Sam Howell is Geno's Backup!!

[nanomoz]

Howell is 6 months younger than Penix.

Even better.

 

[olyfan63]

Howell had a couple good receivers with the Commies, Terry McLaurin was worth two receivers. He seemed to find another guy too, Dotson I think. He'll love Tyler, DK, and JSN. Bobo too, hoping Bobo gets enough snaps to factor in.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Howell had a couple good receivers with the Commies, Terry McLaurin was worth two receivers. He seemed to find another guy too, Dotson I think. He'll love Tyler, DK, and JSN. Bobo too, hoping Bobo gets enough snaps to factor in.

Dude has an elite arm and is pretty mobile. Let's not panic and see what he can be on a non dumpster fire organization. Make no mistake he's not the answer but he gives us more time given Geno will be gone after this year.

 

[olyfan63]

Dude has an elite arm and is pretty mobile. Let's not panic and see what he can be on a non dumpster fire organization. Make no mistake he's not the answer but he gives us more time given Geno will be gone after this year.

I know you like Spencer Rattler, so it's good to see you're positive or at least wait-and-see on Howell. I like what I saw of Howell and was impressed with what I saw in the dumpster fire setting. He was under pressure SO MUCH in DC. Geno will be a good mentor for him. I really liked seeing how Geno supported Lock when Lock got the starts or drives when Geno was injured.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I know you like Spencer Rattler, so it's good to see you're positive or at least wait-and-see on Howell. I like what I saw of Howell and was impressed with what I saw in the dumpster fire setting. He was under pressure SO MUCH in DC. Geno will be a good mentor for him. I really liked seeing how Geno supported Lock when Lock got the starts or drives when Geno was injured.

I like Rattler because he is very similar to Howell and performed pretty well as Howell in the very same conditions. So I'm good with Howell and Geno isn't like a trash mentor like say Russell Wilson? Kenny Pickett got traded because of this. I'd still like them to draft Rattler if possible though.

 

[olyfan63]

I like Rattler because he is very similar to Howell and performed pretty well as Howell in the very same conditions.

Interesting to know. I haven't really followed Rattler after he transferred. Definitely matured and improved. MVP of Senior Bowl was a nice honor for him. Beating #5 Tennessee and #8 Clemson back to back in his junior year was a good look for him too.

 

[olyfan63]

Yup. I can't think of one QB that came out recently and took over the NFL day one and never let it go. They might have flashes their first season, then the NFL studies them and they fade.

C. J. Stroud would like a word with you...

 

[RiverDog]

I'm sure the data is accurate but I think you're using the wrong metric as a measuring stick and you might be drawing the wrong conclusion because of it. Win-loss % on trades is irrelevant. If you wagered $10 on 29 bets where 5 bets won and total returns were $400 then the 5-24 record wouldn't be the best measuring stick. Qualitative analysis of picking QBs is beyond the best of current think-tanks. The reward part of the QB risk-reward analysis is so much higher for QB that they will normally be over-drafted. That's likely true whether you trade up for a specific QB or take the best QB available when you pick. Trading for proven QBs or overpaying FA QBs also seems to be a poor value proposition. Is trying to win without a QB any better? Again, i'm not saying your conclusion is wrong, but don't treat it as an absolute truth.

You have to go back to my debate with @Bear-Hawk. Here's what he said:

That is why Seahawks should trade up to #9 with the Bears. The opportunity will probably be WORSE in 2025. And even if you don’t get Nix or McCarthy at #9, you get your pick of the best defensive linemen. That’s not a bad consolation prize!

He's advocating trading up to #9 prior to the draft, that simply moving up 7 slots for some unknown player is a good idea. That's why I went on my rant about trading up in the first round for a quarterback. It's already a risky proposition, and even riskier if you haven't homed in on a specific target.

As I said earlier, I don't mind trading up IF we are sure that our man is going to be there. I don't want to be blindly selling the farm on a very expensive trade...and trading into the top 10 is hugely expensive...unless we know he's going to be there, and the only way to know that will be when #9 is on the clock.

I've also expressed confidence in our GM's ability to judge quarterbacks and that if he wants to trade up to get one, then I'm all for it.

