Confidence in Waldron is teetering

[DeSeahawk]

Gotta say, yes, the common denominator, is and always has been, Pete Carroll.

We all know since we watch years and years and now decades of Pete Carroll offense.

Rather more than simple, Carroll’s has his fingerprints in all offensive coordinators he has and for the most part, all never ran a high tempo, exotic package spread them out and throw for 400 yards a game.

Carroll, has been on record he’s fine with 200 yard games on offense and winning with the you know Seattle will run even when it’s 8 man in the box. That’s just how Carroll prefers to play. No hidden schemes and a very vanilla offense.

Waldron has always been a puppet for Carroll.

Difference from last year was Seattle’s offensive line somewhat over performed with their bookend tackles and now Seattle doesn’t have that advantage anymore.

Geno, isn’t a playmaker without a group of solid, solid, guys up front. We are seeing that now.

It doesn’t matter who Seattle adds at OC if Carroll is HC. All OCs have been underwhelming under Carroll and it’s not so much the OCs fault but the game management design Carroll wishes to play instead of going for the scores and putting up yards and points by any means.

An OC is very limited when they coach under Carroll and this should be apparent now. We have seen Carroll’s impact on OCs for a long time and too be honest, it’s MOST LIKELY not going to change with a new OC.

In order for the Seahawks offense to look great as in tops in this league, it will require an elite offensive line the way Carroll runs “his offense.”

We’re doomed!!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately, I agree with you completely.

 

[keasley45]

Every HC has influence over their coordinators to some degree.

Also, yes his offense does look a lot different. It’s also worth mentioning that Russell Wilson forces offenses to play a certain way.

The routes are different, there is a screen game, a lot more short routes/timing passes. I also saw a lot more movement at the LOS than when he was here.

Now, it’s worth being said, there is also McCarthy. He likely has some influence over the offense.

Bevells on the other hand is low level, can’t even call him a coordinator right now. His offenses looked at times perplexing on the Lions.

This .

When it was Russ, we ran too much because Pete doesn't want to throw. Now we throw too much. Hmm...

No throws over the middle because of Pete. Now we do.

No TE use. Pete . Except, now we do.

Screens? Didn't. Now do.

The truth is, now we do all of the things folks who were blaming Pete for not doing. We just don't do them in any consistently logical manner.

And that to me smells like a coach who has even openly basked in the glow of recognition received for having an explosive offense, trusting his coordinator will deploy the tools at his disposal correctly. Same way he trusted KNJ. And it's not happening.

We are one of the lowest ranked teams in the league in terms of rushing attempts and THAT offense is supposed to be a 'Pete' offense?

Whats more likely? That a HOF HC who knew offense well enough to turn Denvers current QB into a Wonder Boy here in Seattle, has just completely lost and it?... and in the process is contradicting every tendency he was thought to have, re offense. OR, that the 'oc' he hired to appease that QB was really brought in at the time to be able to script good enough plays for a guy who was only capable of running a few well (and disguise them enough to grow a little), and is now in way over his head trying to scheme a fully functional, variable, adaptable offense?

 

[cymatica]

Is it possible that playing two elite defenses has people overreacting to our recent offensive struggles?

No. If Seattle came in with a good plan and put up a fight but still lost, most are fine with that. What they did was play as if they have the #1 oline and QB. Nothing was done to help Geno and the line. No rollouts, misdirection, quick timing routes, screens, etc. The only screen I remember was a wr screen to JSN on 3rd and 14 or whatever it was. Needed those on 1st and 2nd down. It was the most incompetent gameplan you could run against Baltimore.

To top it off, they thought it was a good idea to keep running right up the gut, even though people like me who shouldn't know better than professional coaches knew you don't run straight at that team, there's half a season of tape that shows this and even the mediots knew.

 

[knownone]

No. If Seattle came in with a good plan and put up a fight but still lost, most are fine with that. What they did was play as if they have the #1 oline and QB. Nothing was done to help Geno and the line. No rollouts, misdirection, quick timing routes, screens, etc. The only screen I remember was a wr screen to JSN on 3rd and 14 or whatever it was. Needed those on 1st and 2nd down. It was the most incompetent gameplan you could run against Baltimore.

To top it off, they thought it was a good idea to keep running right up the gut, even though people like me who shouldn't know better than professional coaches knew you don't run straight at that team, there's half a season of tape that shows this and even the mediots knew.

