Why '23 will be better than '22: Offensive weapons

[Hawkmode]

Good response...which is why I don't mind our banter. Pointing out the Patriots as going against my take on the NFL as a "business" of tv ratings...is why many people suspect there is an unhealthy relationship between the NFL Commish and the Patriots owner. (although I must admit...lately the plight of the Patriots should quiet those suspicions) I give Belicheck and Brady their props for what they accomplish entering the playoffs. I wouldn't be honest if I didn't admit it felt like they had an easier time accumulating regular season wins playing in the AFC East when a real divisional rival didn't seem to exist during their "glory years"...my Seahawk bias showing up perhaps. Your take on regular season wins being nothing to boast about is why at first I thought you were a dedicated troller...but now you come across as a disgruntled fan and there are quite a few it seems.
I respect most of those who don't share my own
optimism...but I do feel assured the team is ascending in a very strong fashion toward renewed respect outside of our fan base.

I realize the lure of repeated deep forays into playoffs has become a standard ...that defies how the business end of the NFL sets the tone of talent drain (less money in free agency/lower draft resources) and a financial cap that limits how many fan favorites/stars can be kept around from year to year. Dynasties are "bad for business" so keeping a winning program really is difficult without strong efforts from all the coaches and in particular the teams Head Coach and GM.

My own take is I enjoy a Coach who sets a culture of getting the best of acquired talent and putting a team that never quits on the field...a fan can invest emotionally knowing their team is in it to the end. A quick diversion...our defense was very much maligned last year...but the Chiefs were given their worst offensive output last year regardless of their eventual win. Even the casual fan will not confuse our 2023 defense with "our past 5 years". Looking forward to them "proving it".

 

[pittpnthrs]

Good response...which is why I don't mind our banter. Pointing out the Patriots as going against my take on the NFL as a "business" of tv ratings...is why many people suspect there is an unhealthy relationship between the NFL Commish and the Patriots owner. (although I must admit...lately the plight of the Patriots should quiet those suspicions) I give Belicheck and Brady their props for what they accomplish entering the playoffs. I wouldn't be honest if I didn't admit it felt like they had an easier time accumulating regular season wins playing in the AFC East when a real divisional rival didn't seem to exist during their "glory years"...my Seahawk bias showing up perhaps. Your take on regular season wins being nothing to boast about is why at first I thought you were a dedicated troller...but now you come across as a disgruntled fan and there are quite a few it seems.
I respect most of those who don't share my own
optimism...but I do feel assured the team is ascending in a very strong fashion toward renewed respect outside of our fan base.

I realize the lure of repeated deep forays into playoffs has become a standard ...that defies how the business end of the NFL sets the tone of talent drain (less money in free agency/lower draft resources) and a financial cap that limits how many fan favorites/stars can be kept around from year to year. Dynasties are "bad for business" so keeping a winning program really is difficult without strong efforts from all the coaches and in particular the teams Head Coach and GM.

My own take is I enjoy a Coach who sets a culture of getting the best of acquired talent and putting a team that never quits on the field...a fan can invest emotionally knowing their team is in it to the end. A quick diversion...our defense was very much maligned last year...but the Chiefs were given their worst offensive output last year regardless of their eventual win. Even the casual fan will not confuse our 2023 defense with "our past 5 years". Looking forward to them "proving it".

I respect your posts and opinions also as you are able to see and understand both sides of the coin and show respect to posters that dont share the same as you. As for the Patriots, you'll get no argument from me that they feasted on a weak division for years, but in the same sense they performed admirably in the post season too against stronger opponents as you pointed out. So regardless of their division, they were always legit. That's the difference between them and the post 2015 Seahawks in my opinion. Sure Seattle made playoff appearances, but I never felt they had much of a shot once they got there and it turned out that they didnt.

You also bring up good points about parity. It's good for the league. Everybody benefits. That being said, I have to take a step back and give Carroll credit where credit is due. He has kept Seattle relevant during his time and he's rebuilding the team again. My issue is that I feel he doesnt have the time to complete it and I feel he still has tendencies that can be detrimental to it. I'll leave it at that. If I go into anymore detail, i'll get crucified as usual.