 

[Lagartixa]

If you're actually going to imply that Seattle didn't have an excellent record of quarterback development under Carroll, I don't even know what to say. That's just straight up wrong lol

[Boldface and color emphasis is mine]

Seriously. The haul of draft capital and roster-worthy players the Seahawks got in trade for Russell Wilson and the even-better offers the Seahawks got for Wilson, but that Wilson used his no-trade clause to veto, show how highly the league was valuing Wilson after ten seasons under Carroll.

Considering that in 2012, Wilson fell all the way to pick #75 in the draft, in the middle of the third round, we can see how much Wilson's stock went up under Carroll.

That plus Wilson's performance away from Carroll, including with the head coach Wilson himself had wanted since he was still on the Seahawks, a coach who was brought in by the Broncos specifically to try to get as much out of Wilson for the Broncos as possible, shows that Carroll would deserve a Nobel Prize in NFL coaching if such a thing existed, just for the unbelievably successful work he did with Russell Wilson, getting the absolute maximum out of what Wilson did well and minimizing incredibly well the effects of Wilson's limitations.

Just looking at the QB-coaching aspect of his job, Carroll made a silk purse out of a sow's ear at QB twice as Seahawks head coach.

 

[RiverDog]

[Boldface and color emphasis is mine]

Seriously. The haul of draft capital and roster-worthy players the Seahawks got in trade for Russell Wilson and the even-better offers the Seahawks got for Wilson, but that Wilson used his no-trade clause to veto, show how highly the league was valuing Wilson after ten seasons under Carroll.

Considering that in 2012, Wilson fell all the way to pick #75 in the draft, in the middle of the third round, we can see how much Wilson's stock went up under Carroll.

That plus Wilson's performance away from Carroll, including with the head coach Wilson himself had wanted since he was still on the Seahawks, a coach who was brought in by the Broncos specifically to try to get as much out of Wilson for the Broncos as possible, shows that Carroll would deserve a Nobel Prize in NFL coaching if such a thing existed, just for the unbelievably successful work he did with Russell Wilson, getting the absolute maximum out of what Wilson did well and minimizing incredibly well the effects of Wilson's limitations.

Just looking at the QB-coaching aspect of his job, Carroll made a silk purse out of a sow's ear at QB twice as Seahawks head coach.

Pete didn't require a lot out of his quarterbacks. Mark Sanchez, Matt Leinart, and Carson Palmer, all very successful under Carroll at USC, were much less successful, especially Leinart and Sanchez, when they got to the NFL. They had running backs like Reggie Bush and Lendale White to hand off to and a defense that never required them to play from behind.

When Pete brought in Russell, he didn't ask a lot of him. All he wanted him to do was to operate his run-first offense, limit turnovers and not put the defense in bad positions, and score when given the opportunity. He did not ask him to put up 30 ppg as one might a Peyton Manning.

Most of Russell's success was early in his career when he was a fart in a skillet. He never developed into a more traditional pocket passing quarterback. Was this Pete's fault? Maybe, maybe not. But I don't think that you can use Russell's market value when we traded him to Denver, which has now proven to have been vastly inflated, as evidence that Pete was some sort of quarterback whisperer.

 

[WarHawks]

I looked at Rattler's tape, and he looks wildly inaccurate and inconsistent. Hard pass for me. With next year's class being weak, it now looks like 2026, if then, before we are able to draft a top qb prospect. That's why I was hoping this was the year. That being the case, I hope Howell can magically become much better, otherwise I don't see a viable end game to this entire qbotf discussion for years.

 

[Cyrus12]

I looked at Rattler's tape, and he looks wildly inaccurate and inconsistent. Hard pass for me. With next year's class being weak, it now looks like 2026, if then, before we are able to draft a top qb prospect. That's why I was hoping this was the year. That being the case, I hope Howell can magically become much better, otherwise I don't see a viable end game to this entire qbotf discussion for years.

Drafting an actual franchise qb is becoming almost impossible..even the guys who are hyped the last few years have been epic busts. How many teams actually have a qbotf on their team right now?? This league is starving at qb talent.

 

[WarHawks]

^very true.

