Why '23 will be better than '22: Front 7

[renofox]

There are very, very few NTs that can play 80% snap so expect to see a rotation at NT. Also, interesting to see how the team is focusing on younger players at NT.

True, but I saw posted somewhere here that 0/1 tech alignment was only used on <30% of snaps last year?

Maybe they won't be needing alot of snaps from their young NTs this year?

 

[morgulon1]

LOL, I never played ball ... what do I know? My roommate in college tried out to play Center at our SEC program. He was too small and way too slow, so he ended up roommate with he. I remember him to be 6'2" 250-260lbs, that was the '70s, players were smaller then.

In the 60s and 70s a 250 pound man was a "big dude". It still is, but safeties
are getting near that size

 

[toffee]

In the 60s and 70s a 250 pound man was a "big dude". It still is, but safeties
are getting near that size

He was a Giant to my eyes, and, although he was too slow to make the team, he was way fast than me lol.

 

[nanomoz]

Mario Edwards gives the Hawks another strong run defender that can play anywhere from over the guard to over the tackle's outside shoulder.

The '23 defensive line is going to be much better. It doesn't need to be elite, it just needs to be solid. A simply below-average run defense last year probably nets the Hawks at least 2 or 3 more victories out of the Carolina, New Orleans, Atlanta, and Tampa Bay games.

 

[morgulon1]

He was a Giant to my eyes, and, although he was too slow to make the team, he was way fast than me lol.

So, not only could he kick your ass.

He could catch you ... then kick your ass.

 

[morgulon1]

Mario Edwards gives the Hawks another strong run defender that can play anywhere from over the guard to over the tackle's outside shoulder.

The '23 defensive line is going to be much better. It doesn't need to be elite, it just needs to be solid. A simply below-average run defense last year probably nets the Hawks at least 2 or 3 more victories out of the Carolina, New Orleans, Atlanta, and Tampa Bay games.

Yep. They certainly appeared to upgrade that group. They don't have to have a premiere NT or DE . They need to shut down the run first , then be able to disrupt the passer.

 

[toffee]

So, not only could he kick your ass.

He could catch you ... then kick your ass.

we played football once, I was running with the ball dreaming of a TD, he caught me from behind and *&^% tackled me. All I remember of flying flying flying and crashed landed lol.

 

[Scout]

True, but I saw posted somewhere here that 0/1 tech alignment was only used on <30% of snaps last year?

Maybe they won't be needing alot of snaps from their young NTs this year?

That is a possibility. We will have to see how they come out in alignments during pre season.

 

[Kamcussionator]

Thats what I was thinking but I don't know much haha.

What's the magic weight for NT? 300? 330? My question is what if you have a guy but he's only 290? That 30-40 LB might make a difference over a 60 minute game but what if they were a little smaller but frequently rotated ?

Just discussing

There’s no magic weight really if you’re strong enough. Weight makes you harder to move, but 300# vs 330 is really not a significant difference to these guys.

For instance, Aaron Donald would pick Joey Hunt up and throw him at RW, even though AD was under 300# playing nose and JH was over 300# playing center.

 

[morgulon1]

There’s no magic weight really if you’re strong enough. Weight makes you harder to move, but 300# vs 330 is really not a significant difference to these guys.

For instance, Aaron Donald would pick Joey Hunt up and throw him at RW, even though AD was under 300# playing nose and JH was over 300# playing center.

That's my original point . If you have a guy that is 290# but gets it, it doesn't matter. Some of your better NT are squatty and 290ish but have strength and leverage

 

[Bear-Hawk]

The average NT weighs 324 and the Hall of Fame NTs average 334. That’s a fact. There are some exceptions, but they are exceptions. It’s a moot point now, because Young reportedly has added enough weight to get up to 320’s.

 

[AgentDib]

I'm curious about the source of those facts, since there haven't been many DTs total who have made the HOF let alone NTs. Last I saw Fred Smerlas was still waiting and he was one of the best. HOF is very skewed towards sack production which NTs don't get enough of.

- Culp played 0T at ~265lbs
- Cortez and Sapp were ~305lb 3Ts
- Mean Joe Greene, played 1T (he called it "titled nose tackle") at ~275lbs
- Alan Page mostly played 2T for the purple people eaters, but played at least some 0tech at sub 250lbs.

Who are the 334lb+ NTs in the Hall of Fame?

 

[hawkfan68]

I'm curious about the source of those facts, since there haven't been many DTs total who have made the HOF let alone NTs. Last I saw Fred Smerlas was still waiting and he was one of the best. HOF is very skewed towards sack production which NTs don't get enough of.

