Ryan Clark: Russell Wilson ‘not an all-time great QB’

[Spin Doctor]

All a matter of opinion. He'll be in HOF imo.

I'm not so sure that he's getting in. The HOF is all about the narrative surrounding the player. Wilson has been to two Super Bowl and normally with his production, that'd be a slam dunk Canton trip. I think if Wilson's career continues down this trajectory, he's going to end up like Alexander -- on the outside looking in.

Shaun Alexander by all rights should be in the HOF if you look at his stats. 8th in all time TDs, close to 10k rushing yards, MVP of the league. He's ahead of many HOFers in rushing totals and TDs. Why isn't he in the HOF? His reputation on the field. He was known for being extremely soft and him running behind two HOFers in Walter Jones and Hutchinson was also a demerit in some people's eyes.

Wilson has faced one of the quickest perception shifts that I have ever seen on a player. People are questioning his whole career across the league, including the people that vote on Canton inductions. His Super Bowl victory likely doesn't do much for him either. People will quickly point out the LOB, the greatest, most storied defense of the modern era. He was a driving force on those teams, but the main star was always the defense. In addition to this on offense we have the lore of Marshawn Lynch. Wilson was very much so an afterthought in everyone's eyes during our championship runs.

The next part is the biggest indictment on Wilson. When Seattle needed Wilson to come up big in the Super Bowl, he through a pick on the one yard line. That moment will forever live in infamy in the NFL. It was one of the wildest finishes of a Super Bowl. The narrative then all went back to Lynch once again "Lynch would've punched the ball in" or "Lynch was the heart of that offense".

What is worse is the lack of playoff success and inconsistent offenses Seattle has fielded since they handed the keys to Wilson. Wilson's playoff record after the LOB heyday is not pretty. It is under .500 and never have we been past the divisional playoff since the LOB started getting dismantled in 2015 and the keys were handed to Wilson.

What is even worse than that is Wilson's success in Denver. He is currently architecting the worst offense in the NFL. He's failing at doing basic procedural stuff properly, he looks like a system QB. "System QB" is the newest buzzword around the media. All of the sudden, people the talking heads are heralding Pete Carroll's genius and bashing Wilson. In addition to this, his exit in Seattle and all of the stuff coming out about him is really tanking the public perception of him.

Wilson could very well fail to make the HOF. He's failing to run a conventional offense, his biggest keystone moment in his career was the goal line pick and now there is a narrative about his overall time in Seattle and him being nothing but a system QB.

Wilson certainly has the stats, but even still he's never even gotten an all-pro, or a single MVP vote, his most memorable postseason moment was him throwing a game sealing pick on the goal line. In the age of the passing NFL and statistical juggernauts, Wilson suddenly look less appealing considering all of the above. I could very easily see him not making it.

 

[Seahawks Guy]

He doesn't belong on a top 20 QB list, but probably top 40 or 50. He's the best QB in Seahawks history, which of course isn't saying a whole lot (no disrespect to Hass, Krieg, etc).

 

[balakoth]

He's absolutely wrong. Still some work to do to go down as one of the best ever. Clark wanted attention, we gave it to him. He literally said that Russ isn't someone who can change the game and take over. You can't take someone serious who says stuff like that. But I'm just a Russ homer so...........
It doesn't matter one bit what he thinks. Time will tell, but he will likely go down as an all time great, and a HOF.

Need a few examples of these

 

[LickMyNuts]

I think a lot of RW’s stats are going to get watered down by todays and future QB’s.

He’s not going to get a lot of credit for winning a SB but he gets most of the blame for losing the second one.

I would say he won’t go down as an all time great unless he wins another SB because his stats won’t stack up well.

 

[Mick063]

If you are not going to call Bert Jones an all-time great, then Wilson doesn't belong in that conversation either.

Who is Bert Jones you ask?

Yea.....that is what they will be asking about Russell Wilson about 30 years from now. Hell, folks are already starting to forget who Dan Fouts was.

All-Time doesn't mean "as far back as I can remember" All Time = All Time. There are 30+ quarterbacks in NFL history that were better football players. Don't let the rule changes warp your perspective either. Before free agency and roster churn, quarterbacks were groomed for a few years before they got their shot and played with the same players for most of their career. This went well beyond the learning curve of incorporating new bodies on an annual basis. The execution and discipline was much, much better. Blocking and tackling was better because practice was in full pads with real drills. Hell, players don't even play in pre-season anymore. You don't get good unless you spend time together as a team.