 

[xray]

<

 

[Hawkinaz]

Yeah, if you don’t care whether you get #4,5, or 6, then just sit at #16 and take whatever falls to you. But if you want your #4, you guarantee getting it by trading up to #9, instead of watching him go to the Broncos at #12. I assure you I am saying this as a Seahawks fan and see it as a win-win deal.

Edit: I just read that Vikings will take McCarthy at #11.

Vikings have recently acquired the Texans 1st rd pick, word has it they will trade up to #3 sending 2 2024 1st rd and 1 2025 picks. Minnesota loves Drake Maye

 

[Hawkinaz]

You have to go back to my debate with @Bear-Hawk. Here's what he said:

That is why Seahawks should trade up to #9 with the Bears. The opportunity will probably be WORSE in 2025. And even if you don’t get Nix or McCarthy at #9, you get your pick of the best defensive linemen. That’s not a bad consolation prize!

He's advocating trading up to #9 prior to the draft, that simply moving up 7 slots for some unknown player is a good idea. That's why I went on my rant about trading up in the first round for a quarterback. It's already a risky proposition, and even riskier if you haven't homed in on a specific target.

As I said earlier, I don't mind trading up IF we are sure that our man is going to be there. I don't want to be blindly selling the farm on a very expensive trade...and trading into the top 10 is hugely expensive...unless we know he's going to be there, and the only way to know that will be when #9 is on the clock.

I've also expressed confidence in our GM's ability to judge quarterbacks and that if he wants to trade up to get one, then I'm all for it.

Bear-Hawk seems to be highly focused on the #9 pick I think he is more of a Bears than a Hawks fan, he has said he wants the Bears to trade back to #16 and draft JPJ. Seahawks need more picks not less

JS just drafted his QB it was off of the Commanders roster

 

[Bear-Hawk]

Drafting an actual franchise qb is becoming almost impossible..even the guys who are hyped the last few years have been epic busts. How many teams actually have a qbotf on their team right now?? This league is starving at qb talent.

I have been watching NFL for 60 years. The game has become incredibly more complex in the variety of schemes that offensive and defensive coordinators employ to confuse the opponent. And the players are much bigger and faster in executing plays within those more complex schemes. It takes a quarterback with a high football IQ and a brain that can process complex information in under 2.5 seconds. The speed and complexity of the NFL compared to college is so great that we can’t predict with accuracy when drafting a QB. You just have take your best guess and pull the trigger. You can find your QB1 anywhere in the draft (like Purdy).

Two things are true:
1. It is difficult to draft a franchise QB. It’s not an exact science.
2. You can’t get a hit if you never swing the bat. If you miss, try again….and again…and again. Grossman, McNoun, Trubisky, Fields, Williams.

 

[CPHawk]

He's 23. His career is just getting going.

Exactly. If this guy had stayed in school and used the Covid year, he would be being talked as a 1-2 round pick right now. He’s the same age as Nix, Penix and Daniels.

 

[Bear-Hawk]

Bear-Hawk seems to be highly focused on the #9 pick I think he is more of a Bears than a Hawks fan, he has said he wants the Bears to trade back to #16 and draft JPJ. Seahawks need more picks not less

JS just drafted his QB it was off of the Commanders roster

I am a fan of both teams. Getting a QB is more important than whether you have +/- one pick in 2025. I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but I feel that we will waste two years with Howell before drafting a QB.

 

[Jac]

I have been watching NFL for 60 years. The game has become incredibly more complex in the variety of schemes that offensive and defensive coordinators employ to confuse the opponent. And the players are much bigger and faster in executing plays within those more complex schemes. It takes a quarterback with a high football IQ and a brain that can process complex information in under 2.5 seconds. The speed and complexity of the NFL compared to college is so great that we can’t predict with accuracy when drafting a QB. You just have take your best guess and pull the trigger. You can find your QB1 anywhere in the draft (like Purdy).

Two things are true:
1. It is difficult to draft a franchise QB. It’s not an exact science.
2. You can’t get a hit if you never swing the bat. If you miss, try again….and again…and again. Grossman, McNoun, Trubisky, Fields, Williams.

Yeah, I've gone from being hyper-focused on "he can make all the throws" to more emphasis on something like "he can find the right throws to make". The latter is so important but so difficult to scout/evaluate based on the college game.