RW growth: The next phase

[idahohawk]

All RW discussions aside, you won't see growth and improvement behind this OL, unless a miracle occurs and they all of a sudden morph into an average OL.

 

[Spin Doctor]

All RW discussions aside, you won't see growth and improvement behind this OL, unless a miracle occurs and they all of a sudden morph into an average OL.

I keep seeing this argument over the years, it's the O-Line! Yes, it is true that the O-Line does play a part, but so does Wilson consistently holding the ball longer than any QB in the NFL. So does Wilson walking himself into a sack, or big hit. Even if Wilson had a good O-Line I do not think they would look all that great with him behind center, it's just the nature of his game, and ability to improvise. That also comes at a cost, negative plays.

 

[Smellyman]

All RW discussions aside, you won't see growth and improvement behind this OL, unless a miracle occurs and they all of a sudden morph into an average OL.

I keep seeing this argument over the years, it's the O-Line! Yes, it is true that the O-Line does play a part, but so does Wilson consistently holding the ball longer than any QB in the NFL. So does Wilson walking himself into a sack, or big hit. Even if Wilson had a good O-Line I do not think they would look all that great with him behind center, it's just the nature of his game, and ability to improvise. That also comes at a cost, negative plays.

He'd look like he did in NC State and Wisconsin where he had the best passer rating in NCAA history.

Career 63% passer in the NFL and this season 70%. If ony he wasn't such a rough passer with these unbelieveable Olines and great WR's he has had in his career.

Holding onto the ball, taking sacks? I take that every time since he is the best playmaker I have ever seen from the QB position and had one of the best first 3 years of a career of all time. I take all of it.

 

[evergreen]

All RW discussions aside, you won't see growth and improvement behind this OL, unless a miracle occurs and they all of a sudden morph into an average OL.

I keep seeing this argument over the years, it's the O-Line! Yes, it is true that the O-Line does play a part, but so does Wilson consistently holding the ball longer than any QB in the NFL. So does Wilson walking himself into a sack, or big hit. Even if Wilson had a good O-Line I do not think they would look all that great with him behind center, it's just the nature of his game, and ability to improvise. That also comes at a cost, negative plays.

He'd look like he did in NC State and Wisconsin where he had the best passer rating in NCAA history.

Career 63% passer in the NFL and this season 70%. If ony he wasn't such a rough passer with these unbelieveable Olines and great WR's he has had in his career.

Holding onto the ball, taking sacks? I take that every time since he is the best playmaker I have ever seen from the QB position and had one of the best first 3 years of a career of all time. I take all of it.

I'll second that.

 

[Crizilla]

"growth"

lel

RW won't grow anymore. He's a manlet. Deal with it. He'll never be as good as 6 foot + QB's. If you're under 6 feet just give up on life right now you won't accomplish anything

 

[Spin Doctor]

All RW discussions aside, you won't see growth and improvement behind this OL, unless a miracle occurs and they all of a sudden morph into an average OL.

I keep seeing this argument over the years, it's the O-Line! Yes, it is true that the O-Line does play a part, but so does Wilson consistently holding the ball longer than any QB in the NFL. So does Wilson walking himself into a sack, or big hit. Even if Wilson had a good O-Line I do not think they would look all that great with him behind center, it's just the nature of his game, and ability to improvise. That also comes at a cost, negative plays.

He'd look like he did in NC State and Wisconsin where he had the best passer rating in NCAA history.

Career 63% passer in the NFL and this season 70%. If ony he wasn't such a rough passer with these unbelieveable Olines and great WR's he has had in his career.

Holding onto the ball, taking sacks? I take that every time since he is the best playmaker I have ever seen from the QB position and had one of the best first 3 years of a career of all time. I take all of it.

I don't care about what the guy did in college, I care about what he does in the NFL. Collegiate performance has little bearing to how the player will perform in the NFL. That is why you have guys like Tom Brady, and Tony Romo who were nothing in college among the top 10 passers in the league, and why you have the Kellen Moore's, Colt McCoy;s, Tim Tebow and Colt Brennan's of the world riding the benches. In college players such as Tim Tebow, and Johnny Manziel made a career out of just winging it.

