Shefter: Grubb the new OC

cymatica

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Man, you're a tough critic. He was 21 at the time. Returned after winning the Heisman to take a shot at winning a national championship. That was his dream. That night, it slipped away. Was a big loss. Give the kid a break.
Meh, I watched Andrew Lucks reaction after 1 of his teammates lost the game for them at Stanford, ruining his championship hopes. He handled it like a pro.
 

Parallax

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Meh, I watched Andrew Lucks reaction after 1 of his teammates lost the game for them at Stanford, ruining his championship hopes. He handled it like a pro.
Everyone's reaction is different but I don't see it as a knock on the kid. One could say he was more passionate than Luck.

Luck's such a weird dude. A true intellectual, also a world class athlete who saw himself as a lineman. Never met a hit he didn't like. Until he couldn't take it anymore. He faced life with a keen analytical intellect, so not surprising that he doesn't wear his heart on his sleeve. It's not better. Or worse. Would have been better if he could have taught himself to slide every now and then, maybe step out of bounds at an opportune moment rather than lowering a shoulder.
 

IndyHawk

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100 percent, and I really like the hire, I just think the idea that they're going to be a ground and pound wear teams down with the run kind of team is a bit unrealistic
Why should they be a ground and pound?
If you are able to have a creative passing attack that opens the run
then you start pounding away and mixing it up while running the clock.
I think Grubb will do just fine.
Waldron made me sick with his stupid play calling and it was like they never
practiced the motions, jet sweeps and screens. It was a sloppy product period.
The man was never OC before so it clearly showed.
I have a very hard time seeing Grubb being worse than average with pro players
being used in his offense.
 

bigcc

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Everyone's reaction is different but I don't see it as a knock on the kid. One could say he was more passionate than Luck.

Luck's such a weird dude. A true intellectual, also a world class athlete who saw himself as a lineman. Never met a hit he didn't like. Until he couldn't take it anymore. He faced life with a keen analytical intellect, so not surprising that he doesn't wear his heart on his sleeve. It's not better. Or worse. Would have been better if he could have taught himself to slide every now and then, maybe step out of bounds at an opportune moment rather than lowering a shoulder.
His style of play apparently didn't have anything to do with why he retired.

 

Chukarhawk

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Caleb Williams is a tier alone. NFL ready day one.

Jayden Daniels has the legs of Walmart Lamar but his mid/deep accuracy is sub par.
Drake Maye is Mitch Trubisky v2.0.
Penix has an elite arm and will probably be on IR after week 2. Honestly my only rub on him is his ability to stay healthy. Elite NFL arm and deep ball accuracy, comfortable in a pocket with some running ability.
JJ should be a 6th round pick who sits on the bench for 2 years. Then he'll be the next Brady.
Nix probably has the best short/medium accuracy, although he's got happy feet in the pocket. Him, Drake & Jayden all struggled to trust the pocket and weren't asked to do complex multiple reads like Penix or Williams.
Spencer Rattler isn't an NFL QB.
Michael Pratt may be my favorite draft/sit option. Average NFL arm, solid deep-ball accuracy, comfort in the pocket. He's got a little wobble in his ball which is why ne needs to sit.

My opinions (not where I think they'll be drafted, but where they should be drafted)
Caleb - R1P1 (start)
Penix - R1P2 (start)
Nix - R2 (year 1 sit)
Pratt - R3 (year 1 sit)
JJ - R4 (year 1/2 sit)

Everyone else is an avoid.
pretty solid take though Im higher on Nix than you are. Havent watched enough Rattler to know if he will get nicknamed "rattled" or be a day 2 steal.
 

SonicHawk

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Man, you're a tough critic. He was 21 at the time. Returned after winning the Heisman to take a shot at winning a national championship. That was his dream. That night, it slipped away. Was a big loss. Give the kid a break.
Yeah and that game was wild, he put everything on the line in that one. 27/35 for 3 TDs and a rushing TD as well.

I watched a lot of Caleb this year and he's... exceptional. That was not a great USC team and he willed them to win in that game vs Arizona and almost was able to keep up with Washington. USC was maybe the worst defense in the pac 12.
 

bigcc

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Why should they be a ground and pound?
If you are able to have a creative passing attack that opens the run
then you start pounding away and mixing it up while running the clock.
I think Grubb will do just fine.
Waldron made me sick with his stupid play calling and it was like they never
practiced the motions, jet sweeps and screens. It was a sloppy product period.
The man was never OC before so it clearly showed.
I have a very hard time seeing Grubb being worse than average with pro players
being used in his offense.
Lmao dude I've never seen someone else bring it up, but under waldron we were the worst screen team in the nfl.