The defense should be better, but again, by how much? I still worry about the LB's (Bobby's old and Brooks will miss time and will be coming off of injuries). Secondary is young, but hopefully solid. Pass rush is always a concern. Nwosu had 9.5 sacks last year, but those were the quietest sacks i've ever known. Hopefully he can duplicate that output. The line seem's to be improved, but its always a revolving door. Just seem's the changes always come, but either the players arent in position to execute due to the scheme or when they finally gel, its to late. We'll have to wait and see.

I am a disgruntled fan. So much so that I cant wait for the next phase and change. I feel the current regime is tired and has done all they can. It's probable the next step will be a stumble, but thats fine with me because I believe the team and organization is stuck. Most fans are happy with that though as they believe it'll get dug out. I'm not. I'm ready to take the next step.

 

[CallMeADawg]

I respect your posts and opinions also as you are able to see and understand both sides of the coin and show respect to posters that dont share the same as you. As for the Patriots, you'll get no argument from me that they feasted on a weak division for years, but in the same sense they performed admirably in the post season too against stronger opponents as you pointed out. So regardless of their division, they were always legit. That's the difference between them and the post 2015 Seahawks in my opinion. Sure Seattle made playoff appearances, but I never felt they had much of a shot once they got there and it turned out that they didnt.

You also bring up good points about parity. It's good for the league. Everybody benefits. That being said, I have to take a step back and give Carroll credit where credit is due. He has kept Seattle relevant during his time and he's rebuilding the team again. My issue is that I feel he doesnt have the time to complete it and I feel he still has tendencies that can be detrimental to it. I'll leave it at that. If I go into anymore detail, i'll get crucified as usual.

The defense should be better, but again, by how much? I still worry about the LB's (Bobby's old and Brooks will miss time and will be coming off of injuries). Secondary is young, but hopefully solid. Pass rush is always a concern. Nwosu had 9.5 sacks last year, but those were the quietest sacks i've ever known. Hopefully he can duplicate that output. The line seem's to be improved, but its always a revolving door. Just seem's the changes always come, but either the players arent in position to execute due to the scheme or when they finally gel, its to late. We'll have to wait and see.

I am a disgruntled fan. So much so that I cant wait for the next phase and change. I feel the current regime is tired and has done all they can. It's probable the next step will be a stumble, but thats fine with me because I believe the team and organization is stuck. Most fans are happy with that though as they believe it'll get dug out. I'm not. I'm ready to take the next step.

Blah blah, no data, useless response.

Wall of useless and boring text that intellectual people will have to wade through on their way to useful data and discourse.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Blah blah, no data, useless response.

Wall of useless and boring text that intellectual people will have to wade through on their way to useful data and discourse.

You are something else dude. If you need stats and numbers in every post, you might be better off checking out PFF. Seriously dude, take your ritalin and chill.

 

[CallMeADawg]

You are something else dude. If you need stats and numbers in every post, you might be better off checking out PFF. Seriously dude, take your ritalin and chill.

You have not once provided any data to support your aged and useless responses.

I don't use nor need Ritalin, but that's pretty poor form to denigrate the disabled folks that might need that.

So you're not just allergic to data, you're also allergic to humanity.

Well done, asshole.

 

[Hawkmode]

I respect your posts and opinions also as you are able to see and understand both sides of the coin and show respect to posters that dont share the same as you. As for the Patriots, you'll get no argument from me that they feasted on a weak division for years, but in the same sense they performed admirably in the post season too against stronger opponents as you pointed out. So regardless of their division, they were always legit. That's the difference between them and the post 2015 Seahawks in my opinion. Sure Seattle made playoff appearances, but I never felt they had much of a shot once they got there and it turned out that they didnt.

You also bring up good points about parity. It's good for the league. Everybody benefits. That being said, I have to take a step back and give Carroll credit where credit is due. He has kept Seattle relevant during his time and he's rebuilding the team again. My issue is that I feel he doesnt have the time to complete it and I feel he still has tendencies that can be detrimental to it. I'll leave it at that. If I go into anymore detail, i'll get crucified as usual.

