Time for a complete overhaul

[SoulfishHawk]

Yes, they are.

 

[jammerhawk]

Wow, the overreaction around here is certainly something to see. Chicken Little and the sky is falling has nothing on some folks here. Nobody died, but the team served up a clunker, and played poor football in all three phases of the game. The mistakes made and some of the penalties taken were nothing short of laughable and indicative of poor discipline.

The problems are obvious, but really centre around two things:
1. They can't run the ball.
2.They can't stop the run.
Fixing those two things would be huge, but seemingly impossible so far.


Other but lesser problems are:
1. They are weak pass protecting.
2. They are weak tackling.

The OLine problems are sucking the life out this team.

 

[Subzero717]

NEWSFLASH!!!!! were right in the middle of it. It's going on right before your eyes. we're rebuilding. It's not pretty.

How are we rebuilding if we are buyers of expiring contracts and clinging to mid tier talent?

 

[m0ng0]

And we are eating our own... already.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Again, though: Where is the rebuilding? I see no rebuilding.

I see a team that is against the cap next year already with no surplus draft capital. I see a team that already has young cornerstones to build around.

The rebuild was in 2022 and continued in 2023. This is year 3 of that stretch and it's supposed to be the year that we actually start making some strides.

We are not rebuilding right now. We do not have the appropriate ingredients for a rebuild. The front office is not managing personnel in a way that indicates rebuild.

The thing is, we've never had full a rebuild. What we did was not that, retooling is a better term for what we were doing. Spending a second rounder for an older player such as Big Cat isn't what I would call rebuilding -- or bringing back old Seahawks such Wagner and Reed. We've never blown up the whole roster and started over.

The reason why we're here, in this situation is our talent is quite frankly mediocre.

The issue I see is that our young core doesn't really have any star power. I was high on some of these guys, but they just haven't taken the next step. Most of these guys are serviceable, but not outstanding. I don't see many, if any blue chip players from our drafts. Our young guys aren't bad, but they're very much so middle of the pack players for the most part, with the exception being Woolen -- but even he has major struggles when it comes to tackling. (I'm exempting our rookies from these statements).

We don't have a top 10 talent or blue chip player virtually anywhere on the roster, with the exception of Woolen. This roster is what I would call "mid". Our players aren't bad, but they're inconsistent. We'll have young players that will pop off one week and the next they'll be getting destroyed.

The only two players on this roster I'd say are franchise cornerstones are DK and Woolen. Even then, DK isn't at the same tier level as guys like Chase. We don't have an Aaron Donald, we don't have a star QB, we don't have a star TE, star DE/LB, etc. We have serviceable players, but we don't have anything in the way of blue chip players.

 

[Maelstrom787]

The thing is, we've never had full a rebuild. What we did was not that, retooling is a better term for what we were doing. Spending a second rounder for an older player such as Big Cat isn't what I would call rebuilding -- or bringing back old Seahawks such Wagner and Reed. We've never blown up the whole roster and started over.

The reason why we're here, in this situation is our talent is quite frankly mediocre.

The issue I see is that our young core doesn't really have any star power. I was high on some of these guys, but they just haven't taken the next step. Most of these guys are serviceable, but not outstanding. I don't see many, if any blue chip players from our drafts. Our young guys aren't bad, but they're very much so middle of the pack players for the most part, with the exception being Woolen -- but even he has major struggles when it comes to tackling. (I'm exempting our rookies from these statements).

We don't have a top 10 talent or blue chip player virtually anywhere on the roster, with the exception of Woolen. This roster is what I would call "mid". Our players aren't bad, but they're inconsistent. We'll have young players that will pop off one week and the next they'll be getting destroyed.

The only two players on this roster I'd say are franchise cornerstones are DK and Woolen. Even then, DK isn't at the same tier level as guys like Chase. We don't have an Aaron Donald, we don't have a star QB, we don't have a star TE, star DE/LB, etc. We have serviceable players, but we don't have anything in the way of blue chip players.

DK, Spoon, Woolen, and potentially Murphy should all be considered blue chips.

Cross is a near blue chip if he maintains his current caliber from here on. Lucas would've been one.

K9 is a top-10 talent at RB.

Outside of that, plus starters include Big Cat, Mafe, Nwosu, Reed, Lockett, and Geno.

Average starters would be Love, Connor Williams, Hankins (plus run defender, low snap guy ideally). Probably a few more.

We have real talent on this team. This roster is better than the performance. I know this for a fact because the majority of the issues are just dogshit execution. Disjointed timing on offense, OL getting beaten mostly on technique, run fits are in shambles, etc.

If it's a one play thing, sure. That's on the player. Consistently snap after snap game after game? That's coaching. That's bad implementation.

They're not getting beat because they suck. They're getting beat because they don't know what they do or who they are as a team, and they're not making progress toward actually finding an identity.

 

[Ozzy]

And outside of Murphy they had all of those same players last year with Pete and the results were the same. I’m with you that we have more talent than the results have shown I just don’t know what it is.

