2013 Carroll team v.s 2005 Holmgren team

[Hawkfan77]

So instead of bashing on other teams, let's just bash our own... :roll:

And to anyone that says 05 was finesse, I think there's a few guys (walt, hutch, tobeck) etc that would disagree with you. I guess I don't get how scoring TDs instead of kicking FGs and leading the league in sacks is finesse :229031_shrug:

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

This topic hurts me. Can we talk the 13 Hawks vs 05 Stealers >=)

Heh, sure. They would have stomped the '05 Stealers into the ground as hard as they did the Donkos in the Super Bowl. Probably a lot worse. That Stealers team was lucky, lucky, and damned lucky. Or blessed by the powers that be, if you will. On an even field, with non-crapola referees, Super Bowl XL* is probably a pick'em, with the '05 Seahawks winning six of ten. The '13 Seahawks would have beaten that '05 Stealers team like a redheaded stepchild. They'd have ridden them hard and put them away wet. They'd have put the biggest hurt locker on them since hurt lockers were invented.

Yea, it'd have been ugly. Wonderfully ugly.

 

[Escamillo]

I'm surprised nobody did a unit vs unit comparison. I'll try:

QB: Wilson > Hasslebeck (I think Hasslebeck is the greatest Hawk QB in history, but only because Wilson hasn't played enough years; in a one game match, I take RW).

RB: Alexander >= Lynch (I think SA is the greatest Hawk RB in history, but in a one game matchup, I don't know which I'd take, so I use >= (greater than or equal), so it's barely an edge for SA, if any edge at all).

OL: 2005 >> 2013

TE: ?? (Jeremy Stevens had dropped passes in the SB, but had a very good year; don't know whom to give the edge to here).

WR: 2013 > 2005 (for just pass catching, I think 2013 = 2005, but Harvin's other skills give 2013 the edge)

DL: 2013 > 2005
LB: 2013 > 2005
DB: 2013 >>> 2005

Special Teams: 2013 > 2005

Coaching: 2013 >= 2005

 

[SalishHawkFan]

I think some of you people are either too young or have lost perspective. I ask all of you that think the 13 team would stomp the 05 team this:

So you're saying the 13 Niners would stomp the 05 Hawks? Cuz we barely got by at home by the skin of our teeth against that Niner team last year. I, for one, think the 05 Hawks would blow that Niner team out of the water.

The team we fielded in Super Bowl XLVIII had a defense that was far, far superior in every aspect, and an offense that was at least as good if not a lot better

I agree that the 13 team would win, but it would be damned close. You guys are being homerish IMO. Just this statement above has Kool Aid dripping out of it. The 13 defense rates way better by DVOA than the 05 defense, but the 05 offense is far and away better by DVOA than the 13 offense.

To try to say it is even at least as good is getting caught up in the feel good of the last year.

People's memories of just how good that offense was has faded. 13's defense would have had troubles stopping the run against that offense. Teams that could run on the 13 defense had the best chance of winning last year.

 

[volsunghawk]

I think some of you people are either too young or have lost perspective. I ask all of you that think the 13 team would stomp the 05 team this:

So you're saying the 13 Niners would stomp the 05 Hawks? Cuz we barely got by at home by the skin of our teeth against that Niner team last year. I, for one, think the 05 Hawks would blow that Niner team out of the water.

The team we fielded in Super Bowl XLVIII had a defense that was far, far superior in every aspect, and an offense that was at least as good if not a lot better

I agree that the 13 team would win, but it would be damned close. You guys are being homerish IMO. Just this statement above has Kool Aid dripping out of it. The 13 defense rates way better by DVOA than the 05 defense, but the 05 offense is far and away better by DVOA than the 13 offense.

To try to say it is even at least as good is getting caught up in the feel good of the last year.

People's memories of just how good that offense was has faded. 13's defense would have had troubles stopping the run against that offense. Teams that could run on the 13 defense had the best chance of winning last year.

Both teams are Seahawks teams. How does bring a homer even enter into it?

 

[SalishHawkFan]

I think some of you people are either too young or have lost perspective. I ask all of you that think the 13 team would stomp the 05 team this:

So you're saying the 13 Niners would stomp the 05 Hawks? Cuz we barely got by at home by the skin of our teeth against that Niner team last year. I, for one, think the 05 Hawks would blow that Niner team out of the water.

