Top Tier QBs…”Pass” on Seattle?

scutterhawk

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Wilson had some issues here for sure. He struggled on short passes, accuracy was all over the place here and he was awful at pocket management. His internal clock wasn't very good -- he never had to develop that ability due to his scrambling.

My question is, how well is he going to look under an offensive minded OC? I think Carroll was great for Wilson during the start of his career. Later in his career though? I'm not so sure about that. 2015 and onwards, especially in the playoffs there always seemed to be a leash on him.

I think seeing him underneath an offensive minded OC will tell us a lot. I'm very curious to see how he's going to do in Denver being guided by Nathaniel Hackett. Carroll has his strengths, but certainly his offense has always been a point of contention, even dating back to his USC days. The trend continued with guys such as Bates, Bevell and Schottenheimer calling the plays -- guys that were known for being mediocre.
I think a lot depends on whether Russell Wilson is set in his ways, or is still Coachable enough to break SOME bad habits that he's grown over his career.
He's obviously developed his own style of play, and maybe Hackett can adapt his Offensive scheme around Wilson's uniqueness, but I believe it's going to take some time for both he & Russ can mesh.
I don't think we'll see too many blips in the beginning of the process, but when the Defensive pressures, hits & hurries start mounting, I think it will be tough for Wilson not to revert to his old ways.
The AFC WEST is a whole another setting, and it's maybe going to take a while for the Defenses there to home in on Wilson's tendencies like the Rams 'D' did, but I do know that Wilson does not have the speed & escape-ability that he had a few years back.
Mediocre or otherwise, Wilson will still have to Execute Hackett's offensive scheme, and he's going to have to work a little harder to break some of those bad habits & develop that rapport with his new HC & teammates.
 

Own The West

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Back to original topic, why wouldn’t a QB want to come to a team with strong, young defense; running game, WRs and TEs? Couple that with a player-friendly atmosphere and SB winning coach, I would imagine Seattle will be a prime destination next year.
 

Scout

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Back to original topic, why wouldn’t a QB want to come to a team with strong, young defense; running game, WRs and TEs? Couple that with a player-friendly atmosphere and SB winning coach, I would imagine Seattle will be a prime destination next year.
Lots of cap space and draft capital.

I think it is more likely SEA drafts a rookie QB on a friendly five year deal. But the team can definitely sign any vet they want giving what they have to offer in 2023.
 

BASF

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The assumption from the Wilson apologists is that no QB who wants those extra six throws a game that Wilson averaged less than the top pass attempts per game is the reason Wilson no longer wanted to play in our system. Since their infallible one did not want to play under such circumstances, no other top QB would. The sad truth is that there were plenty more opportunities for Wilson to throw the layups and not take sacks that he spun out of a decent pocket and ate a drive ending sack.
 

keasley45

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The assumption from the Wilson apologists is that no QB who wants those extra six throws a game that Wilson averaged less than the top pass attempts per game is the reason Wilson no longer wanted to play in our system. Since their infallible one did not want to play under such circumstances, no other top QB would. The sad truth is that there were plenty more opportunities for Wilson to throw the layups and not take sacks that he spun out of a decent pocket and ate a drive ending sack.

Bingo.

Great video that was posted in the NFL thread where Sherm talks about it:



Russ is a qb who doesn't exploit defenses. He plays his game his way. Always has.

Also talked about outside of Seattle:


The inability of the Hawks to establish a consistently powerful, and orthodox offense that has coherent running and passing identity over the last 10 years was a result not of the scheme being flawed or too conservative, but that it didn't matter what was called, what the gameplan was, or to a degree, even what the defenses weaknesses were. Russ wouldn't exploit those weaknesses. It's known that like Sherm says in that clip, qbs like Brady will methodically take what a defense leaves open and carve them up. Russ literally ignored areas of the field that defenses would willingly surrender because he would rarely if ever make certain reads. Whether height, inability to diagnose coverage, or an addiction to the splash play, the offenses here looked they way they did in large part because Russ made them look that way... the good, and the bad. Never mattered who the OC was.
 