That’s why I lean towards giving Mike time to get the players that fit his system and until then he deserves the benefit of the doubt imo.

They okay two completely different style of defense. It’s possible that Mike needs a couple of pieces before this fully comes together.

 

[AnimeAmore]

The seahawks don't have a lot of bad contracts and they haven't traded too many of their future picks so they aren't at the point where they *need* a tear-down/rebuild.
What we can't do though is make trades or sign free agents as a win-now move because we aren't in a position to win a whole lot. As long as John treats the team as rebuilding we can just focus on adding young talent to the team.

 

[Seahawks fan]

This is funny John ain't going anywhere, if you're not paying attention the stars on your team came from John and his drafting and for the ones who don't understand Pete had total roster control for years until they took that power from him in 2018 I believe (look at draft success in those years). A lot of fans like to forget what Pete's first 3 seasons where like and also what he's last 3 years were like, calm down relax this team is in a "rebuild" and this is what it looks like....

 

[Seahawks fan]

Here's a quick breakdown of what's needed in this overhaul:

New offensive line
New QB
New defense
New defensive coordinator
New strength/conditioning coach
New training facilities
New General Manager
New head coach
New stadium
New owner


If we can just improve those things, we might have a shot at a wildcard spot in the playoffs.

You forgot -
New name
New city
New fans
New logo

 

[jammerhawk]

DK, Spoon, Woolen, and potentially Murphy should all be considered blue chips.

Cross is a near blue chip if he maintains his current caliber from here on. Lucas would've been one.

K9 is a top-10 talent at RB.

Outside of that, plus starters include Big Cat, Mafe, Nwosu, Reed, Lockett, and Geno.

Average starters would be Love, Connor Williams, Hankins (plus run defender, low snap guy ideally). Probably a few more.

We have real talent on this team. This roster is better than the performance. I know this for a fact because the majority of the issues are just dogshit execution. Disjointed timing on offense, OL getting beaten mostly on technique, run fits are in shambles, etc.

If it's a one play thing, sure. That's on the player. Consistently snap after snap game after game? That's coaching. That's bad implementation.

They're not getting beat because they suck. They're getting beat because they don't know what they do or who they are as a team, and they're not making progress toward actually finding an identity.

Maelstrom: your post above is good and well stated I completely agree right up until the last comment about their identity. I suspect it seems that way identity wise, but every new system always takes a bit to bring into active effective execution. The developing identity is there but it isn’t consistent.

You see occasional flashes of understanding defensively and at times the OLine actually (you know blocks). The OLine has a few really capable run blockers but they simply aren’t getting that done and and it far from clear why not. Their pass blocking is also really inconsistent. Ii wonder if that’s coaching or a present incomplete ability to execute the blocking schemes asked of them?

The team is implementing new systems on both O and D and also on ST. Reality is that will take even good players some time to get right. I truly agree with the post after your’s by Ozzy. They need more time, and we need to suck that up and let that happen.

Yesterday though there were two unnecessary roughness penalties that were evidence of youthful lack individual discipline. One upset a hardcore leader of his team and it lead that sideline shoving incident, the other was a dirty kick which resulted in a 15 yard penalty that the coach noticed. The coaches need to ensure those players both young and aggressive players channel that aggression better and w/in the rules so those penalties don’t their team. I predict the staff will focus on this serious issue.

Unlike you I think they are making progress towards a new identity as a team it’s just slower that we’d like it to be by mid season.

 

[Smellyman]

Rebuilds aren't really a thing in the NFL. Crappy teams have been crappy forever because it is hard to rebuild and crappy management.

But Trading some overvalued players would be cool. i.e DK

 

[Spin Doctor]

And outside of Murphy they had all of those same players last year with Pete and the results were the same. I’m with you that we have more talent than the results have shown I just don’t know what it is.

That’s why I lean towards giving Mike time to get the players that fit his system and until then he deserves the benefit of the doubt imo.

They okay two completely different style of defense. It’s possible that Mike needs a couple of pieces before this fully comes together.

Do we have more talent or is it that we’re overhyping the talent that we have?

I’m kind of leaning towards the later. We don’t have a terrible roster but we don’t have any real blue chip talent, save for maybe Woolen.

 

[Spin Doctor]

DK, Spoon, Woolen, and potentially Murphy should all be considered blue chips.

Cross is a near blue chip if he maintains his current caliber from here on. Lucas would've been one.

K9 is a top-10 talent at RB.

Outside of that, plus starters include Big Cat, Mafe, Nwosu, Reed, Lockett, and Geno.

Average starters would be Love, Connor Williams, Hankins (plus run defender, low snap guy ideally). Probably a few more.

We have real talent on this team. This roster is better than the performance. I know this for a fact because the majority of the issues are just dogshit execution. Disjointed timing on offense, OL getting beaten mostly on technique, run fits are in shambles, etc.

If it's a one play thing, sure. That's on the player. Consistently snap after snap game after game? That's coaching. That's bad implementation.