Like Brady said; "I see a lot of bad football out there." He is right. The quality of the game has gotten incrementally worse. I'm not talking about the quality of athlete (which has gotten better). I'm talking about the quality of the game. This is why "All-Time" discussions are a farce. It is better to do comparative analysis within eras. Specifically defined by rule sets, collective bargaining-imposed practice restrictions, and free agency.

 

[DarkVictory23]

Wilson has faced one of the quickest perception shifts that I have ever seen on a player. People are questioning his whole career across the league, including the people that vote on Canton inductions. His Super Bowl victory likely doesn't do much for him either. People will quickly point out the LOB, the greatest, most storied defense of the modern era. He was a driving force on those teams, but the main star was always the defense. In addition to this on offense we have the lore of Marshawn Lynch. Wilson was very much so an afterthought in everyone's eyes during our championship runs.

This is the really interesting thing with Russ is that he's actually had two distinct narrative shifts across his career.

As you mentioned, during the Super Bowl years at the time, he was still not considered a cornerstone of this team. It was very much a 'The Legion of Boom and Beast Mode presents: The Seattle Seahawks! Also featuring Russell Wilson' situation.

Then as the years went by and Russ thrilled with amazing plays and the LOB and Marshawn all slowly disappeared, Russ's importance in those was inflated above what anyone had said at the time.

Now, the shift has been even quicker and more dramatic, this time the other way. It's easy to imagine that his career might be bookended by these two negative (or at least not HOF worthy) takes and thus sealing him out of Canton. I think his case is very much riding on how this Denver experiment plays out.

 

[Throwdown]

Man the beginning of this thread is a fun read

 

[Boohman14]

If you are not going to call Bert Jones an all-time great, then Wilson doesn't belong in that conversation either.

Who is Bert Jones you ask?

Yea.....that is what they will be asking about Russell Wilson about 30 years from now. Hell, folks are already starting to forget who Dan Fouts was.

All-Time doesn't mean "as far back as I can remember" All Time = All Time. There are 30+ quarterbacks in NFL history that were better football players. Don't let the rule changes warp your perspective either. Before free agency and roster churn, quarterbacks were groomed for a few years before they got their shot and played with the same players for most of their career. This went well beyond the learning curve of incorporating new bodies on an annual basis. The execution and discipline was much, much better. Blocking and tackling was better because practice was in full pads with real drills. Hell, players don't even play in pre-season anymore. You don't get good unless you spend time together as a team.

Like Brady said; "I see a lot of bad football out there." He is right. The quality of the game has gotten incrementally worse. I'm not talking about the quality of athlete (which has gotten better). I'm talking about the quality of the game. This is why "All-Time" discussions are a farce. It is better to do comparative analysis within eras. Specifically defined by rule sets, collective bargaining-imposed practice restrictions, and free agency.

Bert Jones in this era would eclipse anyone playing now. He had a cannon for an arm, tough as hell, was a threat to run. He was like a faster, smarter Elway. The difference is, in his era QB's were still treated like football players and could get cheap shotted, slammed around, late hit and as long as it was egregious it was legal.

 

[RiverDog]

I've said for the past 3-4 years that Russell was going to need either a league or Super Bowl MVP in order to be considered first ballot HOF. His career numbers simply don't cut it. For example, Joe Flacco, Mathew Stafford, and Matt Ryan, all QB's in his era and not considered first ballot, all have more passing yardage than Russell. Prior to this season, he was definitely on the bubble.

IMO Russell realized this, too, which was one of the reasons why he wanted out of Seattle. He could not see himself winning either a league MVP or returning to the Super Bowl.

It's only 6 games into his 'new' career in Denver, but if it ends badly, it will kill any chance he might have had at making the HOF.

 

[toffee]

Russell Wilson IS the all time great PeteBall quarterback, bar none!!!

 

[toffee]

Then as the years went by and Russ thrilled with amazing plays and the LOB and Marshawn all slowly disappeared, Russ's importance in those was inflated above what anyone had said at the time.

I was all onboard when Pete cleanse the team with Wilson distractors, this is a QB centric league and we had a QB that was seemingly ready to take charges, I was a John63 at the time. What followed, however, disheartened me, Wilson failed to lift his game up a notch, or build locker room leadership. Instead, he spent more and more time off the football, doing his Hollywood stuffs etc., which drove him even further from the locker room. Even on the field, I felt like he prioritize his personal stat over the team's, by 2020, I was ready to call for trading Wilson, here on dot net.