Sydney Jones PFF Grade.

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Shanegotyou11

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Maelstrom787":2xjoi1uv said:
Regardless of my defense of Flowers, two things were abundantly clear:

Jones plays closer in coverage and is always closer to the ball.

Jones improves Reed by letting him play the side he's good at.

That's just straight up clear based on the game he watched. No one's slurping the dude, but there is clearly more room to grow there.


I agree but serious question here. No troll.

When Flowers is in press coverage he did pretty good. He is not fluid enough to start 10 yards off. So do the coaches not trust him? Why not do the defense they did vs Niners earlier in year and see how Tre did?
 

BamKam

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Lets give it a few weeks before grading him since he is so new to the defense maybe? I swear to God with the overreactions on this board.
 
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Shanegotyou11

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BamKam":3cfq2a8u said:
Lets give it a few weeks before grading him since he is so new to the defense maybe? I swear to God with the overreactions on this board.


How is it over reacting? Overreacting would be "bench him. Look at his grade."

Talking about his grade is just being factual.
 

Chukarhawk

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not sure how many of you watched him at UW but this kid is a legit 1st round talent. No camp, give him till mid season. he's going to do very well here.
 

chris98251

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Shanegotyou11":p7hfy301 said:
chris98251":p7hfy301 said:
The trouble with this place now is very few can think for themselves and need someone to tell them what to see, if you can't see the difference in a guy that is tentative and a guy trusts himself who will challenge a WR at CB then you need to quit commenting on the good and bad based on another persons opinion that you present as your own. Most these guys don't know coverage, and hand offs, they have never manned up on someone knowing that they are players also and the war is the prize, battles will happen on every play and you don't win them all. That other guy gets paid to beat you.

Flowers recognition and reaction are slower, he gives room because he doesn't trust his instincts yet and may never, he is used to facing the QB not tracking a receiver and finding the ball in flight.

Jones is the opposite, he is still learning the defense that Flowers has been in a couple seasons, it took the LOB two years to get it.


Shaq still your star corner bro? You know how you talked down anyone who said he was a average corner at best. Now you say people need to think for themselves.

I am glad you were not the FO on Shaq for sure.


Shaq never picked up the left side, some can some can't, he was improving in the right side, my support for him was when he was there, anymore bullshit you want to sling?
 
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Shanegotyou11

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chris98251":30t6n08r said:
Shanegotyou11":30t6n08r said:
chris98251":30t6n08r said:
The trouble with this place now is very few can think for themselves and need someone to tell them what to see, if you can't see the difference in a guy that is tentative and a guy trusts himself who will challenge a WR at CB then you need to quit commenting on the good and bad based on another persons opinion that you present as your own. Most these guys don't know coverage, and hand offs, they have never manned up on someone knowing that they are players also and the war is the prize, battles will happen on every play and you don't win them all. That other guy gets paid to beat you.

Flowers recognition and reaction are slower, he gives room because he doesn't trust his instincts yet and may never, he is used to facing the QB not tracking a receiver and finding the ball in flight.

Jones is the opposite, he is still learning the defense that Flowers has been in a couple seasons, it took the LOB two years to get it.


Shaq still your star corner bro? You know how you talked down anyone who said he was a average corner at best. Now you say people need to think for themselves.

I am glad you were not the FO on Shaq for sure.


Shaq never picked up the left side, some can some can't, he was improving in the right side, my support for him was when he was there, anymore $h!t you want to sling?

Lol. Nah.
 

toffee

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chris98251":2uorfj86 said:
Shanegotyou11":2uorfj86 said:
chris98251":2uorfj86 said:
The trouble with this place now is very few can think for themselves and need someone to tell them what to see, if you can't see the difference in a guy that is tentative and a guy trusts himself who will challenge a WR at CB then you need to quit commenting on the good and bad based on another persons opinion that you present as your own. Most these guys don't know coverage, and hand offs, they have never manned up on someone knowing that they are players also and the war is the prize, battles will happen on every play and you don't win them all. That other guy gets paid to beat you.

Flowers recognition and reaction are slower, he gives room because he doesn't trust his instincts yet and may never, he is used to facing the QB not tracking a receiver and finding the ball in flight.

Jones is the opposite, he is still learning the defense that Flowers has been in a couple seasons, it took the LOB two years to get it.


