Seahawks draft PFF nonsense

[jammerhawk]

Seems to me the team got an F grade for the 2012 draft too. This all means diddly squat.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

PFF, how cute. Good god, who gives a rip what grades someone gives the Hawks?

 

[rcaido]

Can you imagine teachers grading students without attending or doing work...Maybe wait 3 to 4 years to give the grade.

 

[Mad Dog]

Can you imagine teachers grading students without attending or doing work...Maybe wait 3 to 4 years to give the grade.

Yes all this post draft grading is like handing out a 10th grader his grade 12 grades.

 

[Smellyman]

Seems to me the team got an F grade for the 2012 draft too. This all means diddly squat.

Did the Seahawks draft well in 2012?


haven't heard

 

[kf3339]

Seems to me the team got an F grade for the 2012 draft too. This all means diddly squat.

Did the Seahawks draft well in 2012?


haven't heard

Everyone brings up the 2012 grades as example of the folly of looking at players without being in our NFL system for at least two years. The reasoning is that then you can grade based on actual results. Okay.

Then what about

2013
2014
2015
2016
2017
2018

I will leave out last years draft since they have had only one year in the league. If you are going to wait to grade those draft classes, what would be the grades then?

Personally, I think you can make a fair case that our collective grade for those years is a C, or perhaps a little lower. We have no real star players from those drafts and very few Pro Bowl players. Also, not one All Pro in the bunch.

Where we have done better is with FA signings and trades in a few cases. But the draft is where you need to build a team and that effort for those years have been average to weak at best. We are living on the ability of RW to pull out games for us. That is masking a lot of bad decisions by our FO.

It doesn't mean that myself or those who have questioned many decisions are not loyal fans as some seem to claim on this board. It just means that we would like a better effort at drafting which is and should be the core players on our team.

But, to each his own.

 

[BASF]

Everyone brings up the 2012 grades as example of the folly of looking at players without being in our NFL system for at least two years. The reasoning is that then you can grade based on actual results. Okay.

Then what about

2013
2014
2015
2016
2017
2018

I will leave out last years draft since they have had only one year in the league. If you are going to wait to grade those draft classes, what would be the grades then?

Personally, I think you can make a fair case that our collective grade for those years is a C, or perhaps a little lower. We have no real star players from those drafts and very few Pro Bowl players. Also, not one All Pro in the bunch.

Where we have done better is with FA signings and trades in a few cases. But the draft is where you need to build a team and that effort for those years have been average to weak at best. We are living on the ability of RW to pull out games for us. That is masking a lot of bad decisions by our FO.

It doesn't mean that myself or those who have questioned many decisions are not loyal fans as some seem to claim on this board. It just means that we would like a better effort at drafting which is and should be the core players on our team.

But, to each his own.

It is strange that you bring this up, because it pretty much illustrates exactly what most are saying about not trusting draft grades. Looking back at the grades given at the time, most of the drafts were considered B grades or better. Most of the big name evaluators delete their links after a season or so, so they do not look foolish, but the ones that are left are pretty telling. In the end, it does not truly matter what anyone outside of the Seahawks organization thinks of the draft. What matters is how well the coaches can get the player to develop in the Seahawks system. Many of the players they pass on are not scheme fits or they're not an "All In" type player.

 

[Nunya]

Seems to me the team got an F grade for the 2012 draft too. This all means diddly squat.

Did the Seahawks draft well in 2012?


haven't heard

Everyone brings up the 2012 grades as example of the folly of looking at players without being in our NFL system for at least two years. The reasoning is that then you can grade based on actual results. Okay.

Then what about

2013
2014
2015
2016
2017
2018

I will leave out last years draft since they have had only one year in the league. If you are going to wait to grade those draft classes, what would be the grades then?

Personally, I think you can make a fair case that our collective grade for those years is a C, or perhaps a little lower. We have no real star players from those drafts and very few Pro Bowl players. Also, not one All Pro in the bunch.

Where we have done better is with FA signings and trades in a few cases. But the draft is where you need to build a team and that effort for those years have been average to weak at best. We are living on the ability of RW to pull out games for us. That is masking a lot of bad decisions by our FO.

It doesn't mean that myself or those who have questioned many decisions are not loyal fans as some seem to claim on this board. It just means that we would like a better effort at drafting which is and should be the core players on our team.

But, to each his own.

2013 (notables)
Christine Michaels (R2, P31) - While not a HOF RB, he has been a productive player in the NFL. He was not a bad pick, just not a "star".
Jordan Hill (R3, P87) - Good player, but injuries got the best of him.
Luke Willson (R5, P158) - Still playing. Not a star, but is a good TE.
Spencer Ware (R6, P194) - Not a star, but still playing.

2014 (notables)
Paul Richardson (R2, P45) - Played through last season. Just released by the Redskins
Justin Britt (R2, P64) - Might not be a HOF'er, but is a very good OL-man.
Cassius Marsh (R4, P108) - still playing in NFL
Kevin Pierre-Louis (R4, P132) - still playing in the NFL

2015 (notables)
Frank Clark (R2, P63) - Considered one of the best DE's in the league, but doubt if he is a HOF'er
Tyler Lockett (R3, P69) - Might not be HOF material, but is a staple in our offense.
Mark Glowinski (R4, P134) - Starting OL for Colts
Tye Smith (R5, P170) - Still playing in NFL

2016 (notables)
German Ifedi
Jarran Reed
C.J. Prosise
Quinton Jefferson
Joey Hunt

2017 (notables)
Ethan Pocic
Shaquill Griffin
a number of other players still on the roster

2018
Rashaad penny
Will Dissly
Shaquem Griffin

While we did not pick many super stand-out players from 2013-2018, we did pick a number of good players.....many of them still playing in the NFL. I would bet if the same analysis was done on every team in the NFL, it would look similar.