I'd consider us lucky if we even got 3 yards, and with dk blocking it should not be so difficult
 

Maelstrom787

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Caleb Williams is a tier alone. NFL ready day one.

Jayden Daniels has the legs of Walmart Lamar but his mid/deep accuracy is sub par.
Drake Maye is Mitch Trubisky v2.0.
Penix has an elite arm and will probably be on IR after week 2. Honestly my only rub on him is his ability to stay healthy. Elite NFL arm and deep ball accuracy, comfortable in a pocket with some running ability.
JJ should be a 6th round pick who sits on the bench for 2 years. Then he'll be the next Brady.
Nix probably has the best short/medium accuracy, although he's got happy feet in the pocket. Him, Drake & Jayden all struggled to trust the pocket and weren't asked to do complex multiple reads like Penix or Williams.
Spencer Rattler isn't an NFL QB.
Michael Pratt may be my favorite draft/sit option. Average NFL arm, solid deep-ball accuracy, comfort in the pocket. He's got a little wobble in his ball which is why ne needs to sit.

My opinions (not where I think they'll be drafted, but where they should be drafted)
Caleb - R1P1 (start)
Penix - R1P2 (start)
Nix - R2 (year 1 sit)
Pratt - R3 (year 1 sit)
JJ - R4 (year 1/2 sit)

Everyone else is an avoid.
Aw man, I can't agree on Maye at all. He's got every tool. He can sling the rock, throw from different launch angles, throw it on a rope, get some air under it, run, throw on the run, all of it.

Up to a coach to turn that into the full results package but any coach who is confident in developing quarterbacks should be drooling over him
 

SonicHawk

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Aw man, I can't agree on Maye at all. He's got every tool. He can sling the rock, throw from different launch angles, throw it on a rope, get some air under it, run, throw on the run, all of it.

Up to a coach to turn that into the full results package but any coach who is confident in developing quarterbacks should be drooling over him
Hey, fair enough. When I watch tape I'm just not impressed. I'm not an NFL scout, just a dude who likes watching "every pass" youtube videos.
 

Maelstrom787

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Hey, fair enough. When I watch tape I'm just not impressed. I'm not an NFL scout, just a dude who likes watching "every pass" youtube videos.
I'm probably missing a larger red flag somewhere given the production not being as good as it could be, but I'm not sure what it is. I'm only seeing the potential I guess.

I hope he doesn't go to Washington. They'll screw him up.
 

sc85sis

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Yeah and that game was wild, he put everything on the line in that one. 27/35 for 3 TDs and a rushing TD as well.

I watched a lot of Caleb this year and he's... exceptional. That was not a great USC team and he willed them to win in that game vs Arizona and almost was able to keep up with Washington. USC was maybe the worst defense in the pac 12.
They had one of the worst defenses in the COUNTRY, ranked 116 out of 130 at the end of the season. And I think that was after the bowl game. Prior to that they were something like 124.
 

bsuhawk

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Man, if we trade up FROM 16 for a quarterback who has sustained 4 season ending injuries before even getting to the league and 2 of them are tearing the same ACL in the same knee, I'll have to immediately start questioning our processes.
I don't disagree with your take. However, during the interview process, there had to have been a very long discussion about possibly drafting Michael Penix, and my guess is that Grubb gave him his full support and thinks drafting him in the first round is a great idea. I mean, what better way to set up your rookie QB and OC for success than to bring them in together? Now, maybe JS and MM told Grubb it isn't going to happen and it wasn't a deal breaker, who knows? I do think Feb. 16 will be a good indicator. If the plan is to bring Grubb and Penix onboard together then it doesn't make sense to bring Geno back for another year.

My personal opinion? Use the first pick on the best defender on the board.
 

JPatera76

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Well the transfer 30 day transfer portal as of Saturday is now closed, so heres hoping we're going to hear something official from the Seahawks or Grubb himself ( lol not that he can be trusted after his press conference with Alabama fans lol) either today or monday.
 

Parallax

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His style of play apparently didn't have anything to do with why he retired.

Thank you. What a fascinating article. The thing about Luck is he's brilliant and intellectual. In my experience, the most brilliant people I've known have struggled with similar existential issues and crises. One friend, probably the smartest person I've ever known, was an attorney with gobs of talent. We had been fraternity brothers in college and he was best man at my first wedding. I'm an attorney too but nowhere near as successful as he could have been. But I've done alright and, at 60, could easily retire if I chose to, whereas my friend would jump from job to job. What kept him from being successful was internal. He once had me call a former employer of his to find out what sort of recommendation he would give. The guy said he's brilliant but it's hard to get him to show up and engage with the work.

