Will Levis

[renofox]

They traded for Favre in 92, drafted Rodgers in 05, drafted Love in 2020.

So on average they trade for or draft a QB highly every 14 years. Is that "always thinking about the QB"?

Schneider was in Green Bay in the early '90s, jumped around a little, then was back in GB til 2010.

During that period, GB drafted:

1992 Detmer
1993 Brunnell
1995 Barker
1996 Waccholz
1997 Machado
1998 Hasselbeck
1999 Brooks
2002 Nall
2005 Rodgers
2006 Martin
2008 Flynn

11 QBs in 16 years. They recouped in trade value about what they spent.

With PC: 2 QBs in 14 years.

When JS came here, he said he was going to use GB's constant draft model for QBs. He didn't.

The GB model works. Seattle's doesn’t.

 

[Jac]

Schneider was in Green Bay in the early '90s, jumped around a little, then was back in GB til 2010.

During that period, GB drafted:

1992 Detmer
1993 Brunnell
1995 Barker
1996 Waccholz
1997 Machado
1998 Hasselbeck
1999 Brooks
2002 Nall
2005 Rodgers
2006 Martin
2008 Flynn

11 QBs in 16 years. They recouped in trade value about what they spent.

With PC: 2 QBs in 14 years.

When JS came here, he said he was going to use GB's constant draft model for QBs. He didn't.

The GB model works. Seattle's doesn’t.

Ugh, that's painful to see. Half of those drafted QBs were viable players too. We've drafted Russell Wilson in 2012 and Alex McGough (7th rounder in 2018). That's just negligent draft/roster management, in part because we piss away draft capital on ill-advised trades.

 

[themunn]

Schneider was in Green Bay in the early '90s, jumped around a little, then was back in GB til 2010.

During that period, GB drafted:

1992 Detmer
1993 Brunnell
1995 Barker
1996 Waccholz
1997 Machado
1998 Hasselbeck
1999 Brooks
2002 Nall
2005 Rodgers
2006 Martin
2008 Flynn

11 QBs in 16 years. They recouped in trade value about what they spent.

With PC: 2 QBs in 14 years.

When JS came here, he said he was going to use GB's constant draft model for QBs. He didn't.

The GB model works. Seattle's doesn’t.

So they threw a bunch of 5th and 7th rounders at backups QBs in the 90s with no hope of starting over Favre (and what do you know, none of them got a single start for the Packers), then stopped when they got Rodgers

The only picks that worked for them were a 1st and 2nd round pick on Rodgers and Love respectively, and both of those were used after they'd gotten more than a decade out of their 3x and 4xMVP QBs

 

[Maelstrom787]

We got a viable player for essentially free in Geno Smith, though.

That model that Green Bay has resulted in a lot of wasted talent and draft capital just to languish behind their entrenched starters, and then they spent a higher pick on Love who is still questionable in terms of caliber (but improving).

I dont get the criticism. Drafting a million quarterbacks late would've resulted in a bunch of them simply being wasted, cut, or poached from practice squads for a decade until one of them started post-Russell, and then they'd be in all likelihood equal to or worse than cheap free agent Geno Smith.

What's the real complaint here?

 

[sutz]

Actually, GB back in the day used to draft low round QBs, train them up for a couple few years and then trade them for more draft capital. They weren't drafting them as future starters, only as future draft capital, thinking a QB with a couple of seasons as backups were worth more than a low round rookie QB.

 

[Jac]

We got a viable player for essentially free in Geno Smith, though.

That model that Green Bay has resulted in a lot of wasted talent and draft capital just to languish behind their entrenched starters, and then they spent a higher pick on Love who is still questionable in terms of caliber (but improving).

I dont get the criticism. Drafting a million quarterbacks late would've resulted in a bunch of them simply being wasted, cut, or poached from practice squads for a decade until one of them started post-Russell, and then they'd be in all likelihood equal to or worse than cheap free agent Geno Smith.

What's the real complaint here?

The best way to find a QB is to draft a QB. Most won't work out, but a few will. It worked with Wilson. The alternative is to find "servicable" retread QBs from other teams like Tarvaris Jackson, Geno Smith, Drew Lock. Hopefully we'll have new leadership with a new philosophy soon.

 

[KinesProf]

Levis is solid. I like his makeup and toughness.

Feels like he's going to be one of those solid to adequate starting calibre QBs that you would ideally always be hoping to upgrade from (Teddy, Dalton, Jimmy G, Carr range). Nothing to sneeze at, really.

 

[Ozzy]

Levis is solid. I like his makeup and toughness.

Feels like he's going to be one of those solid to adequate starting calibre QBs that you would ideally always be hoping to upgrade from (Teddy, Dalton, Jimmy G, Carr range). Nothing to sneeze at, really.

Yeah even though I'm high on him I think this is the most likely outcome. I hope he ends up being the next tier up but it's not a guarantee. He's easy to root for though with his passion.

 

[Flyingsquad23]

The guy puts mayonnaise in his coffee…

I don’t see much more than Jake Locker 2.0, and the fact that Henry doesn’t have many miles left things could get tougher for Levis.

 

[renofox]

So they threw a bunch of 5th and 7th rounders at backups QBs in the 90s with no hope of starting over Favre (and what do you know, none of them got a single start for the Packers), then stopped when they got Rodgers

The only picks that worked for them were a 1st and 2nd round pick on Rodgers and Love respectively, and both of those were used after they'd gotten more than a decade out of their 3x and 4xMVP QBs

Wrong. They threw a lot of late rounders at QBs, used them as backups during their rookie contracts, then traded them for high draft picks near their last year.

