The latest on Jadeveon Clowney and trade partners.

[DJrmb]

The Dolphins are not Clowney's preferred destination, but the AFC East franchise is highly interested in acquiring the former top overall pick. Many NFL sources regard the Dolphins as a frontrunner to land Clowney, a three-time Pro Bowl pass rusher. Clowney, though, would ideally rather play for a contender like the Seattle Seahawks or the Philadelphia Eagles.

The situation remains fluid and Clowney holds the leverage of not signing his tender, which would hold up any potential trade.

The Texans are determined to trade Clowney and would be "reasonable" in any potential trade, according to multiple sources.

https://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Sources-Texans-Jadeveon-Clowney-fires-agent-14382196.php

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Clowney does have some leverage, but so do the Texans because starting next week if Clowney doesn't sign and report he loses almost 1M a week, and if he doesn't play all year the Texans still have control of him next year.

So if I had to guess if the Texans can't find a viable trade offer with a team Clowney approves of, Clowney won't have any choice but to report or this drags out well into the season.

 

[Chukarhawk]

Don't be surprised if Clowney ends up in Seattle

 

[SoulfishHawk]

All I know is it's about winning, and with Clowney on one side and Ziggy on the other? That's pretty exciting to think about.

 

[Rat]

All I know is it's about winning, and with Clowney on one side and Ziggy on the other? That's pretty exciting to think about.

That'd be the ultimate best case scenario. Potential for SUCH a fun defense if that duo was healthy.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And I don't know what anyone else thinks, but even without adding Clowney, I have a feeling our Run D this year will be much improved. I'm more worried about pass rush and the back end of the Defense letting guys get wide open over the middle.

 

[2_0_6]

*IF* we land Clowney, we would have two very motivated fellas wanting to have career years to ensure a LARGE payday next season.

Nothing better than motivation.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Exactly. Remember when we signed Cliff and Michael? Those boys played their butts off and earned nice contracts.

 

[vigilantgrrl]

Don't do it!!!

 

[QuahHawk]

Im in on the trade pending compensation. We have to assume this could be a 1 year rental. Next offseason we would have Ziggy, Reed, and ,Clowny to decide upon. We will have money to sign 1 or two of them. Who's play's best this year.

I don't think i can say Clowny is better than Clark, but i do think he is more versatile and doesn't have the domestic assault background.

I would give up Pocic and a 2nd or Ifedi and a 3rd.

 

[KitsapGuy]

We also have Britt coming up. Pocic might be a lot cheaper option.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

First, we are not as cash rich as we think. We are not far removed from wondering how we were going to pay for Frank Clark. Remember John Schneider admitted that keeping Frank, Bobby, Russell and Reed would be very difficult. ...You still have contract decisions on Ansah, Carson, Fant, Reed, Kendricks, Quill etc. in the next year or two.

I think this requires some context. Seattle appeared extremely interested and willing to resign Frank. Up until the market for DEs suddenly hit 20M a year. Afterwards, they appeared to be resigned to settling for using the cap a second time to keep Clark. But that severely limited their ability to use that tool for Reed, which appeared (appears maybe even now) to be where he's headed. Until a 6 game vacation was handed down.

There didn't seem to be as much discussion about paying him the 17M tag this year, so much as it limited their options in 2020 with Reed. They shopped Clark, but I don't think they expected to get the result they got from KC. Who were similarly saddled with pass rush deficiency with the loss of Dee Ford.

That signing by Oakland really reset the thinking. KC really just gave us an offer we couldn't refuse. Especially at a time where our draft stock was still awful and suffering from previous bad deals we had made.

Second, we are not a deep team. We are maybe league average on a good day. Seattle's starters make us a playoff team but many of our starters are injury risks. How many players can we really lose over the course of a season and still be competitive? We are an injury to Bobby away from being a train wreck on defense. Even with Clowney I don't think we have a reliable defense over the course of the season.

We agree here. I don't think Clowney 'completes us'. This team is more than one player away. But you have to start by adding pieces where you can.