At core were early (childhood) emotional wounds but they seem to impact people of extremely high intellect more deeply than the rest of us. My friend ultimately drank himself to death. I miss him very much. I'm glad Luck didn't go off the rails to that extent. He's been able to create a family and he certainly has tons of financial success from his time with the Colts.

One can see the way Luck wrestles with issues that most of us wouldn't engage with. We would behave certain ways just because that's what you do. (What everyone else does.) The capacity to see and think really deeply is a double edged sword; not always a blessing, though it certainly allows one to have a rich experience engaging with literature, theater, philosophy, plus other passions and, ultimately, meaning itself.
 

Nv_Hawks

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I just want to know who balled this gutsy play.
foxsports.com/watch/fmc-gzrnzf9g364pdrw6
 

WarHawks

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Thank you. What a fascinating article. The thing about Luck is he's brilliant and intellectual. In my experience, the most brilliant people I've known have struggled with similar existential issues and crises. One friend, probably the smartest person I've ever known, was an attorney with gobs of talent. We had been fraternity brothers in college and he was best man at my first wedding. I'm an attorney too but nowhere near as successful as he could have been. But I've done alright and, at 60, could easily retire if I chose to, whereas my friend would jump from job to job. What kept him from being successful was internal. He once had me call a former employer of his to find out what sort of recommendation he would give. The guy said he's brilliant but it's hard to get him to show up and engage with the work.

At core were early (childhood) emotional wounds but they seem to impact people of extremely high intellect more deeply than the rest of us. My friend ultimately drank himself to death. I miss him very much. I'm glad Luck didn't go off the rails to that extent. He's been able to create a family and he certainly has tons of financial success from his time with the Colts.

One can see the way Luck wrestles with issues that most of us wouldn't engage with. We would behave certain ways just because that's what you do. (What everyone else does.) The capacity to see and think really deeply is a double edged sword; not always a blessing, though it certainly allows one to have a rich experience engaging with literature, theater, philosophy, plus other passions and, ultimately, meaning itself.
Existentialism and football do seem to be an odd pairing.
 

seahawks08

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Ground and Pound is overrated given the continuity factor of sustaining the model without getting injuries. First we need a Lynch like character to be okay to keep beating the line and escaping injuries which is very rare. You have to balance it to what the defense gives you and still maximize time of possession. What is more critical these days is to maximize your opportunities by adjusting your team to your QB skills and maximize it by building a system around it.
 

Parallax

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Ground and Pound is overrated given the continuity factor of sustaining the model without getting injuries. First we need a Lynch like character to be okay to keep beating the line and escaping injuries which is very rare. You have to balance it to what the defense gives you and still maximize time of possession. What is more critical these days is to maximize your opportunities by adjusting your team to your QB skills and maximize it by building a system around it.
Ground and pound is antiquated. The game has changed so much. There was a time when a great running back was a key to success, second only to having a great QB. Those days are long gone. Receivers used to be sitting ducks who would take a pounding. Now they can barely be touched so the passing game is where the action is. The running game is really just there to keep defenses honest. Some backs are more athletic than others but the most elite players are made into edge rushers and receivers, so we don't see the talent differential at that position (RB versus defenders) that we once did. A good running game is less about elite running back talent than schemes and creating holes with the O line. Either your offense creates running lanes or it doesn't. Most any back on the roster can run through those holes if they're there. A Saquon Barkley might break a few more tackles than some other guy but it's not worth the draft and cap capital required, particularly when one figures in how often guys like that get injured.

San Francisco has running back talent. McCaffrey is special and so is Samuel. But they have diverse skill sets and it's the schemes that open the running lanes more than brute force. In the case of KC, it helps a lot that Mahomes is so mobile. Having a mobile QB helps with creating schemes that open both the passing and running game, as defenses get spread thin.

In my view, Seattle has been stagnant for years because Carroll was a knuckle dragger caught in the early 2010s. Heck, we were maybe the last team in the league to carry a fullback. We spent way too much draft capital and cap funds on running backs, safeties and our kicker. We didn't spend enough in the trenches. I'm hopeful that with him gone, this will begin to change. Because changing such things takes time, I don't expect the turn around to be instantaneous. We have coaches who can scheme well but they require the right players to do so.
 
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