Detmer, Brunnell, Hasselbeck, Brooks, and Flynn all got GB back more than they spent in draft capital. They also had good backups for almost no cost the entire time.

This is quite a different philosophy than never taking a QB. It's also an interesting take that this system "didn't work for them". They made a profit and almost always had a starting level QB ready to take over when they lost their starter.

Just because GB never had a big need for them because of their tremendous luck in starters remaining healthy does not mean the team did not benefit greatly.

 

[knownone]

The NFL is different than it was in the 90s. The odds of a team trading significant capital for a late-round quarterback are very low. What's the most recent example of a trade where the backup went on to do anything?

 

[nanomoz]

The guy puts mayonnaise in his coffee…

I don’t see much more than Jake Locker 2.0, and the fact that Henry doesn’t have many miles left things could get tougher for Levis.

I see few milarities with Jake Locker. *shrug*

Levis would have benefited from more time on the sidelines. But I wouldn't bet against him. He's behind the worst line in the league. And doesn't exactly have spectacular receivers.

For a plus athlete, he is a little stiff in the pocket. But that's true of a lot of guys that have had success.

 

[renofox]

The NFL is different than it was in the 90s. The odds of a team trading significant capital for a late-round quarterback are very low. What's the most recent example of a trade where the backup went on to do anything?

BB used the GB model. Got good capital trading away Garappolo, Brisset, Mallet, Hoyer, Cassel, and Bledsoe. There's been other trades for backups that earned day 1 or 2 trade capital but, you're right, it's not a widespread strategy.

My point was that JS said he would use it here, but he has done the extreme opposite. Not trying to develop any QBs at all in 14 years? Not good, imo.

 

[knownone]

BB used the GB model. Got good capital trading away Garappolo, Brisset, Mallet, Hoyer, Cassel, and Bledsoe. There's been other trades for backups that earned day 1 or 2 trade capital but, you're right, it's not a widespread strategy.

My point was that JS said he would use it here, but he has done the extreme opposite. Not trying to develop any QBs at all in 14 years? Not good, imo.

Did he, though? Besides Cassel, I'm not sure BB broke even on those other trades. Jimmy G was a second-round pick, and he was traded for a second-round pick four years later (that's a lousy ROI). Mallet was a 3rd rounder traded for a 6th. Brissett was a 3rd round pick traded for a 1st round-bust whose career hasn't gone anywhere. Hoyer wasn't traded after being drafted. He was released. Similarly, Belichick didn't draft Bledsoe, and unlike those other guys, Bledsoe was then the number 1 overall pick. So, he doesn't precisely fit the GB model.

My hunch is that, unlike the 90s, most NFL teams have an economist now. And someone told JS that it made bad investment sense. Most QBs, who are drafted after the first round, wash out of the league. They rarely become starters, and it is even rarer that they become sought-after by other teams.

 

[NoGain]

Did he, though? Besides Cassel, I'm not sure BB broke even on those other trades. Jimmy G was a second-round pick, and he was traded for a second-round pick four years later (that's a lousy ROI). Mallet was a 3rd rounder traded for a 6th. Brissett was a 3rd round pick traded for a 1st round-bust whose career hasn't gone anywhere. Hoyer wasn't traded after being drafted. He was released. Similarly, Belichick didn't draft Bledsoe, and unlike those other guys, Bledsoe was then the number 1 overall pick. So, he doesn't precisely fit the GB model.

My hunch is that, unlike the 90s, most NFL teams have an economist now. And someone told JS that it made bad investment sense. Most QBs, who are drafted after the first round, wash out of the league. They rarely become starters, and it is even rarer that they become sought-after by other teams.

NOBOBY around here realistically thinks that drafting a top QB prospect, or taking shots at lower tier QB's that just *might* pan out is a guarantee. But most of us should realistically know that having a true franchise QB is the Holy Grail of all team sports. This can't be ignored. It's always the elephant in the room.

Unless you've got a realistically proven franchise QB with a considerable runway in front of them, you should always be on the hunt for that guy.

 

[knownone]

NOBOBY around here realistically thinks that drafting a top QB prospect, or taking shots at lower tier QB's that just *might* pan out is a guarantee. But most of us should realistically know that having a true franchise QB is the Holy Grail of all team sports. This can't be ignored. It's always the elephant in the room.

Unless you've got a realistically proven franchise QB with a considerable runway in front of them, you should always be on the hunt for that guy.

NOBODY made that claim. My point was that you shouldn't spend significant draft capital on QBs with the intent to flip them later for picks. History tells us that rarely works out. Obviously, teams should be on the lookout for franchise QBs. The problem is that past round two those guys are exceptionally rare.

 

[Jac]

My hunch is that, unlike the 90s, most NFL teams have an economist now. And someone told JS that it made bad investment sense. Most QBs, who are drafted after the first round, wash out of the league. They rarely become starters, and it is even rarer that they become sought-after by other teams.

You can say that about any position group.

"Only 28.2 percent of players drafted in Rounds 4, 5, 6 and 7 were retained at the end of their first contract—which is a number that is largely supported by an abundance of fourth-round picks re-upping. Rounds 5, 6 and 7 made up 16.7 percent of the 28.2 percent total."

 

[SonicHawk]

Trash Levis

 

[knownone]

You can say that about any position group.

"Only 28.2 percent of players drafted in Rounds 4, 5, 6 and 7 were retained at the end of their first contract—which is a number that is largely supported by an abundance of fourth-round picks re-upping. Rounds 5, 6 and 7 made up 16.7 percent of the 28.2 percent total."

What? You might want to re-read what I wrote.

 

[CactusJack]

Trash Levis

I'm still not impressed.