The team we fielded in Super Bowl XLVIII had a defense that was far, far superior in every aspect, and an offense that was at least as good if not a lot better

I agree that the 13 team would win, but it would be damned close. You guys are being homerish IMO. Just this statement above has Kool Aid dripping out of it. The 13 defense rates way better by DVOA than the 05 defense, but the 05 offense is far and away better by DVOA than the 13 offense.

To try to say it is even at least as good is getting caught up in the feel good of the last year.

People's memories of just how good that offense was has faded. 13's defense would have had troubles stopping the run against that offense. Teams that could run on the 13 defense had the best chance of winning last year.

Both teams are Seahawks teams. How does bring a homer even enter into it?

One team won the Super Bowl just last year and one team would have won had the refs not intentionally cheated them out of it. It's easy to forget just how good that 05 team was.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Noodle arm Matt would get crushed.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

I think some of you people are either too young or have lost perspective. I ask all of you that think the 13 team would stomp the 05 team this:

So you're saying the 13 Niners would stomp the 05 Hawks? Cuz we barely got by at home by the skin of our teeth against that Niner team last year. I, for one, think the 05 Hawks would blow that Niner team out of the water.

The team we fielded in Super Bowl XLVIII had a defense that was far, far superior in every aspect, and an offense that was at least as good if not a lot better

I agree that the 13 team would win, but it would be damned close. You guys are being homerish IMO. Just this statement above has Kool Aid dripping out of it. The 13 defense rates way better by DVOA than the 05 defense, but the 05 offense is far and away better by DVOA than the 13 offense.

To try to say it is even at least as good is getting caught up in the feel good of the last year.

People's memories of just how good that offense was has faded. 13's defense would have had troubles stopping the run against that offense. Teams that could run on the 13 defense had the best chance of winning last year.

Yes, the '05 team was a great team, but it lost (granted with a LOT of referee help) against a mediocre Stealers team that year. You say the '05 offense was really, really good. Was it as good as the '13 Donkos' offense? The offense we stuffed for 8 points? I'd guess the '13 Donkos would have rolled the '05 Stealers in a Super Bowl matchup, and we were 35 points better than that '13 Donkos team.

And the '13 team was deceptively better on offense in the Super Bowl than the year's DVOA would indicate. Calculate the '13 team's DVOA with Harvin added and see how it stacks up to the '05 team. I loved the '05 team, but there's no way a game between these two teams wouldn't be an ass-whipping, with the '05 team as the recipient.

 

[jeremiah]

I am in the minority. The 2013 team was better than the league last year, the '05 team was better than the entire league. They were off in the Super Bowl, or they would have destroyed Pittsburgh. The thing that can never be known was how good the '05 team would have been without the injuries at Safety. 2013 was deeper and better in the back end, and it makes a world of difference. 05 would have won the Super Bowl against nearly every opponent since that time. This last one would have been a slobber knocker, NOT a blowout. Alexander was done, FINISHED by the end of 2005. He really did not begin playing soft until he got a concussion against the Skins in the playoff game in '05. He was on a mission, and he played in a much better running game than Lynch has for Seattle so far. I like Marshawn, and would love to see him have some good blocking, but I fear it will never happen. What he gets, he gets almost exclusively from high effort. If he could run free like SA did when the OL totally dominated the entire league, that will be something to see. 2,000 yards easily. I would pick '13 over '05 27-24 though, it would be a helluva game. I think though that if the teams played ten times , '05 wins five.

 

[warden]

The 2013 Seahawks have an incredible streak going. 45 straight games without a loss of more then one score (7 points) That streak started before Wilson was our QB. They are one game away from tying the NFL record in that category. We are in a position to win every game, it no longer matters who, how good, where, what time zone we play in, I totally believe we can win the game. Each and every game. I never felt that way about the 2005 Seahawks. I never felt we had a chance in the Superbowl if we played the 2005 Colts, or the Patriots or the Broncos. The 2005 team needed to have the stars all lined up correctly to succeed. In 2005 I hoped we played the lowest seed which was the Steelers because it was about the only chance we had to win it all. In 2013, I wanted to play the best teams, I welcomed the challenge.

2013 all the way

 

[olyfan63]

So instead of bashing on other teams, let's just bash our own... :roll:

And to anyone that says 05 was finesse, I think there's a few guys (walt, hutch, tobeck) etc that would disagree with you. I guess I don't get how scoring TDs instead of kicking FGs and leading the league in sacks is finesse :229031_shrug:

^^^ This.