Russell Wilson also played behind the best line in all of college football. People raved about Johnny Manziel's improv skills, well no QB in the NFL or college has anything on what Wilson can do when he enters the scramble drill. Imagine those skills, coupled with that line at the collegiate level?

Essentially, what I'm trying to say is that Wilson is not a bad QB. He's top 10 albeit I think he is near the bottom of the top 10 at the moment. He's done remarkably well these three years. but that being said his style comes with some huge inconsistencies, and some limitations. Those inconsistencies and limitations are what he needs to overcome in order to become a top tier QB in this league.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Russell Wilson also played behind the best line in all of college football. People raved about Johnny Manziel's improv skills, well no QB in the NFL or college has anything on what Wilson can do when he enters the scramble drill. Imagine those skills, coupled with that line at the collegiate level?

Essentially, what I'm trying to say is that Wilson is not a bad QB. He's top 10 albeit I think he is near the bottom of the top 10 at the moment. He's done remarkably well these three years. but that being said his style comes with some huge inconsistencies, and some limitations. Those inconsistencies and limitations are what he needs to overcome in order to become a top tier QB in this league.

By the first paragraph alone, 'the best line in all of college football' contributed in no small measure to his top passer rating in NCAA. By that same reasoning, if he's blessed with the best, or let's say a top 10 NFL OL, his performance should improve markedly as well.

I still agree with most of your post. On plays that are designed to get rid of the ball quickly, he should do just that unless they are in crunch time. IMO, he will never be among the best at passing over the middle, and I think climbing the pocket might actually hinder him at times because of height limitations. Cable said as much in an interview. More room to move laterally equals more passing lanes for Russ. If Pete didn't have such a death grip on the ball, Russ would probably take more 'Breesesche' chances. Still, that looks so unnatural when Breese climbs the pocket and cocks his head back.

 

[hawknation2015]

Wilson's career QB rating of 98.2 is 2nd highest all-time. If he keeps going at that rate, he is just 147 passes away from being near the top of this list (minimum 1500 pass attempts to qualify as career leader):
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/l ... career.htm

He will have accomplished this while playing behind several ad hoc offensive lines, being pressured more than just about any other QB in the league, playing with mostly undrafted receivers, and showing no unwillingness to throw away the ball.

 

[brimsalabim]

IMO Wilson's next step needs to be taking ownership of his offense. Once he signed that contract this became his team and it's now more likely that Paul Allen would part with Bevel and maybe even Pete before jettisoning him. When a play comes in from the sideline that he knows is the wrong call then its up to him to make the right one. When a game plan is bad he needs to know when its time to get away from it. It goes back to that play call from the goal line in the super bowl. Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, they all shake off that play call and hand it to beast. Russell needs to know he is in charge now and it's up to him to make this offense flow.

 

[capncrunch]

IMO Wilson's next step needs to be taking ownership of his offense. Once he signed that contract this became his team and it's now more likely that Paul Allen would part with Bevel and maybe even Pete before jettisoning him. When a play comes in from the sideline that he knows is the wrong call then its up to him to make the right one. When a game plan is bad he needs to know when its time to get away from it. It goes back to that play call from the goal line in the super bowl. Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, they all shake off that play call and hand it to beast. Russell needs to know he is in charge now and it's up to him to make this offense flow.

Yes.

 

[Smellyman]

IMO Wilson's next step needs to be taking ownership of his offense. Once he signed that contract this became his team and it's now more likely that Paul Allen would part with Bevel and maybe even Pete before jettisoning him. When a play comes in from the sideline that he knows is the wrong call then its up to him to make the right one. When a game plan is bad he needs to know when its time to get away from it. It goes back to that play call from the goal line in the super bowl. Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, they all shake off that play call and hand it to beast. Russell needs to know he is in charge now and it's up to him to make this offense flow.

Agree there.

 

[seahawks08]

"He also has the scrambling ability where he can give defense fits, but the down side to that is, he can give WR's and Oline fits too, like not knowing where to create a pocket or where should a WR be when the QB is scrambling. In the long run, this is not very sustainable as the plays that are made become more plays that were not planned or meant to be.."
In order to properly take part in your discussion, we would have to buy in to the above. ^
I don't.

