Berry was almost unanimously considered the better safety prospect of the two, and has had a nice career when healthy. Thomas was a hustle, try hard playmaker with speed and smarts. But Berry was a superstar at times with Tennessee and played in a bigger body with similar speed. Berry was definitely the better prospect, and we have it on good info that Seattle would have drafted Berry over both Thomas and Okung at #6 had he had reached us.

Thank God they didn't Berry is good but he sure isn't what I would consider elite. It could be the system they ran though. Kansas City is going to more press coverage this year so my opinion can change given the defense definitely looks far better than it has for years.

 

[SoHo9erFan]

Berry was almost unanimously considered the better safety prospect of the two, and has had a nice career when healthy. Thomas was a hustle, try hard playmaker with speed and smarts. But Berry was a superstar at times with Tennessee and played in a bigger body with similar speed. Berry was definitely the better prospect, and we have it on good info that Seattle would have drafted Berry over both Thomas and Okung at #6 had he had reached us.

Thank God they didn't Berry is good but he sure isn't what I would consider elite. It could be the system they ran though. Kansas City is going to more press coverage this year so my opinion can change given the defense definitely looks far better than it has for years.

Berry is definitely top 8 at his position. I'd rather have ET though

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Berry was almost unanimously considered the better safety prospect of the two, and has had a nice career when healthy. Thomas was a hustle, try hard playmaker with speed and smarts. But Berry was a superstar at times with Tennessee and played in a bigger body with similar speed. Berry was definitely the better prospect, and we have it on good info that Seattle would have drafted Berry over both Thomas and Okung at #6 had he had reached us.

Thank God they didn't Berry is good but he sure isn't what I would consider elite. It could be the system they ran though. Kansas City is going to more press coverage this year so my opinion can change given the defense definitely looks far better than it has for years.

Berry is definitely top 8 at his position. I'd rather have ET though

Don't see it but I will trust you. Seems good not great to me. But that could be anything from the system ran, the state of the overall position, or even the rules that handcuff defenses and defensive players.

 

[SoHo9erFan]

Don't see it but I will trust you. Seems good not great to me. But that could be anything from the system ran, the state of the overall position, or even the rules that handcuff defenses and defensive players.

Sidenote: I think that the NFL currently lacks an abundance of quality Safeties. A decade ago it seemed like every team had one Safety that was a household name. Now, that doesn't seem the case. Which is surprising since it has become more of a passing-centric league.