 

[johnnyfever]

We keep talking about the 2012 draft. That was nearly a decade ago. Since then, seahawks have drafted mediocre at best. C- is what we have been doing for a while. I'm no draft guru by any stretch, but am a mat and probabilities guy. Changing 6 picks to 3 keepers, vs changing 6 picks to 8 washouts hasn't worked out too well.

As has been said, you cant tell until 2 years after. Based on the last 8 years of their strategy, and looking back in hindsight the way they evaluate might be a bit flawed now that pete doesnt have extensive knowledge of the draft class like he did in 12.

It is always a crapshoot, but the "bulletin board material" thing doesnt seem to be working as they have had "bulletin board" material for 8 years. The bulletin board material tended to be more accurate.

Maybe just give it a shot to stop trying to outthink everyone, and instead play the numbers game. Take all the various mock draft info and evaluations from draft evaluators across the league and set up a spreadsheet to find commonalities. Identify the average mean for each player, and assign a positional grade. At the same time, look at team seahawks statistics and identify the points of most to least need. At draft time, take the best player available in the category of highest need. Work the numbers, and stop with the gut feeling stuff for at least a year or two just to have a comparison down the road of the best way to get optimal draft picks.

Also- look at previous drafts and who has done the best. What are they doing. Identify and emulate. You dont have to reinvent the wheel here. Play the probabilities and find the most likely chance for success.

 

[johnnyfever]

Over nfl history, 1st rounders historically have much better longevity and play at a higher level based on pro bowl selection.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the Bush is born out in the statistical history of the nfl. Trading up seems to work if you want quality long term players

https://www.profootballhof.com/heroes-o ... aft-round/

 

[johnnyfever]

Here is the seahawks draft history. Not the best as far as evaluation goes in recent history.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... /draft.htm

 

[johnnyfever]

Then I find this, which completely blows my theory out of the water.

Who the **** knows.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ganggr ... in-the-nfl

 

[toffee]

Then I find this, which completely blows my theory out of the water.

Who the **** knows.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ganggr ... in-the-nfl

If the same study would to be done on the last five seasons, results might be a bit different?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[chris98251]

The problem with some grades is that we had a great draft in 2012, we had most our staples in place so any draft after unless it was a targeted position was not going to displace the Linebackers or the Secondary, then you had Lynch and Baldwin and Wilson, again who do you displace, Avril and Bennett, Clemons, all guys who were staples going forward. This team was hard to crack, we needed roll players and got them. By the time they had aged the rest of the league had adapted to that kind of player, our style of defense so the pickings had got slim. On offense we had Bevell and Cable, we are still in transition there.

 

[Rat]

2013 (notables)
Christine Michaels (R2, P31) - While not a HOF RB, he has been a productive player in the NFL. He was not a bad pick, just not a "star".

Are we thinking of the same player? If you use a second round pick on a RB and he becomes a CMike, that's just barely above worse case scenario. He was a disaster. A scouting staff should be eviscerated for even suggesting a back with awful instincts; that's like at least half their game.

I agree with your overall point, but I would run far away from this example.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I don't think Christine Michael had bad instincts. The guy had moments where he looked like AP. His issue is that he had a learning disability, and furthermore he came in here and didn't take things seriously. He didn't understand where to line up even after years being here. He never grasped the offense, and it made him tentative. He never knew what he was supposed to be doing. The NFL game was too much for him to catch on to. I'd argue that this has been a consistent theme with this FO. They overlook massive character flaws, or think that perhaps they're reparable. It worked out with Clark and Marshawn Lynch, though, through some google searching you would've seen that Lynch got a raw deal in Buffalo.

This has also failed us on numerous occasions with Malik McDowell, Percy Harvin, Christine Michael, and to a lesser extent Penny. Now a bit on Penny, he can still turn it around but we've pretty much have lost most of the value on his rookie contract. His issue is he came in like he owned the place and didn't put the work in. He came in each of the offseasons 20 pounds overweight, and he didn't have a strong grasp on the playbook.

 

[Rat]

He never knew what he was supposed to be doing.

That’s what made me believe he has poor instincts. It didn’t seem to come naturally to him, and he looked like he struggled to see the field; he wasn’t a guy who could see where the hole would be three steps ahead, like you hear with the great ones.

Your articulate response makes me wonder if I was looking at it in a short-sighted way.

 

[HawkStrong]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Seahawks/comme ... ds_1_and_2

 

[jeremiah]

These are the same group of fools (National sportswriters, bloggers, and talking heads) that give the Cowboys an “A” EVERY YEAR for their drafts when they only make the playoffs every other year in the 2nd worst division in football.

Let that sink in for a minute.

If every draft the Cowboys have is an “A”, shouldn’t they be making the playoffs every year? ........like Seattle does, who grades out as C to F’s according to these goobers. Their grades don’t add up.

How many years in a row did Notre Dame have the top recruiting class "according to experts"? What kind of National Championship team have they made in the last 10 years? Experts appoint themselves. Think about that one.