Shaq still your star corner bro? You know how you talked down anyone who said he was a average corner at best. Now you say people need to think for themselves.

I am glad you were not the FO on Shaq for sure.


Shaq never picked up the left side, some can some can't, he was improving in the right side, my support for him was when he was there, anymore $h!t you want to sling?
Expanding on your theory, Flowers might be misused, lol, he belongs on the left lol

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk
 

Jerhawk

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Hopefully Jones can improve.

If we had any kind of pass rush to disrupt the QB, the corners would benefit from that greatly.
 

chris98251

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toffee":1g5mqlty said:
chris98251":1g5mqlty said:
Shanegotyou11":1g5mqlty said:
chris98251":1g5mqlty said:
The trouble with this place now is very few can think for themselves and need someone to tell them what to see, if you can't see the difference in a guy that is tentative and a guy trusts himself who will challenge a WR at CB then you need to quit commenting on the good and bad based on another persons opinion that you present as your own. Most these guys don't know coverage, and hand offs, they have never manned up on someone knowing that they are players also and the war is the prize, battles will happen on every play and you don't win them all. That other guy gets paid to beat you.

Flowers recognition and reaction are slower, he gives room because he doesn't trust his instincts yet and may never, he is used to facing the QB not tracking a receiver and finding the ball in flight.

Jones is the opposite, he is still learning the defense that Flowers has been in a couple seasons, it took the LOB two years to get it.


Shaq still your star corner bro? You know how you talked down anyone who said he was a average corner at best. Now you say people need to think for themselves.

I am glad you were not the FO on Shaq for sure.


Shaq never picked up the left side, some can some can't, he was improving in the right side, my support for him was when he was there, anymore $h!t you want to sling?
Expanding on your theory, Flowers might be misused, lol, he belongs on the left lol

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

Nah Flowers I think has not adjusted to facing and going towards a play versus the back peddle and turn to run and read a receiver and look for a ball and defend a pass in route. Doesn't matter the side.
 

Sports Hernia

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Maelstrom787":3jsk6ptt said:
Regardless of my defense of Flowers, two things were abundantly clear:

Jones plays closer in coverage and is always closer to the ball.

Jones improves Reed by letting him play the side he's good at.

That's just straight up clear based on the game he watched. No one's slurping the dude, but there is clearly more room to grow there.
Good points. :2thumbs:
 

hawkfan68

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A-Dog":pi2zu01g said:
Seymour":pi2zu01g said:
A-Dog":pi2zu01g said:
Seymour":pi2zu01g said:
Pete all but admitted that wheel route busted coverage was on Adams not Jones to Hugh Millen on 950 yesterday. PFF likely is clueless in that situation is my guess.

Can you elaborate here? That's quite a claim and goes against everything else I've heard from press conferences, interviews, media analysis, etc. What did Pete say exactly, and why do you interpret it as "all but admitted?"

It was 3 high coverage and Hugh asked Pete if the safety was suppose to carry the wheel route in that situation like most defenses in that coverage would do. Pete tried to dodge the question but ended saying I won't answer that but I'll just say that wasn't how we intended to cover that play, when the discussion was about Adams.

It wasn't "my interpretation he all but admitted it." It was obvious and everyone on the show said he just admitted it, Millen included. I just agree with the conclusion.

Here.....you decide.

http://seahawksdraftblog.com/

Oh you were just talking about Pete's press conference. I saw that, and it certainly wasn't obvious to me at all that Pete was "admitting" it was on Adams. To me it was clear that Hugh wanted to know who to blame, and Pete didn't want to thrown one of his players under the bus, regardless of who may have blown their assignment.

From what you've shared, someone with a clear anti-Jamal Adams trade agenda (Rob Staton) is regurgitating an interpretation by another person with a clear anti-Jamal Adams trade agenda (Hugh Millen), and you (not sure what your position is on the Jamal Adams trade but if I had to guess you don't/didn't like it) are interpreting it as "Pete all but admitted it."

Unless there is some other audio that I missed and you didn't share, IMO it wasn't obvious at all. It was obvious that Pete was protecting his player(s), which is what he should do, but it was not obvious at all which player(s) it was.

Logically, it makes more sense to me that a journeyman corner who has been with the team a month and is getting his first ever playing time with the team would be more likely to blow an assignment than a 3X pro bowler who has been playing with the team for over a year, but I'm still not going to draw any conclusions.