Okay. They had a lousy game plan. Do you expect the offense's performance against the Ravens to be the norm going forward? I don't.

 

[DeSeahawk]

This .

When it was Russ, we ran too much because Pete doesn't want to throw. Now we throw too much. Hmm...

No throws over the middle because of Pete. Now we do.

No TE use. Pete . Except, now we do.

Screens? Didn't. Now do.

The truth is, now we do all of the things folks who were blaming Pete for not doing. We just don't do them in any consistently logical manner.

And that to me smells like a coach who has even openly basked in the glow of recognition received for having an explosive offense, trusting his coordinator will deploy the tools at his disposal correctly. Same way he trusted KNJ. And it's not happening.

We are one of the lowest ranked teams in the league in terms of rushing attempts and THAT offense is supposed to be a 'Pete' offense?

Whats more likely? That a HOF HC who knew offense well enough to turn Denvers current QB into a Wonder Boy here in Seattle, has just completely lost and it?... and in the process is contradicting every tendency he was thought to have, re offense. OR, that the 'oc' he hired to appease that QB was really brought in at the time to be able to script good enough plays for a guy who was only capable of running a few well (and disguise them enough to grow a little), and is now in way over his head trying to scheme a fully functional, variable, adaptable offense?

As far as the TE and throwing over the middle, I think that was a result of Wilson . Hass did it and now Geno does some, so I dont think that's a Pete thing. I'm thinking it was difficult for Wilson cuz he was shorter than the other two guys.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Now we have 2 threads about confidence.

Next thread: Confidence rocks, agree?

 

[AgentDib]

Sure, but there are also simple generalizations that are completely valid. For example, if the other team is constantly blitzing and the coordinator keeps calling long developing plays, it's pretty obvious what the problem is.

Of course the rebuttal is that if you can't drive the ball downfield then they sit on the short stuff and you can't do that either. Here are some examples that I was just looking at earlier. At least for these plays I think personnel execution was the glaring issue over the play call.

4:04 1st - 2nd & 11 at SEA 46
Parkinson does run a quick out and appears open. Geno bounces a pass to Lockett instead and Romo thinks it was miscommunication. It could also have to do with Peters getting bull rushed back into Geno, and Geno not being able to step into the throw and deliver it with power. That leads to the difficult third down on the following play...

4:01 1st - 3rd & 11 at SEA 46
The play where their five rushers demolished our seven protectors. With the benefit of hindsight, I would rather see Charb chip and release into the flat here rather than counting on the protection holding up. Hard not to ultimately blame the OL here though.

12:11 2nd - 3rd & 4 at SEA 32
Protection holds up here and I have zero idea what Lockett and Geno were doing on this one. Throw is way over Lockett's head right to the DB and intercepted. Probably just a terrible throw from Geno but Lockett looked a bit confused pre-snap.

9:55 2nd - 2nd & 8 at SEA 39
Really ugly sack with them rushing four and us protecting six (Walker kept in to protect). Walker seems like the issue here, as he tries to chip inside?! but really just sets a pick on our own LG and then releases out to the left after Geno is sacked. My reaction is this may be the worst pass blocking rep I've seen this season from any player. Geno probably could have thrown it away before getting sacked?

I'm not sure the second half had any examples worth looking at given the game situation and the blow out score. There was a third & 15 one drive, third & 16 the next drive, really nothing that you would expect to convert a reasonable amount of the time against a strong defense.

 

[scutterhawk]

My confidence in Waldron is gone. He's only good in spurts. That's not good enough.

LOLOL Yeah, LOL, Tired of the limitations, Nobody's going to mistake him for 'Walter Mitty'.
IF he's saving the Best For Last, he needs to get his ass back to the drawing board....Imagination is an ongoing gig for OC's

 

[SoulfishHawk]

The Red Zone stuff. So predictable.

 

[scutterhawk]

Holy molly, how many OCs do we have to go through before we realize that this is endemic to the culture?
I am not even sayin that Pete controls the call, just that the culture he installed in the organization gets these results. The picks they make, the undervaluing of the most important position on the field. The fact that he refuses to draft a high pick QB every single time. I mean, I know that they do not grow on trees, but it has been a few years (and don’t tell me we had Russ; I can understand the fans realizing that he was a one trick pony after two contract renewals, especially because with him under center we won our first SB, but Pete better have know this after a couple of years - he should have planned for a replacement rather than giving him two very generous contracts for what basically we now know is not even a good game manager).