- Culp played 0T at ~265lbs
- Cortez and Sapp were ~305lb 3Ts
- Mean Joe Greene, played 1T (he called it "titled nose tackle") at ~275lbs
- Alan Page mostly played 2T for the purple people eaters, but played at least some 0tech at sub 250lbs.

Who are the 334lb+ NTs in the Hall of Fame?

The game has evolved quite a bit through the years. Today's NFL is much different than the 70s, 80s, 90s or even 2000s. He's not in the HOF yet but I'm sure he will get in - Haloti Ngata. When you think of prototypical type of NT, he's the one I picture.

 

[nivs]

335 lbs, but he has short 31" arms, and no much of a pass rusher

Robert Cooper - Philadelphia Defensive Tackle - ESPN

View the profile of Philadelphia Defensive Tackle Robert Cooper on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.

www.espn.com

Robert Cooper

seminoles.com

Michael Dean (Gator Arms) Perry went to the Pro Bowl 6 times during his pretty good career with the Cleveland Browns.

 

[toffee]

Michael Dean (Gator Arms) Perry went to the Pro Bowl 6 times during his pretty good career with the Cleveland Browns.

Now you have me fired up,

 

[Bear-Hawk]

I'm curious about the source of those facts, since there haven't been many DTs total who have made the HOF let alone NTs. Last I saw Fred Smerlas was still waiting and he was one of the best. HOF is very skewed towards sack production which NTs don't get enough of.

- Culp played 0T at ~265lbs
- Cortez and Sapp were ~305lb 3Ts
- Mean Joe Greene, played 1T (he called it "titled nose tackle") at ~275lbs
- Alan Page mostly played 2T for the purple people eaters, but played at least some 0tech at sub 250lbs.

Who are the 334lb+ NTs in the Hall of Fame?

Part of problem is defining NT. A NT lines up straight over the center and stands his ground against double teams from the center and guard. They average 324 pounds. There are exceptions, and you can’t dispute the 324 number with the exceptions. I invite you to do the same research I did on HOF nose tackles. They average 334 pounds. Bottom line: weight is a clear advantage at NT, and that is why Young bulked up from 309 to the 320’s.

 

[Scout]

Randle, Sapp, Donald all came out of college under 300 lbs but they also were not asked to play NT that much. They could play NT in a pinch, but it would have been a waste of their respective talent which is why they are recognized as 3 techs.

Honestly any NT north of 300 lbs can do the job on a consistent basis especially in a one gap scheme.

 

[CostaRicaHawk]

Part of problem is defining NT. A NT lines up straight over the center and stands his ground against double teams from the center and guard. They average 324 pounds. There are exceptions, and you can’t dispute the 324 number with the exceptions. I invite you to do the same research I did on HOF nose tackles. They average 334 pounds. Bottom line: weight is a clear advantage at NT, and that is why Young bulked up from 309 to the 320’s.

I would be interested in your research. The site I am looking at I only saw 17 DT and 3 DT/DE. Looked at all of them and there was only 3 above 300#'s.

https://www.profootballhof.com/players/?pg=1&position=DT
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_DT.htm
Anywhere from 245 to 305? Where you getting your info?

Edited for adding another link. Will post names and weight when I get a chance. Not even close to an average of 300 LBS for HOF. More like 268 lbs

HOF DT
Kevin Williams 311
Cortez Kennedy 305
Warren Sapp 303
Bryant Young 291
John Randle 290
Joe Greene 275
Buck Buchanon 270
Merlin Olson 270
Curly Culp 265
Joe Klecko 264
Art Donovan 263
Bob Lilly 260
Leo Nomellini 259
Randy White 257
Henry Jordan 248
Alex Karras 248
Alan Page 245
Arnie Weinmeister 235
Ernie Stautner 230

Where are the 334 Lb guys?????

 

[JPPT1974]

They just needed to get their chemistry and teamwork act together. Think that they are much more settled and much more know what they are doing.

 

[AgentDib]

I invite you to do the same research I did on HOF nose tackles. They average 334 pounds.

We can agree to disagree, but if you are presenting a highly unlikely argument as a fact with no evidence then telling me to do my own research is not persuasive. I listed Kennedy and Sapp as the two HOF DTs that I could think of being over 300 lbs, and both were prototype 3 techs.

The truth is that big run stoppers have a largely thankless job that doesn't show up in the stat sheet. Somebody mentioned HOF 3tech Kevin Williams above, who usually just had a single guard to deal with as Pat Williams clogged up the middle of that Vikings defense but received far fewer accolades for it.