For the record, I stopped reading SeahawksDraftBlog because Staton has become so agenda-driven that it's become unreadable. Yes, I get that he's a draft fanatic and therefore he doesn't like it when we give up picks for players, but I'm tired of listening to him trying to prove he's right more than a year after the fact. I like listening to Hugh but he is often guilty of drawing conclusions without complete knowledge and he's been called out multiple times by the players for being dead wrong. He'd do well to have some humility and admit that he's often drawing conclusions based on assumptions that he can't verify.

Lastly, Pete dodged this question, but he often dodges questions even when he's not protecting his players - why would he give other teams any kind of insight in to how they like to play certain situations? If he says "yes, we always have the curl flat player covering the slot carry the wheel route. That's how we do it every time." It's ridiculous to think he would want to answer that question, regardless of the players involved.

This is the reason, I choose to ignore most of what comes from Millen. He and Mahler are two of the main reasons I don't listen to KJR.
 

Sports Hernia

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Millen is a good X’s and O’s guy.
His talent evaluation skills suck though. Still waiting for him to eat his microphone for being wrong about Russ.
 

Sports Hernia

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hawkfan68":3klnuan0 said:
A-Dog":3klnuan0 said:
Seymour":3klnuan0 said:
A-Dog":3klnuan0 said:
Can you elaborate here? That's quite a claim and goes against everything else I've heard from press conferences, interviews, media analysis, etc. What did Pete say exactly, and why do you interpret it as "all but admitted?"

It was 3 high coverage and Hugh asked Pete if the safety was suppose to carry the wheel route in that situation like most defenses in that coverage would do. Pete tried to dodge the question but ended saying I won't answer that but I'll just say that wasn't how we intended to cover that play, when the discussion was about Adams.

It wasn't "my interpretation he all but admitted it." It was obvious and everyone on the show said he just admitted it, Millen included. I just agree with the conclusion.

Here.....you decide.

http://seahawksdraftblog.com/

Oh you were just talking about Pete's press conference. I saw that, and it certainly wasn't obvious to me at all that Pete was "admitting" it was on Adams. To me it was clear that Hugh wanted to know who to blame, and Pete didn't want to thrown one of his players under the bus, regardless of who may have blown their assignment.

From what you've shared, someone with a clear anti-Jamal Adams trade agenda (Rob Staton) is regurgitating an interpretation by another person with a clear anti-Jamal Adams trade agenda (Hugh Millen), and you (not sure what your position is on the Jamal Adams trade but if I had to guess you don't/didn't like it) are interpreting it as "Pete all but admitted it."

Unless there is some other audio that I missed and you didn't share, IMO it wasn't obvious at all. It was obvious that Pete was protecting his player(s), which is what he should do, but it was not obvious at all which player(s) it was.

Logically, it makes more sense to me that a journeyman corner who has been with the team a month and is getting his first ever playing time with the team would be more likely to blow an assignment than a 3X pro bowler who has been playing with the team for over a year, but I'm still not going to draw any conclusions.

For the record, I stopped reading SeahawksDraftBlog because Staton has become so agenda-driven that it's become unreadable. Yes, I get that he's a draft fanatic and therefore he doesn't like it when we give up picks for players, but I'm tired of listening to him trying to prove he's right more than a year after the fact. I like listening to Hugh but he is often guilty of drawing conclusions without complete knowledge and he's been called out multiple times by the players for being dead wrong. He'd do well to have some humility and admit that he's often drawing conclusions based on assumptions that he can't verify.

Lastly, Pete dodged this question, but he often dodges questions even when he's not protecting his players - why would he give other teams any kind of insight in to how they like to play certain situations? If he says "yes, we always have the curl flat player covering the slot carry the wheel route. That's how we do it every time." It's ridiculous to think he would want to answer that question, regardless of the players involved.

This is the reason, I choose to ignore most of what comes from Millen. He and Mahler are two of the main reasons I don't listen to KJR.
Same here, and I’m a UW fan.
 

Smellyman

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wonder how Flowers would've been at safety the whole time where his skill set actually is suited for?
 

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Sports Hernia":1qlj157t said:
getnasty":1qlj157t said:
Sports Hernia":1qlj157t said:
getnasty":1qlj157t said:
If Trey Flowers played the same game that Sydney Jones just did people would be outraged.
Nope. Jones while getting burned a couple times, still made more plays in one game than Flowers did in 3 games.