High Pick Quarterbacks ARE NO GUARANTEE, I mean hell, wasn't Tom Brady a FIFTH ROUND PICK?!?
Russell Wilson was a THIRD ROUNDER, Picked by Pete Carroll & John Schneider.
Ryan Leaf Etc. Etc. eh?

 

[ccla]

High Pick Quarterbacks ARE NO GUARANTEE, I mean hell, wasn't Tom Brady a FIFTH ROUND PICK?!?
Russell Wilson was a THIRD ROUNDER, Picked by Pete Carroll & John Schneider.
Ryan Leaf Etc. Etc. eh?

High Pick Quarterbacks ARE NO GUARANTEE, I mean hell, wasn't Tom Brady a FIFTH ROUND PICK?!?
Russell Wilson was a THIRD ROUNDER, Picked by Pete Carroll & John Schneider.
Ryan Leaf Etc. Etc. eh?

I am not an idiot*,and did mention that in my reply. But every pick can be a whiff and sometimes you have to take risks, otherwise you get what we have. We are in a better place than some teams but we haven’t had a wiff of the SB in quite some time. If you are satisfied with that, more power to you.
I am just trying to understand why we keep on trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. And by that I mean we try to play a grinding game but with players that have no clue how to tackle and an offense built to do the minimum necessary to keep us in games. It works most of the times but not in crunch time.

* P.S. my wife might disagree!!

 

[12AngryHawks]

The Red Zone stuff. So predictable.

The red zone issues are making me miss Schotty.

 

[renofox]

The red zone issues are making me miss Schotty.

Too bad the NFL made it illegal to use TEs in the redzone.

At least that's what Waldron told me.

 

[FrodosFinger]

Shane needs to pull his head out

 

[MyrtleHawk]

Ready?



Waldron is making Geno look bad on purpose so Pete will start Lock, and then Waldron will make Lock look like Tom Brady.

fenderbender123: *This post is for entertainment purposes only.

 

[cymatica]

Okay. They had a lousy game plan. Do you expect the offense's performance against the Ravens to be the norm going forward? I don't.

It wasn't just lousy. It defied logic. I don't expect that performance to be the norm, but I do expect the same patterns to not be fixed. We can argue who's fault it is, but like clockwork they resort back to forgetting about the tight ends and acting like they have a top 5 online.

Pete will probably get on Waldron's case about the run game, so maybe he won't abandon it so fast. But I don't expect much more than up the gut with the occasional toss outside. If the oline is struggling, I won't expect him to call plays to mitigate that. He would have done that when we needed it most in Baltimore, but inexplicably he left Geno and the oline out to dry.

He doesn't have a feel for the game. Need someone who does.

 

[cymatica]

Too bad the NFL made it illegal to use TEs in the redzone.

At least that's what Waldron told me.

Someone tell DK it's not illegal to jump for the ball

 

[LTH]

I

I think he was ME3s choice because he came from the McVay tree.

I think the reason they are NOT using the whole play book is because they are developing players and schemes. Like vs the Ravens they didn't use 12 and 13 personnal groupings because they wanted to get JSN going. I suspect they were developing other schemes and players as well. You will see, when they open it up, which they haven't consistently, they are going to be lethal..

Schematically against the Ravens, that was not the Hawks best effort. I just don't believe it.

Just my take

LTH

 

[CouchLogic]

Ready?

View attachment 61713

Waldron is making Geno look bad on purpose so Pete will start Lock, and then Waldron will make Lock look like Tom Brady.

View attachment 61714

 

[cymatica]

I

I think the reason they are NOT using the whole play book is because they are developing players and schemes. Like vs the Ravens they didn't use 12 and 13 personnal groupings because they wanted to get JSN going. I suspect they were developing other schemes and players as well. You will see, when they open it up, which they haven't consistently, they are going to be lethal..

Schematically against the Ravens, that was not the Hawks best effort. I just don't believe it.

Just my take

LTH

Sounds like a dumb strategy: don't use something that is most likely to work so you can get your rookie some catches.

I doubt they open it up. They'll be the same Jekyll and Hyde team they've been until the coaches stop screwing around and stick to what this team is good at, no matter how butthurt players get for selfish reasons.