BlueTalon

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I think he means like Bevell, who took offense at suggestions that the slant at the one in the SB was a bad call.
No, he was contrasting Russ's future in Denver with an "offensive minded" OC against Russ's entire stay in Seattle with presumably not-as-offensive-minded OCs. At least that's how I read it, in context.
 

sc85sis

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Well, most players. A lot of our generationally great defense left pretty bitter but that was a very unique situation from which that dislike arose.
Did they? Sherman was mad about contract money. Earl just was being Earl. Kam and Cliff were forced to retire due to injury, not because of any issue with the team. Browner went to the Patriots for more money, and then he ended up in serious legal trouble.

Those who initially got bent out of shape about the Super Bowl loss have no one to blame but themselves. We can argue all day about whose "fault" the loss was, but they CHOSE to be PO'd and unable to move past it. Had they pulled together, the team very well could have stayed on a winning path. These are grown men, and Pete is not responsible for their attitudes.
 

FattyKnuckle

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Did they? Sherman was mad about contract money. Earl just was being Earl. Kam and Cliff were forced to retire due to injury, not because of any issue with the team. Browner went to the Patriots for more money, and then he ended up in serious legal trouble.

Those who initially got bent out of shape about the Super Bowl loss have no one to blame but themselves. We can argue all day about whose "fault" the loss was, but they CHOSE to be PO'd and unable to move past it. Had they pulled together, the team very well could have stayed on a winning path. These are grown men, and Pete is not responsible for their attitudes.
Yes they did. Browner was in trouble before he was let go, iirc, and not a part of the post-XLIX fallout obviously. Earl was much worse than just "being Earl" though I think maybe some mental issues are involved. Bennet was disgruntled. Sherman was unhappy here and that was a contributing factor in refusing to budge on his contract. He may not have taken shots at the team but he was definitely disgruntled and Wilson was a prime target in practice. Even Kam and Avril said some derogatory things in interviews. It's bad when Kam and Avril go so far as to call the team dysfunctional. That was when I gave in to the theory of Russ being put on a pedestal causing the rift.
 

scutterhawk

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Bingo.

Great video that was posted in the NFL thread where Sherm talks about it:



Russ is a qb who doesn't exploit defenses. He plays his game his way. Always has.

Also talked about outside of Seattle:


The inability of the Hawks to establish a consistently powerful, and orthodox offense that has coherent running and passing identity over the last 10 years was a result not of the scheme being flawed or too conservative, but that it didn't matter what was called, what the gameplan was, or to a degree, even what the defenses weaknesses were. Russ wouldn't exploit those weaknesses. It's known that like Sherm says in that clip, qbs like Brady will methodically take what a defense leaves open and carve them up. Russ literally ignored areas of the field that defenses would willingly surrender because he would rarely if ever make certain reads. Whether height, inability to diagnose coverage, or an addiction to the splash play, the offenses here looked they way they did in large part because Russ made them look that way... the good, and the bad. Never mattered who the OC was.

A-B-S-O-L-U-T-E-L-Y THIS^^^
Two things that Pi$$ me off the most, is that IF you say ANYTHING NEGATIVE about Russell Wilson, you are a Russell Wilson hater and/or a Pete Carroll apologist, which is ASSININE!
Some will relent a few negativities about Russell 'I'm Doing Sh*t My Own Way' Wilson, but almost in the same breath, are bashing Pete Carroll for >>WILSON'S<<>> SCREWUPS<<.
I--DO--NOT--DISLIKE --RUSSELL--WILSON-----BUT-----IF-- IT--COMES--DOWN--TO--TAKING--SIDES--????, I--WILL--ALWAYS--CHOSE--THE--SEATTLE--SEAHAWKS--OVER--ANY--ONE--P-L-A-Y-E-R.
 
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GemCity

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Stacked Box

Uh huh. We’ll get a good look at what Russ does this season compared to our we only need a game manager at QB crowd.

P.S. Lock getting first team reps yet or is it our savior Geno?
 

GemCity

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Russ is going to be just fine and we’ll find our QB of the future in the upcoming draft.

I think that sums up the majority of the controversial posts that we’ve all endured to wits end.

And that is ok. Solid draft. Lots to look forward to.

But don’t question one’s allegiance on something that hasn’t been proven out yet. I’m not telling PC testicleriders they’re not fans because they follow blindly. I’m simply stating an opinion which is just that…an opinion. Besides, I’m a narcissist and know I’m right but to each their own.
 

keasley45

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Russ is going to be just fine and we’ll find our QB of the future in the upcoming draft.

