PFF Rankings as of Week 2

RiverDog

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I just subscribed to PFF as it offers one of the better football analyses in the business. I think that they are very well done and do a good job at a very difficult task. I understand that a lot of you don't put a lot of weight on their ratings and rankings, but at the very least, they make for a good discussion point.

I've gone down the rankings after the first two weeks of the season, showing where our guys are ranked and the top player at each position.

Offense

QB's (33 ranked): Geno Smith, #4. Top ranked: Kyler Murray, Cards.
WR (102 ranked): Tyler Lockett #18, JSN #28, DK Metcalf #48. Top Ranked: Chris Godwin, Bucs
HB (48 ranked): Kenneth Walker, #9, Zach C #45. Top Ranked: James Cook, Bills
TE (62 ranked): AJ Barner, #48, Noah Fant #52. Top Ranked: Isiah Likely, Ravens
C (33 ranked): Conner Williams, #15, Top Ranked: Eric McCoy, Saints.
G (65 ranked): Laken Tomlinson, #36, Anthony Bradford #54. Top Ranked: Lucas Patrick, Saints.
T (68 ranked): Charles Cross, #1, Stone Forsythe, #52. Top Ranked: Charles Cross, Hawks

Defense

CB (96 ranked): Tariq Woolen, #1, Devon Witherspoon, #11, Tre Brown, #44. Top Ranked: Tariq Woolen, Hawks
S (76 ranked): Julian Love, #2, Rayshawn Jenkins, #6. Top Ranked: Elijah Molden, LAC
LB (71 ranked): Jerome Baker, #32, Tyrel Dodson, #36. Top Ranked: Fred Warner, Niners.
DT (111 ranked): Leonard Williams, #4, Jarron Reed, #39, Byron Murphy, #49, Jonathan Hankins #92. Top Ranked: Dexter Lawrence, NYG
Edge (102 ranked): Boye Mafe, #14. Derrick Hall #28, Dre Mont Jones, #55. Top Ranked: Adian Hutchinson, Lions.

I included the number of players ranked as we have to keep the individual rankings in perspective. For example, Conner Williams' #15 ranking, while not bad, isn't nearly as good as Devon Witherspoon's #11 ranking at cornerback. There are only 32 starting centers while there's 64 starting cornerbacks, meaning that the midpoint for center is #16 while midpoint for cornerback is #32. Williams is in the top 50% of starting centers while Witherspoon is roughly in the top 1/3rd of starting cornerbacks. Additionally, there were a lot more non-starting cornerbacks (64) that got enough snaps to qualify for a ranking than there were non starting centers (1), which has an effect on the overall ranking.

A lot of this meets the eye test. Any of us who have watched the Lions don't need a PFF ranking to understand what kind of season Adian Hutchinson is having. It also makes sense that the Saints have the top ranked center and guard. They also have the #3 ranked rushing offense.

The highlights on defense for us include Tariq Woolen a huge improvement over last season when he was benched for a period of time. Witherspoon's #11 ranking is no surprise as he was ranked in or near the top 10 all last season. And there's a huge improvement in our safety play, with Love and Jenkins being ranked in the top 6, quite a change from what we saw with last season's safety pair of Adams and Diggs. We've given up very few big plays so far this season, and that's reflected in their rankings. Boye Mafe and Derrick Hall have made big strides (at least according to the rankings) so far under Mac. Disappointments might include Byron Murphy.

On offense, obviously Geno's had a solid first two games, but the real surprise is Charles Cross. We've seen a big improvement in our center's ranking as we're used to seeing them ranked somewhere in the high 20's or 30's. Lockett's ranked about the same as last season, but Metcalf has slipped in these first two games. Tight end, guard, and right tackle look to be weak spots, which meets my eye test.

Overall, it's a very good report card for our first two games. But then again, it's only two games and our competition can't be considered first rate.
 
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RiverDog

RiverDog

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And BTW, if any of you have a question about a specific PFF rating or ranking, such as who are the top 10 ranked QB's, please do not hesitate to ask by replying to this thread and tagging me.
 

Mad Dog

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Pretty much what we've seen. Great secondary, Good DL, serviceable LBs. Mediocre OL and TE play (other than Cross), and great play from Geno and K9.
 

bigskydoc

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It would be interesting if they ranked receiver corps as groups. Sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Last week, the duo of Metcalf and JSN were dynamite. The week before it was Lockett and JSN.

It’s nice having a trio of guys, each of whom has the potential to step up on any given day.
 

oldhawkfan

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After what we’ve seen at center the last number of years since Max Unger was traded, I’ll take a 15th ranked Conner Williams.
 
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RiverDog

RiverDog

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It would be interesting if they ranked receiver corps as groups. Sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Last week, the duo of Metcalf and JSN were dynamite. The week before it was Lockett and JSN.