The defense should be better, but again, by how much? I still worry about the LB's (Bobby's old and Brooks will miss time and will be coming off of injuries). Secondary is young, but hopefully solid. Pass rush is always a concern. Nwosu had 9.5 sacks last year, but those were the quietest sacks i've ever known. Hopefully he can duplicate that output. The line seem's to be improved, but its always a revolving door. Just seem's the changes always come, but either the players arent in position to execute due to the scheme or when they finally gel, its to late. We'll have to wait and see.

I am a disgruntled fan. So much so that I cant wait for the next phase and change. I feel the current regime is tired and has done all they can. It's probable the next step will be a stumble, but thats fine with me because I believe the team and organization is stuck. Most fans are happy with that though as they believe it'll get dug out. I'm not. I'm ready to take the next step.

Its easy for a teams fan base to "find fault" with their team when we live in a climate of being deserving of better ...what have you done for me lately? I'm unhappy and need to lash out with blame...it's a mindset that finds little happiness "in small victories". We want something to boast about with like minded people and we get lured into having unreasonable expectations by looking at "others" currently in a position to boast...as an RW quote "Why not us?"

I am a Seahawk fan foremost and have mixed feelings about Russell leaving. He delivered a satisfying flavor of excitement while being supported by an approving coach and the supportive skill set of an intimidating Defense and an "underdog" WR in Doug Baldwin and even the support of a "bully" type RB in Marshawn Lynch. It was "feel good" story lines and a "feel good" fan experience...there was no visible dissension of "picking" who was better...Russ or Pete? They were like Sonny and Cher...the embodiment of a good relationship...until the bitterness of "betrayal" seemed to take hold. Russ became privileged...coddled by sudden attention from the NFL Commishioner...he suspected that maybe his O-line was not "looking out for him"...perhaps Pete was "holding him back" as he began to hear his name and MVP bandied about...now his "why not us" mantle was shifting to "Why not me".

Seattle's culture under Pete has been one that unites team mates through genuine competition and helping the team feel that every member had the back of each other. Each did and played his best ...building strong trust to make their rallying cry of "We're all we got...We're all we need" have substantive inspiration.

A fan's roller coaster of strong emotions often pales to what players (who have invested their livelihood) experience. The exhilaration of winning a Super Bowl was pure adrenaline...very addictive to feel and sometimes dangerous to pursue. The NFL is stocked full of "alpha" males able to draw strong pride from within and a desire to compete at being the best. A good Head Coach knows how to channel that energy in a focused direction.

Pete had the team and especially the Defense "running hot" the following year...the team believed in itself as being destined to repeat.

There was a tv show called the Wide World of Sports "back in the day" whose opening film montage included the words "the agony of defeat"...that agony exploded so unexpectedly...shock and denial shook the team and its adoring fan base...the bond of trust suddenly had a glaring crack.

As the shock wore off...anger filled its void ...blame focused on two directions of "betrayal". Was it Russ? Wanting to "steal" the glory from a strong "friend" of the Defense...the powerful running of RB Marshawn Lynch. Perhaps he was bold enough to audible out of the play called in? Questions and suspicions tore at the heart of a well deserving defense. It "didn't feel" like the better team had "won"...so where did the "betrayal" come from? Who "failed" to execute...was it a team mate?...or worse...was it our Coach?

Pete knew the strong emotions that accompany "championship" games and understood the destructive energy that can result from a bitter loss...he quickly shouldered blame and the difficult task of "damage control" with a team that was built on trust and unwavering loyalty.

Some "trust" issues lingered into the following seasons...the team "buy-in" in bonding was an early casualty. Sherm lashed out in his usual outspoken manner of how he now hated the "Rah Rah" enthusiasm Pete infused into team meetings...what's so good about the feeling of betrayal? Professionals continue to play on self pride but the commitment of "heart and soul" seemed lost. Pete has struggled to recapture the strengths of the culture he has maintained.

The NFL seemed ok with the loss of a "team of thugs" (as envious outsiders often viewed us) and now as free agency (fueled by new television contracts) distributed "equity"...an eagerness emerged to make Football more "exciting"...the sacrifice? No more smothering defenses...rule alterations became bolder as the balance between offense and defense began a strong pull to the passing game...Defenses and their strong "bodyguards" (the RB) were deemed passe'

This was "new territory" and ran counter to Pete's own philosophy of a "winning template". Pete's "old" formula was tried and true and still accumulated wins and playoff "visits" as "lessons learned" piled up without true results allowing us to advance with authority.

