RW growth: The next phase

[scutterhawk]

Was hearing comparisons between elite QBs and the ones that are aspiring to be. I think they were talking about Rodgers, Manning, Brady. So RW has many qualities from being a great team mate, leader, 1-0 and all of that which are very positive. He also has the scrambling ability where he can give defense fits, but the down side to that is, he can give WR's and Oline fits too, like not knowing where to create a pocket or where should a WR be when the QB is scrambling. In the long run, this is not very sustainable as the plays that are made become more plays that were not planned or meant to be. The more we go that direction, the more unpredictable it will be for us and for the opposing team, which puts us in a situation of slow starts and all of that. Eventually individual talent, and resolve with mental grit wins us games as it progresses. My intent on opening this thread is , what is the next chapter for RW for growing into the next level. How can he be the QB who improves everyone around him in the offense. Instead of taking his feet and running. When can he become a guy, where even an average WR, or a WR with talent, both excel around him. I want to purely focus on RW and not any other factors like Bevell, OC and stuff like that.

Here is some that come to my mind, I don't know if he needs to improve in all of this, but it is an interesting discussion to have.

1. Reading the defense
2. Pre snap adjustments
3. Throwing accuracy
4. Throwing in tight windows
5. Staying in pocket and letting the play develop
6. Red zone efficiency
7. Trusting his receivers
8. Clock management
9. Kill the Read option, opposing teams game planning better
10. Protecting the ball

Zorn/Kreig and HOF Largent found time after practices to meld.
Wilson needs to make the same connections with his all stars, but at he same time, the O-Line needs to tighten up on protection.

 

[scutterhawk]

Russell Wilson is a good player, and playmaker but he is rough as a passer. I've noticed that his ball placement is not always there, especially on certain routes. Of course, we all know that he is not very good at managing the pocket. Last game, two of the sacks could be directly attributed to Wilson himself. The first one was him backpedaling, and then realizing "oh maybe I should step up into the pocket". This led to Wilson running himself right into a defender. If this were somebody such as Brady, or Manning it would've been a non-issue. They would've stepped up in the pocket and continued to survey the field. The second sack that can be directly attributed to him was when he actually had a good pocket. He's sitting in the pocket, and he decides to try to take off up the middle of the field. The end result is a sack, and loss of yardage.

The line is bad this year, but Wilson needs to help them out more. I contend that even if Wilson had a good line, he would still be taking a lot of sacks due to his play style. I hope that he can find a balance similar to what Ben Roethlisberger did. Yes, he can extend the play, but he also has an internal timer in his head that tells him "okay now it's time to get rid of the ball" That is not something I see with Wilson.

I also think he needs to do better recognizing the blitz. He can beat free rushers with his legs, however many times they also result in a negative play. I remember this is something that Jon Gruden criticized him on during his sit down with him before draft day. I still see Wilson struggling with the very same things that Gruden mentioned, the playcalling doesn't help either. I do not know how much leeway he has to change the play, but running a slow developing play action into a blitz does nothing to help Wilson.

The last thing I want to mention is hesitation to throw to receivers unless they are open by two steps. This does nothing for our offense, I'm not asking him to do the famous Rex Grossman F IT I'M GOING DEEP, and promptly throw it into triple coverage. I just want him to take advantage of the windows that are there. I see that Wilson identifies many of our open receivers, it's just a question of "are they open enough for him".

If Wilson masters the things I mention above he will be on a level that is on par with Rodgers in my opinion. I also do not think that Wilson is getting the tutelage that he needs from our QB coach, Bevell, and Carroll. I'm also questioning whether Carroll, and Bevell are trying to pound a square peg in a round hole with the way the offense is structured. I do not think the structure of this offense is conducive to Wilson's growth as a passer.

As to staying in a viable pocket: On regular TV you can't see the recievers, so the play could've been killed by nobody getting open downfield, and not because he ran out of a viable pocket. Without seeing the receivers you have no idea what really happens on a play.

He had a very nice pocket, nobody was even in the general vicinity of Wilson. He should've hung in the pocket instead of took off. That sack was 100 percent on Wilson, even without seeing the receivers that play was a big mistake. He didn't have a clear hole to run through, despite having good protection he immediately took off with the ball.