Circumstance plays a huge role here. Seattle clearly expected to have a premier DE talent drop to 21. There are too many clues in the post draft process not to infer this. The draft didn't break our way. And I do expect that Seattle is going to be forced to add a DE in R1 next year. Which IMO, is a very bad position to be in. The draft is mercurial and good DEs don't last very long. Even in an epic deep DE class like last year. There wasn't any other collateral options available to push good rushers down the draft board. We could end up taking a DE in a 2020 version of 'Stuck with Ifedi because we had to' situation.

Clowney is almost assuredly better than a back half of R1 talent. Not just now but likely 3 years from now.

Third, you can scheme around less talented defensive ends the same way you can scheme around limited QBs. Sean McVay and Doug Peterson have gone to Super Bowls by scheming around non-elite QBs. Baltimore and Buffalo had elite defenses without Frank Clark/Clowney caliber DEs.

Not sure I understand how one schemes around bad pass rush. Other than add more rushers than blockers. But let's say for argument this is possible. Players (both our own and opponents) have routinely described our defense as extremely predictable. Also extremely disciplined. Our system is not one that flirts with dynamic or creative scheming. And we've cut plenty of talent on our teams over the years due to their inability to work within the framework of the defense. It's very rigid. And not at all exotic.

I just don't think this team is in a situation that merits a trade like this. This team needs another massive infusion of talent before it even has the depth to absorb the blows that come in sixteen games. I'd rather ride out this year, see if any of the young guys pop and address pass rush next year. Pete and John are still in a rebuild and this feels like a ready now move.

I don't disagree that the team needs an infusion of talent. The draft isn't the only way to add that. Rookies have an innate learning curve. Free agency is a generally poor way to augment that -- and Seattle has done their best work by targeting younger UFAs who still have the ability to produce.

Clowney isn't a UFA. But his age and current pedigree (and even recent availability) are genuinely rare to find on the trade market. Just as Clark was in April. Clowney would not be the final step in creating a reliable defense. But he definitely would be a strong first step. At a particular role that is infamously difficult to fill. Which would grant us the flexibility to fill other holes with better talent, than having to settle for the best of what's left at a critical need and have to wait up to 24 months to see if that high draft pick actually fills it.

Worst case. We use a 2020 first round pick. And after the 2022 season, we realize he needs to be replaced with another high pick in 2023. Assume that pick is actually good and begins to produce at a high rate in 2024.

That's a much more disastrous risk. Squandering multiple first round picks and the bulk of Wilson's athletic prime. And not even a remotely unlikely one if Seattle continues to remain competitive despite talent that indicates we shouldn't.

 

[CPHawk]

I'm in the for the trade camp.

1. His age is about perfect. Should be entering the most productive period of his career.

2. His health concerns are almost exclusively the byproduct of his injuries incurred before his rookie season and his second season. In the last three seasons, he's played as many games as KJ Wright did in his first three seasons. He's been available.

3. On the 'one year rental' concerns. These are valid. But they aren't a fait accompli. We traded for Richardson under very different circumstances. The team was entering cap hell and everyone that paid close attention to that side of the game could foresee it. We added him with no real ability or intention of resigning him. In addition, we were in full on blow up the defense mode following that year. It made little to no sense to resign him.

Our circumstances now are completely different. We are flush with cash now. And we're going to be far more flush in the next year. We also have the advantage (if one can call it that), of not really having players worthy of a franchise cap type of salary coming due in UFA in 2020 outside of Reed. So where we didn't have the realistic ability to retain Richardson after acquiring him -- we have that in spades for a Clowney sized deal next year.

4. He is a productive talent. And he's the kind of talent that fits what Seattle covets. An incredibly strong two way player. Unlike a patently obvious mismatch of talent as Graham was. It's a gross mistake to prop up the Graham and Richardson results and think that those deals' failures necessarily apply to a potential Clowney deal. Circumstance and player fit were paramount factors in those failures.