I don’t get the “white knighting” for a severely underperforming player (see Flowers).
Look, I’m sure he (Flowers) is a wonderful human being and a nice guy, I don’t doubt that for a minute…. But, his number 1 job is coverage, something he is piss poor at.

I dont get handing out David Blowies to a guy that comes in and plays worse then Flowers.

If you ask me who i want starting next week i would tell you Jones hands down but at the same time he was horrible yet because he's not Tre Flowers people think he balled out.
He didn’t play worse than Flowers though. Nobody here is saying that Jones didn’t make mistakes.
It’s just that Flowers set the bar so low anyone can step over it.

You are also comparing 1 game of mediocre at best play by Jones vs 3 years plus of craptastic play from Flowers.
Shouldn’t Jones be given the opportunity to be as bad as Flowers?

Dude you are an idiot. It's already been proven. Everybody whines about flowers because he let's completions and yards. You do it the most!!! Look at the stats re re...flowers is above average on tds allowed in the entire league over the last three years. I will take that anyday over someone who is close in coverage but allows an average of 6 or more tds a year. That is not a good corner. Which is what Shaq was on par with.
I admit flowers can improve in areas...ie...inside to outside coverage, press and playing the ball, but you guys have gotten ridiculous.

I hope Sidney balls out so he doesnt become a poster boy for seahawks problems in relations to you naysayers.

Flowers was far from the soul problem when any team in the league can consistently complete pass right, left and in the middle . You idiots just needed justification for your bitching.
 

Sports Hernia

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Smellyman":qfdzoz38 said:
wonder how Flowers would've been at safety the whole time where his skill set actually is suited for?
Better than @ CB, …..how much better? Who knows?
 

Sports Hernia

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jamescasey1124":2mmn5w4u said:
Sports Hernia":2mmn5w4u said:
getnasty":2mmn5w4u said:
Sports Hernia":2mmn5w4u said:
Nope. Jones while getting burned a couple times, still made more plays in one game than Flowers did in 3 games.

I don’t get the “white knighting” for a severely underperforming player (see Flowers).
Look, I’m sure he (Flowers) is a wonderful human being and a nice guy, I don’t doubt that for a minute…. But, his number 1 job is coverage, something he is piss poor at.

I dont get handing out David Blowies to a guy that comes in and plays worse then Flowers.

If you ask me who i want starting next week i would tell you Jones hands down but at the same time he was horrible yet because he's not Tre Flowers people think he balled out.
He didn’t play worse than Flowers though. Nobody here is saying that Jones didn’t make mistakes.
It’s just that Flowers set the bar so low anyone can step over it.

You are also comparing 1 game of mediocre at best play by Jones vs 3 years plus of craptastic play from Flowers.
Shouldn’t Jones be given the opportunity to be as bad as Flowers?

Dude you are an idiot. It's already been proven. Everybody whines about flowers because he let's completions and yards. You do it the most!!! Look at the stats re re...flowers is above average on tds allowed in the entire league over the last three years. I will take that anyday over someone who is close in coverage but allows an average of 6 or more tds a year. That is not a good corner. Which is what Shaq was on par with.
I admit flowers can improve in areas...ie...inside to outside coverage, press and playing the ball, but you guys have gotten ridiculous.

I hope Sidney balls out so he doesnt become a poster boy for seahawks problems in relations to you naysayers.

Flowers was far from the soul problem when any team in the league can consistently complete pass right, left and in the middle . You idiots just needed justification for your bitching.

As for idiots you may find one in the mirror, when one is defending Flowers piss poor play. No one in here said Flowers was the SOLE reason for the defense sucking so bad, NO ONE, so have fun knocking down that straw man you just built.

Then in the hypocrisy of your very post you list 3 things (there are a few you left out) that Flowers is horrible at.

This is a forum for opinions, and newsflash, they may not always mesh with your opinions.
 

jamescasey1124

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Sports Hernia":2dzfj3yi said:
jamescasey1124":2dzfj3yi said:
Sports Hernia":2dzfj3yi said:
getnasty":2dzfj3yi said:
I dont get handing out David Blowies to a guy that comes in and plays worse then Flowers.