I think that sums up the majority of the controversial posts that we’ve all endured to wits end.

And that is ok. Solid draft. Lots to look forward to.

But don’t question one’s allegiance on something that hasn’t been proven out yet. I’m not telling PC testicleriders they’re not fans because they follow blindly. I’m simply stating an opinion which is just that…an opinion. Besides, I’m a narcissist and know I’m right but to each their own.

Because you appreciate what Pete is doing doesn't mean you do so blindly.

My comment was in reference to you asking whether Lock was getting first team reps. He obviously has been.

Just comes across as a snide comment made by a fan of a player, rather than a franchise. Don't question your allegiance to Russ at all.
 

GemCity

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K.

So you do ride them. Unless you don’t. If that’s the case, I wasn’t talking about other PC fans.

We can do this all day. I have time.
 
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toffee

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Russ is going to be just fine and we’ll find our QB of the future in the upcoming draft.

I think that sums up the majority of the controversial posts that we’ve all endured to wits end.

And that is ok. Solid draft. Lots to look forward to.

But don’t question one’s allegiance on something that hasn’t been proven out yet. I’m not telling PC testicleriders they’re not fans because they follow blindly. I’m simply stating an opinion which is just that…an opinion. Besides, I’m a narcissist and know I’m right but to each their own.
Fine by any everyday men standard, however, Russ is not an everyday person.

For Russ, I would speculate that if he would to receive the same support or lack of from his Bronco locker room, he may have problem finding the next job as someone's franchise QB. Its one thing that Hawks' locker gave Russ the "indifferent" treatment, it's more serious if Bronco's gives him the same.

No owner or GM wants to pay huge $$$$$ to a QB that failed to win over two locker rooms.
 

Scout

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The standard for RW is not fine or average. RW has to overcome a lot more hurdles playing in a brutal division and a stacked AFC while playing for a mega contract in the near future. I think he is capable of helping the Broncos win games that Teddy couldn't will his team to win. But Teddy was also a steady eddie to help keep Broncos in close games. I am not sure Wilson can do that anymore so that will be determined.

Doing NFL average is the standard for Geno or Lock which is far more easier for either to be able to climb as both players haven't started 32-34 NFL games. It takes about 32-34 NFL games to really be able to judge a QB's ability to play in this league.

Mariota for example has started 61 NFL games. Mariota could have a comeback career in ATL as they have added more talent on offense but for the most part he is known not to push the ball downfield but is lethal delivering the ball to TEs up the seem.

Winston has started 77 NFL games and he looked like he gave up his Super hero antics to play more like a game manager with the Saints. Less turnovers while moving the chains and helping his team win.

With the rule changes and how the league favors offenses talented young QBs can improve over time. The question is what is the ceiling on Lock? And as for old man Geno he still might have something left in the tank. Do not know until you explore further and see what they can and can not do.
 

GemCity

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The standard for RW is not fine or average. RW has to overcome a lot more hurdles playing in a brutal division and a stacked AFC while playing for a mega contract in the near future. I think he is capable of helping the Broncos win games that Teddy couldn't will his team to win. But Teddy was also a steady eddie to help keep Broncos in close games. I am not sure Wilson can do that anymore so that will be determined.

Doing NFL average is the standard for Geno or Lock which is far more easier for either to be able to climb as both players haven't started 32-34 NFL games. It takes about 32-34 NFL games to really be able to judge a QB's ability to play in this league.

Mariota for example has started 61 NFL games. Mariota could have a comeback career in ATL as they have added more talent on offense but for the most part he is known not to push the ball downfield but is lethal delivering the ball to TEs up the seem.

Winston has started 77 NFL games and he looked like he gave up his Super hero antics to play more like a game manager with the Saints. Less turnovers while moving the chains and helping his team win.

With the rule changes and how the league favors offenses talented young QBs can improve over time. The question is what is the ceiling on Lock? And as for old man Geno he still might have something left in the tank. Do not know until you explore further and see what they can and can not do.
Who said Russell’s standard was average?

32-34 games eh? Link that source please. I’ve never heard that before unless of course, it’s a conjecture.

There have been a few anomaly, comeback type quarterbacks. But, I’ll stick to what I’ve said the whole time and that’s the Hawks drafting their QB next year. If you want to drag it out…ok…you win…I’ll say it….

The QB room stinks.
 
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