5. Where are we as a franchise? We're already in the prime of Wilson's career. No telling how long that may last. But it's definitely finite. What is the value of a 2nd round pick in 2020? Or really even a 1st round pick in the hands of Pete and John? Assume for a second that they miraculously manage to not get players like Penny/Green/McDowell/Pocic. Those are the last two years worth of top 2 picks we have managed to acquire -- at least on record.

If they do get a good player, it's likely they aren't going to be even good until 2022.


I believe there are plenty of differences between the bad trades we've historically entered into, versus the kind of deal this one presents. I don't see those failures tainting future deals. Any more than I necessarily think that our pick failures in 2017/18 necessarily color the outlook of 2019s head of the class. Judging this deal on it's own merits -- I think this deal makes a lot of sense and makes our team better. Potentially even more so in the next few years.

I don't have a problem sending a 1st for Clowney. If I can conditionally protect that pick that would be preferred. Circumstance robbed the team of burning the 21st pick on a rookie DE. So it's kind of safe to assume we'd be willing to use next years' first on a DE. And then watch him take a couple years to blossom as most DEs entering the league require. So that you get an expected good 3rd and 4th year before you have to sign him to approximate franchise tag type money.

I think it's preferable to use that pick on a young DE who has already matured. But also a player who is still 4 years shy of 30. And one that fits what we want. And one that has undeniable upside even among his critics. It's easily arguable that Clowney's best football is still to come. And he's already in the top ten of TFLs in the league.

Those 2 FA pick up at DE and the trade for Lynch had nothing to do with us winning it all?

 

[Chawker]

We just signed a DE Logan Tago and a OT Will Holden

 

[rcaido]

Trade Justin Britt & 3rd rounder for Clowney

 

[Maulbert]

Houston needs a running back with Miller going down. Think they'd take Penny and a 2nd for Clowney? I'd do that in a heartbeat.

 

[Chawker]

Its been reported that Clowney is prepared to sit out the season if he has too. I haven't heard anything about the Seahawks even talking to the Texans about aquiring Clowney.

I'd think that Penny and a 3rd round draft pick (2020) would do the trick.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Its been reported that Clowney is prepared to sit out the season if he has too. I haven't heard anything about the Seahawks even talking to the Texans about aquiring Clowney.

I'd think that Penny and a 3rd round draft pick (2020) would do the trick.

Seattle has to thread lightly because you don’t want to show your hand with an injury prone player and Clowney hasn’t even been in camp. You absolutely don’t know what his condition is. It makes no sense for Seattle to entertain an idea of even trading for him.

Seattle has been putting on this image as a team that (recently) will try to pay the players that develop within their system, with the exception Clark.

Trading for Clowney and then paying him big money would definitely shatter this notion (or whatever is left) of it.

 

[Chukarhawk]

Its been reported that Clowney is prepared to sit out the season if he has too. I haven't heard anything about the Seahawks even talking to the Texans about aquiring Clowney.

I'd think that Penny and a 3rd round draft pick (2020) would do the trick.

if that's true then I don't want him. I don't want anyone that dumb. Sit the entire year, lose millions of dollars that you will never get back, no matter how big the next contract is. Incredibly stupid. I love the collective bargaining agreement just for this reason. Hold out and it will be very painful.

 

[McGruff]

Its been reported that Clowney is prepared to sit out the season if he has too. I haven't heard anything about the Seahawks even talking to the Texans about aquiring Clowney.

I'd think that Penny and a 3rd round draft pick (2020) would do the trick.

if that's true then I don't want him. I don't want anyone that dumb. Sit the entire year, lose millions of dollars that you will never get back, no matter how big the next contract is. Incredibly stupid. I love the collective bargaining agreement just for this reason. Hold out and it will be very painful.

In that scenario I would imagine he would still be viewed as an OLB, not a DE.

Part of the appeal of the Seahawks and Eagles is the opportunity to play DE in the 43. More money to be made there.