If you ask me who i want starting next week i would tell you Jones hands down but at the same time he was horrible yet because he's not Tre Flowers people think he balled out.
He didn’t play worse than Flowers though. Nobody here is saying that Jones didn’t make mistakes.
It’s just that Flowers set the bar so low anyone can step over it.

You are also comparing 1 game of mediocre at best play by Jones vs 3 years plus of craptastic play from Flowers.
Shouldn’t Jones be given the opportunity to be as bad as Flowers?

Dude you are an idiot. It's already been proven. Everybody whines about flowers because he let's completions and yards. You do it the most!!! Look at the stats re re...flowers is above average on tds allowed in the entire league over the last three years. I will take that anyday over someone who is close in coverage but allows an average of 6 or more tds a year. That is not a good corner. Which is what Shaq was on par with.
I admit flowers can improve in areas...ie...inside to outside coverage, press and playing the ball, but you guys have gotten ridiculous.

I hope Sidney balls out so he doesnt become a poster boy for seahawks problems in relations to you naysayers.

Flowers was far from the soul problem when any team in the league can consistently complete pass right, left and in the middle . You idiots just needed justification for your b!@ch.

As for idiots you may find one in the mirror, when one is defending Flowers piss poor play. No one in here said Flowers was the SOLE reason for the defense sucking so bad, NO ONE, so have fun knocking down that straw man you just built.

Then in the hypocrisy of your very post you list 3 things (there are a few you left out) that Flowers is horrible at.

This is a forum for opinions, and newsflash, they may not always mesh with your opinions.


Same. Your opinions suck. Ecspecially since they are not statitcally backed by you bitches and moans.
 

Sports Hernia

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jamescasey1124":22goysm5 said:
Sports Hernia":22goysm5 said:
jamescasey1124":22goysm5 said:
Sports Hernia":22goysm5 said:
He didn’t play worse than Flowers though. Nobody here is saying that Jones didn’t make mistakes.
It’s just that Flowers set the bar so low anyone can step over it.

You are also comparing 1 game of mediocre at best play by Jones vs 3 years plus of craptastic play from Flowers.
Shouldn’t Jones be given the opportunity to be as bad as Flowers?

Dude you are an idiot. It's already been proven. Everybody whines about flowers because he let's completions and yards. You do it the most!!! Look at the stats re re...flowers is above average on tds allowed in the entire league over the last three years. I will take that anyday over someone who is close in coverage but allows an average of 6 or more tds a year. That is not a good corner. Which is what Shaq was on par with.
I admit flowers can improve in areas...ie...inside to outside coverage, press and playing the ball, but you guys have gotten ridiculous.

I hope Sidney balls out so he doesnt become a poster boy for seahawks problems in relations to you naysayers.

Flowers was far from the soul problem when any team in the league can consistently complete pass right, left and in the middle . You idiots just needed justification for your b!@ch.

As for idiots you may find one in the mirror, when one is defending Flowers piss poor play. No one in here said Flowers was the SOLE reason for the defense sucking so bad, NO ONE, so have fun knocking down that straw man you just built.

Then in the hypocrisy of your very post you list 3 things (there are a few you left out) that Flowers is horrible at.

This is a forum for opinions, and newsflash, they may not always mesh with your opinions.


Same. Your opinions suck. Ecspecially since they are not statitcally backed by you bitches and moans.
You have the opinion my opinion sucks. See, you are catching on how this forum thing works, good job.


PS FWIW, I think your opinion sucks as well, cheers!
 

Fade

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Statistically, Tre Flowers is one of the worst cornerbacks in NFL History.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2020/10/...nbar-seattle-seahawks-cornerbacks-2020-season
"In Flowers’ limited (192 of a possible 391) snaps in 2020, he has been the easiest target in football. Quarterbacks are completing a shocking 84.2% of passes thrown at Flowers this season, with the corner allowing 12 yards per target—not per completion, per target. For context, the NFL record for highest completion percentage in a single season is 74.4%; the record for yards per attempt is 9.9. If a quarterback was able to throw exclusively at Flowers for an entire season they would set records that are at Wayne Gretzky levels of unachievable."

White-knighting for him is absolutely bizarre. What's next? Waxing poetical about Kelly Jennings?! :shock:

Coincidentally both wore #21. Never let a corner where that number again, it is cursed I tells ya.
 

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