The NFL's passing game and all it requires could no longer be denied if we were ever to return to a Super Bowl and the adulation heaped on by its winners relevance and respect.

Wow I've really been blathering...its almost like I was enjoying telling my viewpoint of why I still enjoy Pete as a coach and the team as a constant source of my chosen entertainment. Sorry for the lengthy discourse...

 

[keasley45]

I am a disgruntled fan. So much so that I cant wait for the next phase and change. I feel the current regime is tired and has done all they can. It's probable the next step will be a stumble, but thats fine with me because I believe the team and organization is stuck. Most fans are happy with that though as they believe it'll get dug out. I'm not. I'm ready to take the next step.

When you feel like this, it becomes difficult to see anything for what it actually is.

In any walk of life, in any endeavor, if you fail, ones ability to overcome that failure hinges on an ability to evaluate performance, determine what went wrong, make adjustments, and move forward hopefully better than before. Sometimes multiple small failures can be tied back to a common source.

Our playoff futility, our draft profile, our patchwork approach to plugging a gutted LOB... so much of what ailed this team and its culture since our last SB appearance had to do NOT with the inability of the FO and coaches, but the fatal decision to pursue a course where we hitched our future to the wrong player (s) / coaches - mostly one player. Thats not Pete love or 'player' hate. Its truth thats been shown in the performance of both the team and FO since that strategy was abandoned. Its also been discussed adnauseum on podcasts by former players.

And that doesnt absolve Pete of blame. HE was the one who dismantled a dynasty, letting players walk that he should have kept, compromising the overall talent of the team, in favor of good guys, and high effort players that fit a safe profile. Giving extended opportunity to guys (coaches and pkayers) that he should have cut bait with.

THOSE were the things that occurred over a period that led to the performance we saw on the field. You can say , 'yeah , but it wasn't just x or y' , and that's not wrong. But many of the faults can be tied back to the above.

If you entertain the notion that THAT was our flaw, and evaluate our performance through that lens, it's a lot easier to make sense of not just the past, but the present and future potential of this FO, coaches and the franchise as a whole.

Pete made a few critical mistakes. You can see that as a reason to move on. Or you can look at even the last 7 years and say that even when we charted a course down a road that could not lead to sustained success, he still managed to keep the team in the fight. It's not as though deciding to build around Russ and all that entailed was some foolish gamble. Russ was a great talent. But we stayed the course too long.

That 'original sin' has been corrected (it seems). He's built a unified team again, competition is back, and I don't think any player or coach will benefit from the grace those before were given should their performance negatively impact the team.

But even I will say that if Hurtt doesn't show he has the chops to cut it as DC and Pete doesn't make a change in the same way he let Norton try, try and try again, that enough is enough.

As to the team. Like last year, the arrow is pointed way up. They've built solidly in areas where, through the draft and FA they could extract max value, ie - they didnt see the comparitve value in interior DLine that they saw in other areas. Applying, a 'yeah but, look what they did between 2015 and 2021', kind of doesn't make sense at this point. Different team, different approach, and an obvious return to a formula that brought this city its only championship.

 

[BlueTalon]

Blah blah, no data, useless response.

Wall of useless and boring text that intellectual people will have to wade through on their way to useful data and discourse.

That's unfair. I tend to see Pitt as a perennial pessimist, but that was a well thought out and considerate response.

 

[Hawkmode]

When you feel like this, it becomes difficult to see anything for what it actually is.

In any walk of life, in any endeavor, if you fail, ones ability to overcome that failure hinges on an ability to evaluate performance, determine what went wrong, make adjustments, and move forward hopefully better than before. Sometimes multiple small failures can be tied back to a common source.

Our playoff futility, our draft profile, our patchwork approach to plugging a gutted LOB... so much of what ailed this team and its culture since our last SB appearance had to do NOT with the inability of the FO and coaches, but the fatal decision to pursue a course where we hitched our future to the wrong player (s) / coaches - mostly one player. Thats not Pete love or 'player' hate. Its truth thats been shown in the performance of both the team and FO since that strategy was abandoned. Its also been discussed adnauseum on podcasts by former players.