They're not getting beat because they suck. They're getting beat because they don't know what they do or who they are as a team, and they're not making progress toward actually finding an identity.

I wouldn't consider any of those guys blue chip prospects aside from Woolen. Dk is behind the top tier receivers, he has the athletic talent, but he just isn't where guys like Chase are. Geno isn't really in the top echelon of passers either. He's okay, but really he's somebody that flirts with top 10.

Lockett is good, but he's lost a step and isn't likely going to play a part with the Seahawks going forward. He's also not what I would call a blue chip prospect, especially this year. Hell, even the year before he wasn't a top tier receiver.

Big cat isn't a top tier D-lineman and he's also in his 30s. He's pretty good, but he's not an Aaron Donald type, Hankins is old and he's not really been much of a factor for the Seahawks thus far.

Our players aren't "bad", but I'm just not seeing many players that tilt the field. They are all guys that likely would find spots in other teams rosters, but more as a secondary, or backup player. There are a lot of good accessory pieces on this roster that don't seem to be "the guy".

I've spent a lot of time examining the top tier rosters, and we just don't have Chase, a Roquan Smith, Buddah Baker, TJ Watt, Kyle Hamilton etc, etc, etc

Our guys aren't bad, but they also don't have a field tilter in the same ways a lot of those guys are. DK Metcalf is good, but he's lacking compared to most of the top guys, Woolen is good but also not the best and comes with an issue of tackling. He's the closest we have to a blue chip player imo.

Now, to be fair, Murphy could develop into a Donald 2.0. He has a lot of promise and our defense surely isn't the same without him. He's also just a rookie, what he ends up as is up for debate. At the very least he's an above average DT.

The main thought I get the more and more I look at this team is, it's just a mediocre roster at the moment. Filled with unrealized potential, that may mor may not be tapped, with some huge holes on both lines.

The team is just "meh" outta 10 right now roster wise. I think we put too high of a rating on our own guys.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Good point on overhyping our own guys. I still think Murphy is going to be a beast. Big Cat is balling and Spoon is a special player. But overall, we do have a lot of average to a little above average. I'm a huge DK fan, but he's def. not top 5. Though, just in own opinion, I think he's better than people give him credit for.

 

[Subzero717]

I wouldn't consider any of those guys blue chip prospects aside from Woolen. Dk is behind the top tier receivers, he has the athletic talent, but he just isn't where guys like Chase are. Geno isn't really in the top echelon of passers either. He's okay, but really he's somebody that flirts with top 10.

Lockett is good, but he's lost a step and isn't likely going to play a part with the Seahawks going forward. He's also not what I would call a blue chip prospect, especially this year. Hell, even the year before he wasn't a top tier receiver.

Big cat isn't a top tier D-lineman and he's also in his 30s. He's pretty good, but he's not an Aaron Donald type, Hankins is old and he's not really been much of a factor for the Seahawks thus far.

Our players aren't "bad", but I'm just not seeing many players that tilt the field. They are all guys that likely would find spots in other teams rosters, but more as a secondary, or backup player. There are a lot of good accessory pieces on this roster that don't seem to be "the guy".

I've spent a lot of time examining the top tier rosters, and we just don't have Chase, a Roquan Smith, Buddah Baker, TJ Watt, Kyle Hamilton etc, etc, etc

Our guys aren't bad, but they also don't have a field tilter in the same ways a lot of those guys are. DK Metcalf is good, but he's lacking compared to most of the top guys, Woolen is good but also not the best and comes with an issue of tackling. He's the closest we have to a blue chip player imo.

Now, to be fair, Murphy could develop into a Donald 2.0. He has a lot of promise and our defense surely isn't the same without him. He's also just a rookie, what he ends up as is up for debate. At the very least he's an above average DT.

The main thought I get the more and more I look at this team is, it's just a mediocre roster at the moment. Filled with unrealized potential, that may mor may not be tapped, with some huge holes on both lines.

The team is just "meh" outta 10 right now roster wise. I think we put too high of a rating on our own guys.

Great post.

We lack any elite players. Elite players make good players great, mid tier players good.

Our two most successful runs had All Pros throughout. The best teams currently are the same. Not Pro Bowl alternates.

Another thing I've noticed on the better teams in the league today is depth on the coaching staff. Decades of experience and/or previous HCs on staff. KC has two former HCs for coordinators. Commanders have 3 former HCs on staff.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Spoon is elite. So is K9. Cross is trending towards elite, imo. Murphy is absolutely going to be an elite player. I have little doubt about that.

 

[hox]

Spoon is elite. So is K9. Cross is trending towards elite, imo. Murphy is absolutely going to be an elite player. I have little doubt about that.

Spoon hasn't looked elite this season.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He's still elite, to me. I'm not even sort of worried about him. He's a special player.

 

[toffee]

Sorry guys, overhaul started when Wilson traded to the Broncos, we are three drafts in since the overhaul. Four first rounders later, this is the year we show the league what we got and next year will be championship if not more

3-4 drafts have been what it took for teams to come back from dead

Go Hawks!