How many times will people mindlessly repeat the bogus "finesse" label for the 2005 team? That label displays all the mental agility and grasp of facts and data that the national media displayed in analyzing the 2013 Seahawks prior to the Super Bowl beatdown. In other words, not so much.

2005 Seahawks="FINESSE"??!! C'MON PEOPLE!! Did you actually *watch* the 2005 team?
2005 Seahawks="SMASHMOUTH!!"

For a refresher course on the 2005 team, check out this video of Sean Alexander's TD's that year.
The point isn't about Alexander himself, but rather *look at the gaping holes* ripped in opposing defenses by the 2005 Seahawks Offensive Line. A "finesse" team doesnt' wipe the turf with run defenders like you see in this video!!
[youtube]BXttr6qph80[/youtube]

Hell, Alexander even fought through a bunch of defenders for some of those TD's. But it was the O-Line getting the job done, both sides, but especially that left side of Big Walt and Hutch. Mostly you see Alexander running through open lanes where defenders have been successfully blocked.

The ability of the 2005 team to run against *anyone* was what made that team go. In SBXL, Alexander had nearly 100 yards. Seattle ran on Pittsburgh. But the 2005 D gave up 2 long "gift" TD's to the Steelers in the 2nd half. Any finesse in 2005 was on the defensive side of the ball.

The 2005 Seahawks, with their big-time, smash-mouth running game, were reminiscent of the Denver Bronco teams with Terrell Davis and John Elway that won back-to-back Super Bowls, SB XXXII and XXXIII.

How could the 2005 Seahawks beat the 2013 Seahawks? It's the Broncos that give us the answer to that, with their win over a heavily favored Packers team in SBXXXII, ironically coached by Holmgren. See this article:
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/ ... 77221.html

The Green Bay people felt that they win that game 9 times out of 10, with their talent advantage. On that day, it wasn't enough. I do agree the 2013 Seahawks win 8 out of 10 against the 2005 Seahawks, but the games are mostly close, not blowouts.

 

[47degreesn]

Richard Sherman would have smacked the 05 game refs.

 

[Hasselbeck]

I am amazed. I have been reading all the to and froing about this and that, but it looks like no one read my post about the schedule and who the 05 Hawks actually played to amass their 13 and 3 record.

The fact is all this talk about the greatness of the 05 Hawks O just totally ignores the teams they played. They like the 13 Broncos were the beneficiaries of inflated numbers from weak opponents.

"05 team played against teams that were a combined 110/146 wins. They feasted on SF 4 wins, Arizona 5 wins, St Louis 6 wins in 6 of the games. 05 team played only 5 teams with a winning record. They lost 2 of them and one of the winning records was a bad Dallas team.

Plus the 3 teams with winning records they did beat they got to play at home.

They got to play bad teams in Tennessee, Houston and Green Bay who only had 10 wins combined. (note they lost to GB)

In the playoffs they played against wild card teams of Wash and Carolina with 10 and 11 wins respectively and both at home. Both teams had only average offenses."

Has everyone developed amnesia or tunnel vision in their love for the 05 Hawks?? A good team but not great by any stretch. No one in NFL land talks about the great Offense of the 05 Hawks as something for posterity.

The 13 Hawks D is top 3 of all time. You cannot without rose colored glasses be saying the 05 Hawks are in the top 10 in anything all time. :229031_banghead:

The division now compared to 05' is obviously drastically different.. but lets not pretend the 2013 team didn't play some cupcakes too.

I agree that the 13' team would have manhandled the 05' team, but its not because of SOS. That's a really weak argument.

 

[HawkFan72]

There is also the intangible factors like mental toughness that would affect the game.

I love Hass, but it is a fact that he would get rattled when things weren't going his way. I think the 13 D would get in his head and make him make a dumb mistake or two.

That alone could decide the game.

In a video game, sure the game might be a lot closer. In real life, I think the 13 team was tougher mentally and was always in control of their opponent. The 05 team struggled with physical, tough Defenses that gave them 3-4 looks. I just think the 13 team could have rattled the 05 Offense enough to throw them off their game (which really was the best Offense in team history).

 

[warden]

The 2005 passing offense relied so much on timing, while the 2013 defense was the masters of disrupting the timing

 

[SmokinHawk]

2005 Seahawks would have gotten their asses kicked. We're talking about the team that couldn't emerge from their own shadow to handily beat a pretty average Steelers team, going up against one of the best teams since the NFL/AFL merger. It would be worse than 43-8, I'm afraid. That '05 team didn't have the guts to match up to the manimals on our squad today.