And that doesnt absolve Pete of blame. HE was the one who dismantled a dynasty, letting players walk that he should have kept, compromising the overall talent of the team, in favor of good guys, and high effort players that fit a safe profile. Giving extended opportunity to guys (coaches and pkayers) that he should have cut bait with.

THOSE were the things that occurred over a period that led to the performance we saw on the field. You can say , 'yeah , but it wasn't just x or y' , and that's not wrong. But many of the faults can be tied back to the above.

If you entertain the notion that THAT was our flaw, and evaluate our performance through that lens, it's a lot easier to make sense of not just the past, but the present and future potential of this FO, coaches and the franchise as a whole.

Pete made a few critical mistakes. You can see that as a reason to move on. Or you can look at even the last 7 years and say that even when we charted a course down a road that could not lead to sustained success, he still managed to keep the team in the fight. It's not as though deciding to build around Russ and all that entailed was some foolish gamble. Russ was a great talent. But we stayed the course too long.

That 'original sin' has been corrected (it seems). He's built a unified team again, competition is back, and I don't think any player or coach will benefit from the grace those before were given should their performance negatively impact the team.

But even I will say that if Hurtt doesn't show he has the chops to cut it as DC and Pete doesn't make a change in the same way he let Norton try, try and try again, that enough is enough.

As to the team. Like last year, the arrow is pointed way up. They've built solidly in areas where, through the draft and FA they could extract max value, ie - they didnt see the comparitve value in interior DLine that they saw in other areas. Applying, a 'yeah but, look what they did between 2015 and 2021', kind of doesn't make sense at this point. Different team, different approach, and an obvious return to a formula that brought this city its only championship.

Well said...I think we started our move from Old approach to New acceptance by realizing our Denver trade offered a rare opportunity to "rebuild"...yet instead of stumbling we actually moved ahead. The modern NFL is pass heavy with rules supporting an aerial attack.

In preparation we hired and promoted coaches to make full use of the talent we were about to inject. Shane Waldron and his O-line coach pal Andy Dickerson were hired from the Rams to give us a more imaginative offense. Shane earned Pete's trust by expanding our play book without introducing high risk "QB cooking".

Promoting Andy to O-Line Coach we quickly gave him two excellent young tackles to prepare for a wide spread type offense that Shane was setting in motion. This year we beefed up the O-line interior with some one yr vets squaring off against some capable rookie competition...keeping an improved Damien Lewis at LG. The interior is what keeps the "top" of the pocket from collapsing while adding another second of time for Geno to process the targets of the called play.

Sanjay Lal was hired to return as Passing Game Coordinator/WR Coach to mentor our existing pair (DK/Tyler) who he already knew from before...and drafted talent Eskridge/D.Young with our newest being Jaxon Smith-Njigba.

Our TE group began to be featured in our 12 personnel packaging...helping our young tackles on both ends ...yet with opportunity to "leak" out into routes as check down targets...as our tackles proved capable of handling pressure.

Geno became the "final piece" needed as he functioned very well in a spread type formation with the balanced support of a growing RB threat in Ken Walker III.

We boosted our defenses ability to deal with other teams passing hiring Karl Scott last year who helped our "expected project" Tariq Woolen to blossom early due to an injury opportunity. Adding Spoon...a fired up M-Jack and Julius Love to 2nd year Coby Bryant allows Scott to mesh our coverage with a remodeled more athletic D-Line.

Another great "tool" to address pass happy teams is hiring our respected Pass Rush Specialist Coach BT Jordan...attacking the opponents QB from interior (Dre'Mont Jones) and looping in from both sides with Uchenna Nwosu and Darryl Taylor...with "wild cards" inside (Mike Morris) and out-Edge (Boye Mafe/Darick Hall)

Providing our communication coordination will be returning defensive "QB/General" Bobby Wagner.

Now Pete can compete on a more level playing field with a pass happy NFL.

 

[hawkfan68]

I really like how PC and JS have built the skilled positions on this roster so far. It's difficult find any weakness at any of those spots.