No you don't need to buy in to anything I say, I am using my thought process and knowledge of what I know to come up with the conclusion that it is not sustainable. I am okay if you have a different opinion on it, feel free to speak up, make it lively, this is all about sharing and thinking from different points of view. Nobody is winning or making money at somebody's costs. A public forum, where you get to know a lot of people, some of them personally, but for the love of the game, we as fans, have a place to express what we feel and think. Thats special. I truly respect your opinion, I want to hear it too.

 

[seahawks08]

Wilson is already elite, he just needs to improve pocket passing . Why do ppl always critisize this guy? he gets the job done and is a playmaker. lots ofteams dont even have a QB half as good as him. And hes still only played 3 seasons he will get better.

It is not negative criticism, it is constructive criticism. It is what fans do, because most if not all love him, he is special, he is great, everyone has room for improvement. There are talk shows where the media discuss stuff where we the fans have very little input, this is a forum where everyone for the love of the game have opinions, ideas, thoughts and feelings.. I respect that, its what makes this a great place to come hang out. We know he has the winningness in him, and now he is getting paid like one, its ok for fans to have more and more expectations. I don't think he cares one bit on what we say or not say in this forum. It is a great discussion to be had and one where everyone has their own observations and thought process. Keep the discussion going, its fun to read stuff and hear different things.

 

[SeahawksFanForever]

I don't have much to add to conversation after reading a few great posts in this conversation.

One thing I will say is, teams are going to try to keep him in the pocket so Bevell needs to call running plays, quick passes, move the pocket, etc. He isn't doing that. He is calling plays like the Seahawks have a great Oline and Wilson is Rodgers or Brady. Playing to Wilson's strength is the key but I am not sure if we are doing that. Sean Payton was very creative with Drew Brees and it helped Brees grow as a QB. I'm afraid that all other issues around Wilson might hinder his growth because his ceiling is really high.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The next step in Russell's growth into an elite QB is to stop being so tentative.

I haven't seen any talent or skill drop this year with Russell, but I have seen too much tentative play. He's tentative with throws and he's tentative with not keeping the ball on the read too often.

The QB should keep the ball 50% of the time on read option plays, that's the only way that scheme works. If the D knows he's going to hand it off to Marshawn 80% of the time, then that's the way they're going to go with the play..........which is why it hasn't been as successful for us this year.

 

[chris98251]

The next step in Russells growth is for the OC and Pete to trust him to adjust and make calls, too many times I think he doesn't push back or ask for more control at this point. Time to let him be a veteran and take the rookie gloves off. If thye call a play and the defernse is aligned to counter it, let him audible, if he sees a substitution that we can make a play on, let him audible.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

The next step in Russells growth is for the OC and Pete to trust him to adjust and make calls, too many times I think he doesn't push back or ask for more control at this point. Time to let him be a veteran and take the rookie gloves off. If thye call a play and the defernse is aligned to counter it, let him audible, if he sees a substitution that we can make a play on, let him audible.

If he doesn't have these options already, I agree 100%.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The next step in Russells growth is for the OC and Pete to trust him to adjust and make calls, too many times I think he doesn't push back or ask for more control at this point. Time to let him be a veteran and take the rookie gloves off. If thye call a play and the defernse is aligned to counter it, let him audible, if he sees a substitution that we can make a play on, let him audible.

What makes you think Russell doesn't have the power to make adjustments?

I've never heard otherwise.

Now SHOULD Russell make line change calls and go off script when he sees something the D is doing? Yes, because that was my point above, too tentative and afraid to make mistakes is what I see.

 

[IndyHawk]

I like what Spin and Tical have posted and I feel pretty much the same as they do.I will add that I feel maybe the best thing for RW is to have a new OC.I don't hate DB but I think someone with new ideas who is a little more aggressive in the passing calls would do wonders for RW and the offense.I say this with the DB of the Super Bowl win in mind.Since that game what happened to the dude?Bubble screens up the ass and what nots.

 

[LymonHawk]

It might help if he grew a pair... :twisted: