Will Levis

[Jac]

Yet again, we are in agreement. Calling our own players trash or worthless..........how productive.
As opposed to internet coaches who probably have never played a down of organized football past Jr. High.

Well, apparently he's "serviceable". I suppose that's what you'd call a QB who, in his 10th year, is tied for 18th in TDs thrown. Joshua Dobbs and Justin Fields are nipping at his heels, though...so we'll see where he finishes.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Our front office/coaching staff rolling out Geno Smith as its starting QB rather than ever addressing it in the draft is absolute toxic team management.

Ever? It's been two years, and he's been at worst a top-16 quarterback over that time period by the vast majority of metrics and most film analysis agree.

It's not like we've been trotting him out for a decade. We're not even out of year 2. He's not the permanent fixture at the spot.

Instant gratification is rarely achieved in the NFL.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Yet again, we are in agreement. Calling our own players trash or worthless..........how productive.
As opposed to internet coaches who probably have never played a down of organized football past Jr. High.

It just sucks. The team underperforming should not be used as a trump card to put down other fans. Some people are really taking too much pleasure in our failures, and are going to refuse to acknowledge the successes along the way.

Realistically, most teams aren't going to compete for titles each year. Enjoying the successes as they happen is necessary to enjoy the sport, at this point. The 7-9 Beastquake team definitely wasn't winning the Super Bowl, but that win-and-in week 17 Rams game and then the Beastquake game are some of my favorite all-time memories.

Gotta enjoy the small successes, and stop using the perceived misses to make other fans even more upset than they surely already are.

 

[Maelstrom787]

With Levis, though, he clearly has some real juice. I don't know if it's just that he's riding a spark of inspiration or if he's actually ascending into good territory.

I still have worries about his overall efficiency and his fundamental processing as a passer. I'm not sure he ever cracks top-10, but he's closer than I would've thought after his 2022 tape.

 

[Ozzy]

Pretending like Geno Smith hasn't been a serviceable QB is toxic fandom.

Well if you were being honest I think you'd admit Levis has at least shown some potential or interesting traits this year that could translate moving forward.

 

[Jac]

It just sucks. The team underperforming should not be used as a trump card to put down other fans. Some people are really taking too much pleasure in our failures, and are going to refuse to acknowledge the successes along the way.

You should probably look back on where the fan name calling actually came from.

 

[Ozzy]

With Levis, though, he clearly has some real juice. I don't know if it's just that he's riding a spark of inspiration or if he's actually ascending into good territory.

I still have worries about his overall efficiency and his fundamental processing as a passer. I'm not sure he ever cracks top-10, but he's closer than I would've thought after his 2022 tape.

I was a big fan of him coming out and so far he's flashed some of that potential. We will see what Tenn does to build around him but I still think he's going be a good pro.

 

[knownone]

I loved Levis coming out of the draft, but he wasn't ready to lead a team with playoff aspirations. He was a one-year project, at a minimum, with all the traits and intangibles you look for in a franchise QB. So we have another situation where some people seem to be analyzing decisions with the benefit of hindsight—knowing we might miss the playoffs—and concluding not drafting Levis (or any QB) was a miscalculation by the front office. That seems like a fair perspective if you are more interested in finding the QBOTF than competing. But I'm not sure that's the best philosophy for a team coming off a playoff appearance with a Pro Bowl quarterback.

Levis is in the bottom ten of nearly every efficiency metric. The sample size is too small to consider, but Drew Lock is in comparable ranges. He's only three years older and has an athletic profile similar to Levis's—albeit, Lock has serious air-head vibes. So, It makes sense why they'd pass on that opportunity and instead focus on upgrading at WR and EDGE. They have a QB with everything you want, who is further along in the process.

 

[renofox]

Well if you were being honest I think you'd admit Levis has at least shown some potential or interesting traits this year that could translate moving forward.

THIS^^^

If we would have started this season with the hope of seeing progession from a potential QBOTF, instead of expected regression from a QB on the road to retirement, my entire view of the Seahawks would have been radically different.

 

[Ozzy]

I loved Levis coming out of the draft, but he wasn't ready to lead a team with playoff aspirations. He was a one-year project, at a minimum, with all the traits and intangibles you look for in a franchise QB. So we have another situation where some people seem to be analyzing decisions with the benefit of hindsight—knowing we might miss the playoffs—and concluding not drafting Levis (or any QB) was a miscalculation by the front office. That seems like a fair perspective if you are more interested in finding the QBOTF than competing. But I'm not sure that's the best philosophy for a team coming off a playoff appearance with a Pro Bowl quarterback.

Levis is in the bottom ten of nearly every efficiency metric. The sample size is too small to consider, but Drew Lock is in comparable ranges. He's only three years older and has an athletic profile similar to Levis's—albeit, Lock has serious air-head vibes. So, It makes sense why they'd pass on that opportunity and instead focus on upgrading at WR and EDGE. They have a QB with everything you want, who is further along in the process.

Not sure who you’re responding to but I’m not using hindsight. I wanted Levis and Geno for one year.

I’ve point this out before but you have to be able to self scout and do it better than anyone. A lot of smart people (obviously because it was my stance ) question if we played way over our heads last year with a near league easiest schedule and Geno playing much worse in the second half and the team as a whole. I get it man you always want to give Pete, Seahawks the benefit of the doubt as a default but I think it’s makes you a little biased at times. And yes, I tend to be more critical of Pete and the Seahawks and can be guilty of the same thing but I think it’s wrong for us to do so.

They took Hall at 37 and Levis went 33. I think that was massive mistake if they didn’t try to trade up for him. I’d much rather have Witherspoon, JSN and Levis.

 

[Ozzy]

I’ll add KJ’s remarks on Geno. As soon as he was asked if Geno is a leader he shook his head immediately. If KJ knows this then how doesn’t Pete? And if it’s true then yeah you should’ve been looking for a QB last year and the criticism is warranted. He was pedestrian down the stretch and struggles with leadership? I’d take a Levis who Hopkins just gave super high praise for all day long and his competitive nature that was on display was there in college. Seems like a perfect guy to push Geno and coach up for the future.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I’ll add KJ’s remarks on Geno. As soon as he was asked if Geno is a leader he shook his head immediately. If KJ knows this then how doesn’t Pete? And if it’s true then yeah you should’ve been looking for a QB last year and the criticism is warranted. He was pedestrian down the stretch and struggles with leadership? I’d take a Levis who Hopkins just gave super high praise for all day long and his competitive nature that was on display was there in college. Seems like a perfect guy to push Geno and coach up for the future.

KJ seems a bit bitter that he hasn't been asked to come help with coaching after he expressed desire.

That being said, damn. That eye roll worries me. I expected it with Quandre, as he's a bit of a goofball and doesn't seem like a leader so much as just a player. Geno though, he does seem like a fairly good leader these days. My guess is that his mindset changed when he came the starter and he took more of an active leadership role than when he was a backup and likely very self-focused. I hope I'm not wrong about that.

 

[Ozzy]

KJ seems a bit bitter that he hasn't been asked to come help with coaching after he expressed desire.

That being said, damn. That eye roll worries me. I expected it with Quandre, as he's a bit of a goofball and doesn't seem like a leader so much as just a player. Geno though, he does seem like a fairly good leader these days. My guess is that his mindset changed when he came the starter and he took more of an active leadership role than when he was a backup and likely very self-focused. I hope I'm not wrong about that.

Yeah to be fair I’ve always taken KJ with a grain of salt because he seemed overly biased towards Pete. Most of his career was with Pete during the best years in franchise history and by all reports they were close. I guess that’s why this comment hit me. He was fairly critical even though he usually talks very highly of Pete and to be fair did in podcast this week. But, the coaching thing I haven’t considered so it could very well be playing into this.

I’ve never been a fan of Geno in game. He seems to blame receivers every time he makes a mistake, pouts on the sidelines etc. I think we were spoiled by Russ in that regard and I’m probably being a little unfair to Geno on this too.

I’m rambling but yeah him instantly saying no was still a little surprising.

 

[NoGain]

Geno was a placeholder till we got a potential QBOTF, kind of like Alex Smith was for KC. The only thing, however, was that they totally forgot to even attempt to draft a QBOTF.

It's always PC's magical thinking that we are closer to the prize than we really are. He's proven to be shortsighted in this way. True, he and the culture he creates has usually found a way to be competitive, but never a team since 2015 or so that you ever truly thought had the talent and know-how to seize the Grail.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Geno was a placeholder till we got a potential QBOTF, kind of like Alex Smith was for KC. The only thing, however, was that they totally forgot to even attempt to draft a QBOTF.

It's always PC's magical thinking that we are closer to the prize than we really are. He's proven to be shortsighted in this way. True, he and the culture he creates has usually found a way to be competitive, but never a team since 2015 or so that you ever truly thought had the talent and know-how to seize the Grail.

I don't think we've given them enough time yet to find a guy that really works as QBOTF from the draft. Maybe Levis, but the rest of the league seemed quite down on him too - I wonder if his interviews were iffy or there's a lowkey medical flag.

2022 has no one promising, and the other 3 were out of our grasp in 2023. I think they're trying, but I don't think they're going to force capital on one they don't believe in. If an Allen or Mahomes were there, JS would've moved mountains, surely.

Sure, they could take fliers on middling prospects in the later rounds, but they don't need the backup types and I'm not sure that really qualifies as attempting to secure a QBOTF so much as it'd be a resource spent on a lottery ticket.

 

[NoGain]

I don't think we've given them enough time yet to find a guy that really works as QBOTF from the draft.

I totally and wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. Take the 9ers as an example. They tried. They may have failed with Lance, but they tried again and scored with Purdy. We didn't even try the last 4-5 years to be aggressive in going after a QBOTF in the draft, nor did we even take fliers on QB's in the later rounds.

We did nothing. There's no excuse for that when it comes to the most important position by far in all of the major team sports.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I totally and wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. Take the 9ers as an example. They tried. They may have failed with Lance, but they tried again and scored with Purdy. We didn't even try the last 4-5 years to be aggressive in going after a QBOTF in the draft, nor did we even take fliers on QB's in the later rounds.

We did nothing. There's no excuse for that when it comes to the most important position by far in all of the major team sports.

I dunno. For every Purdy there's probably 50 7th rounders that don't work out, and Purdy is mostly working out because he's in the easiest offense of all time. More passes around or behind the LOS than most anyone else can count on.

Eventually, the 49ers will have to rely on him to win games by tilting the field. I don't know that he can do that.

I still think that it's not an unforgivable sin to wait for a guy that they actually rate highly instead of taking a volume approach. JS and PC don't ignore the spot because they don't value it, they just have a decent stopgap who had an especially good 2022. I'm cool with giving them time on that.

Also, the Niners waited several years to try, to be fair. They went with a limited Garoppolo for years beforehand despite the fact that he obviously wasn't the catalyst for success. Was just a babysitter who had a talent for goofing up at big times. If we're going off their model, I mean.. they also weren't throwing new guys at the wall yearly.

 

[NoGain]

I dunno. For every Purdy there's probably 50 7th rounders that don't work out, and Purdy is mostly working out because he's in the easiest offense of all time. More passes around or behind the LOS than most anyone else can count on.

Eventually, the 49ers will have to rely on him to win games by tilting the field. I don't know that he can do that.

I still think that it's not an unforgivable sin to wait for a guy that they actually rate highly instead of taking a volume approach. JS and PC don't ignore the spot because they don't value it, they just have a decent stopgap who had an especially good 2022. I'm cool with giving them time on that.

I'm not at all forgiving of that. Stark difference of opinion. Schneider should have known that from his Packer days. They picked Rodgers to replace Farr, Love to replace Rodgers...they knew that to remain competitive at the highest level you have to always be thinking about the QB position. Sure, we may have failed, but to not try is to be almost negligent. We've just let more and more time pass and gave us less and less time to be wrong.

 

[knownone]

Not sure who you’re responding to but I’m not using hindsight. I wanted Levis and Geno for one year.

I’ve point this out before but you have to be able to self scout and do it better than anyone. A lot of smart people (obviously because it was my stance ) question if we played way over our heads last year with a near league easiest schedule and Geno playing much worse in the second half and the team as a whole. I get it man you always want to give Pete, Seahawks the benefit of the doubt as a default but I think it’s makes you a little biased at times. And yes, I tend to be more critical of Pete and the Seahawks and can be guilty of the same thing but I think it’s wrong for us to do so.

They took Hall at 37 and Levis went 33. I think that was massive mistake if they didn’t try to trade up for him. I’d much rather have Witherspoon, JSN and Levis.

It wasn't to anyone in particular.

I don't know how that pro-Seahawks characterization has defined me lately. I have no issue criticizing PC, JS, or the Seahawks, nor do I have any affinity toward them. If both were fired tomorrow, I'd call it premature (unless we crash out), but I wouldn't bat an eye. For whatever reason, my more critical comments don't gain anywhere close to the amount of traction around here. When DK was re-signed, I said good organizations don't reward players like him, and (at the time) people crushed me for hating on DK. I've also been vocal about the borderline idiotic outside-in teambuilding strategy the Seahawks front office utilizes and how it often involves investing in players coming off significant injuries. Again, people don't seem to care about those statements but go bonkers if I cite Pete Carroll's W/L record or call trading Russ the start of a rebuild.

Where I butt heads with the anti-Pete/Geno/JS crowd is in the argumentation. They tend to do one of four things: devalue past performance, treat unknowable evidence as fact, evaluate with the benefit of hindsight, or make hyperbolic arguments. These are all things I loathe in any debate, and I will almost always argue against them.

As for your point, it's a fair one. They played the 13th toughest SoS last season if you looked at combined opponent wins, so I'll take your point to mean they overperformed regardless of specifics. But even if I thought the team overperformed last offseason, I wouldn't have drafted Levis. With the benefit of hindsight, knowing we might miss the playoffs, knowing Geno would battle injuries and Hall would struggle, maybe. But at the time? No. I liked Levis. But I don't think there is any guarantee he'll pan out and become a top-ten QB. And at that point, you are investing a pick into a guy who won't start and may never be significantly better than the guy you have. We already have that guy. His name is Drew Lock.

 

[themunn]

I'm not at all forgiving of that. Stark difference of opinion. Schneider should have known that from his Packer days. They picked Rodgers to replace Farr, Love to replace Rodgers...they knew that to remain competitive at the highest level you have to always be thinking about the QB position. Sure, we may have failed, but to not try is to be almost negligent. We've just let more and more time pass and gave us less and less time to be wrong.

They traded for Favre in 92, drafted Rodgers in 05, drafted Love in 2020.

So on average they trade for or draft a QB highly every 14 years. Is that "always thinking about the QB"?