WR - there are three guys that potentially be #1 or #2 receivers on any team and their penciled in #4 receiver could be a #3 on many teams. Not only that there are a few guys like Cade Johnson, Cody Thompson, right there too. Those guys could make the 53 man roster. I believe Thompson might have made the team last season had he not got injured early in preseason. This is why I have a feeling they are priming Eskridge to be trade bait, if he can show he can stay healthy and be productive.

TE - All three could be #1 or #2 tight ends for most teams. Fant, Dissly, and Parkinson. Well stocked.

RB - Potential to be the biggest strength of the offense. Walker and Charbonnet could be as good as Chubb and Hunt were with Browns. Then McIntosh could be a D'Earnest Johnson like. Deejay Dallas has made some plays too. Stocked there too.

QB - This is probably the weakest position. Smith is solid but after him are big question marks - Lock and Ahlers? But then aren't too many backups that I would put higher than Lock. So he's right in there with them with a starters upside if he realizes his potential.

 

[Hawkmode]

I really like how PC and JS have built the skilled positions on this roster so far. It's difficult find any weakness at any of those spots.

WR - there are three guys that potentially be #1 or #2 receivers on any team and their penciled in #4 receiver could be a #3 on many teams. Not only that there are a few guys like Cade Johnson, Cody Thompson, right there too. Those guys could make the 53 man roster. I believe Thompson might have made the team last season had he not got injured early in preseason. This is why I have a feeling they are priming Eskridge to be trade bait, if he can show he can stay healthy and be productive.

TE - All three could be #1 or #2 tight ends for most teams. Fant, Dissly, and Parkinson. Well stocked.

RB - Potential to be the biggest strength of the offense. Walker and Charbonnet could be as good as Chubb and Hunt were with Browns. Then McIntosh could be a D'Earnest Johnson like. Deejay Dallas has made some plays too. Stocked there too.

QB - This is probably the weakest position. Smith is solid but after him are big question marks - Lock and Ahlers? But then aren't too many backups that I would put higher than Lock. So he's right in there with them with a starters upside if he realizes his potential.

Nailed it with all 4 bullets.

 

[toffee]

I really like how PC and JS have built the skilled positions on this roster so far. It's difficult find any weakness at any of those spots.

WR - there are three guys that potentially be #1 or #2 receivers on any team and their penciled in #4 receiver could be a #3 on many teams. Not only that there are a few guys like Cade Johnson, Cody Thompson, right there too. Those guys could make the 53 man roster. I believe Thompson might have made the team last season had he not got injured early in preseason. This is why I have a feeling they are priming Eskridge to be trade bait, if he can show he can stay healthy and be productive.

TE - All three could be #1 or #2 tight ends for most teams. Fant, Dissly, and Parkinson. Well stocked.

RB - Potential to be the biggest strength of the offense. Walker and Charbonnet could be as good as Chubb and Hunt were with Browns. Then McIntosh could be a D'Earnest Johnson like. Deejay Dallas has made some plays too. Stocked there too.

QB - This is probably the weakest position. Smith is solid but after him are big question marks - Lock and Ahlers? But then aren't too many backups that I would put higher than Lock. So he's right in there with them with a starters upside if he realizes his potential.

I agree 100%, however, some might accuse me being a Seahawks homer. WOndering how fans of other teams, say 9ers and Rams, would evacuate our talents?

 

[hawkfan68]

I agree 100%, however, some might accuse me being a Seahawks homer. WOndering how fans of other teams, say 9ers and Rams, would evacuate our talents?

Not that I really care about what fans of those teams think but I'm sure the astute ones would generally agree that the Seahawks offensive weapons look strong on paper. I've always complimented talented players on their teams - For Rams - Kupp, Robert Woods, and Josh Reynolds always were/are thorn in the Seahawks side. For 49ers - Deebo Samuel, Kittle, and McCaffrey.

 

[hawkfan68]

Man, just reviewing the offensive weapons for the Seahawks. There are so many. Waldron is going to have a difficult task in making sure plays are called for each of them. Winning will keep folks happy. If they struggle, I can see a couple of guys pouting if they feel they are not getting the ball enough. Kind of like too many cooks can spoil the stew type of thing. I hope that doesn't happen but it's a double edged sword.