It’s nice having a trio of guys, each of whom has the potential to step up on any given day.
Yeah, it would be interesting. The offensive line is another example of a position group where the whole can be greater than the sum of the individual players. But I don't know how a person could make an accurate, objective appraisal without inside information that only the players and coaching staff would know.
 

Seahawkfan80

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It would be interesting if they ranked receiver corps as groups. Sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Last week, the duo of Metcalf and JSN were dynamite. The week before it was Lockett and JSN.

It’s nice having a trio of guys, each of whom has the potential to step up on any given day.
How would that be done? Would you go for all 4 receivers, or would you go with the 4 receivers and both tight ends, or go with 4 receivers and both tight ends and running backs that catch the ball? It would be an interesting algorithm.
 

bigskydoc

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Since they have individual grades for each player, it should be fairly easy to meld them into one, overall, average grade.

In fact, once the methodology is established, it would be no problem to apply it to whichever subset of receivers you wish.

Top three, all four, all four plus tight ends etc.
 
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RiverDog

RiverDog

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Since they have individual grades for each player, it should be fairly easy to meld them into one, overall, average grade.

In fact, once the methodology is established, it would be no problem to apply it to whichever subset of receivers you wish.

Top three, all four, all four plus tight ends etc.
I'm not sure how that would work. You yourself said that there are occasions where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and what you seem to be indicating is simply adding up the ratings and ranking them by an average, in other words, going by the sum of the parts.

It's pretty hard to quantify the effect DK Metcalf has on secondaries, identify when a receiver ran the wrong route, or whether it was him or the QB that were on the wrong page.

It might be possible to get a somewhat objective ranking of the offensive line by combining measurables like yards rushing, a QB pressure to pass play ratio, etc, and indeed, they do have OL rankings. But even that's full of variables. How does one quantify an OL's performance when you have a QB like Russell Wilson holding onto the ball for an eternity?

In any event, I'm not sure how accurate of an assessment you could make on a position group.
 

bigskydoc

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I'm not sure how that would work. You yourself said that there are occasions where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and what you seem to be indicating is simply adding up the ratings and ranking them by an average, in other words, going by the sum of the parts.

It's pretty hard to quantify the effect DK Metcalf has on secondaries, identify when a receiver ran the wrong route, or whether it was him or the QB that were on the wrong page.

It might be possible to get a somewhat objective ranking of the offensive line by combining measurables like yards rushing, a QB pressure to pass play ratio, etc, and indeed, they do have OL rankings. But even that's full of variables. How does one quantify an OL's performance when you have a QB like Russell Wilson holding onto the ball for an eternity?

In any event, I'm not sure how accurate of an assessment you could make on a position group.
I guess I'm seeing it as total unit production. For example, the Broncos defense keyed in on taking Metcalf out of the game, and Lockett and JSN had big games. The Patriots keyed in on Lockett, and Metcalf and JSN had big games. Dolphins keyed in on JSN, and Lockett and Metcalf did well.

I think the while effect can be somewhat captured by seeing the production of the other receivers, when one is taken out of the game.

Obviously not perfectly. When are any of PFFs advanced stats perfect? Still, reasonable, I think
 
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RiverDog

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I guess I'm seeing it as total unit production. For example, the Broncos defense keyed in on taking Metcalf out of the game, and Lockett and JSN had big games. The Patriots keyed in on Lockett, and Metcalf and JSN had big games. Dolphins keyed in on JSN, and Lockett and Metcalf did well.

I think the while effect can be somewhat captured by seeing the production of the other receivers, when one is taken out of the game.

Obviously not perfectly. When are any of PFFs advanced stats perfect? Still, reasonable, I think
I agree with your logic, but I don't know how a person can quantify it and put a number on it in the same way that PFF has done with their rankings. At least with PFF, an analyst can determine on a scale of 1 to 10 whether or not an individual lineman 'won' his assignment, if a qb threw a catchable ball, or if a cornerback defended a pass and assign a grade or number to the play. I'm not sure how you could do that in a situation where a defense 'keys' on Metcalf, Lockett, et al and give him X number of points for just being on the field.

And you're exactly right about PFF's stats. They aren't perfect. No stat or ranking in any sport can be considered perfect. But they do as good of a job as humanly possible at a very difficult task and more times than not, pass the eye test.
 
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Polk738

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Disappointments might include Byron Murphy.

I'd say Murphy has been anything but a disappointment, he may not be getting a lot of the flashy stats but he's been a good contributor on that line paired with Williams and Reed, I have no doubt in my mind that he will make the jump next season just like Hall and Mafe did.
 
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RiverDog

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I'd say Murphy has been anything but a disappointment, he may not be getting a lot of the flashy stats but he's been a good contributor on that line paired with Williams and Reed, I have no doubt in my mind that he will make the jump next season just like Hall and Mafe did.
Which is why I said 'might be.' To be honest, I haven't broken down the games to that kind of degree. On Sundays, I'm multitasking, with both the Hawks game and the Red Zone on simultaneously.
 
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