I think the biggest thing Wilson needs to master is pre-snap adjustments as others have said. I think this is the biggest weakness in his game at the moment. I'm seeing far too many mismatches such as Graham being one on one with with defensive ends, I'm seeing far too many guys coming of the edge free. It's up to Wilson to identify where the rushers are coming from, and change the protection, then decide which would be the best place to go with the ball. It's up to Wilson to identify the mismatches and go with it. I've seen a few instances of Graham going against a linebacker one on one, that kind of matchup is not favorable for the opposing defense. Wilson needs to learn how to recognize that.

WOW!, you're such an expert, and Wilson is a dummy. :177692:

 

[Spin Doctor]

Russell Wilson is a good player, and playmaker but he is rough as a passer. I've noticed that his ball placement is not always there, especially on certain routes. Of course, we all know that he is not very good at managing the pocket. Last game, two of the sacks could be directly attributed to Wilson himself. The first one was him backpedaling, and then realizing "oh maybe I should step up into the pocket". This led to Wilson running himself right into a defender. If this were somebody such as Brady, or Manning it would've been a non-issue. They would've stepped up in the pocket and continued to survey the field. The second sack that can be directly attributed to him was when he actually had a good pocket. He's sitting in the pocket, and he decides to try to take off up the middle of the field. The end result is a sack, and loss of yardage.

The line is bad this year, but Wilson needs to help them out more. I contend that even if Wilson had a good line, he would still be taking a lot of sacks due to his play style. I hope that he can find a balance similar to what Ben Roethlisberger did. Yes, he can extend the play, but he also has an internal timer in his head that tells him "okay now it's time to get rid of the ball" That is not something I see with Wilson.

I also think he needs to do better recognizing the blitz. He can beat free rushers with his legs, however many times they also result in a negative play. I remember this is something that Jon Gruden criticized him on during his sit down with him before draft day. I still see Wilson struggling with the very same things that Gruden mentioned, the playcalling doesn't help either. I do not know how much leeway he has to change the play, but running a slow developing play action into a blitz does nothing to help Wilson.

The last thing I want to mention is hesitation to throw to receivers unless they are open by two steps. This does nothing for our offense, I'm not asking him to do the famous Rex Grossman F IT I'M GOING DEEP, and promptly throw it into triple coverage. I just want him to take advantage of the windows that are there. I see that Wilson identifies many of our open receivers, it's just a question of "are they open enough for him".

If Wilson masters the things I mention above he will be on a level that is on par with Rodgers in my opinion. I also do not think that Wilson is getting the tutelage that he needs from our QB coach, Bevell, and Carroll. I'm also questioning whether Carroll, and Bevell are trying to pound a square peg in a round hole with the way the offense is structured. I do not think the structure of this offense is conducive to Wilson's growth as a passer.

As to staying in a viable pocket: On regular TV you can't see the recievers, so the play could've been killed by nobody getting open downfield, and not because he ran out of a viable pocket. Without seeing the receivers you have no idea what really happens on a play.

He had a very nice pocket, nobody was even in the general vicinity of Wilson. He should've hung in the pocket instead of took off. That sack was 100 percent on Wilson, even without seeing the receivers that play was a big mistake. He didn't have a clear hole to run through, despite having good protection he immediately took off with the ball.

I think the biggest thing Wilson needs to master is pre-snap adjustments as others have said. I think this is the biggest weakness in his game at the moment. I'm seeing far too many mismatches such as Graham being one on one with with defensive ends, I'm seeing far too many guys coming of the edge free. It's up to Wilson to identify where the rushers are coming from, and change the protection, then decide which would be the best place to go with the ball. It's up to Wilson to identify the mismatches and go with it. I've seen a few instances of Graham going against a linebacker one on one, that kind of matchup is not favorable for the opposing defense. Wilson needs to learn how to recognize that.

WOW!, you're such an expert, and Wilson is a dummy. :177692:

Sigh, why must I be berated whenever I say something about Russell Wilson. This is a flaw in his game, and he is certainly a better QB than I ever was, or would ever hope to be. That being said, that doesn't mean that he is infallible as a Quarterback. I think I made a legitimate point here about where Wilson is lacking as a player. Other people have said it, in this thread as well as myself. Sure, Bevell calls the plays, but it is up to Wilson to make the adjustments at the LOS, and he is also responsible for calling the protection as well. This is not an area that I have been overly impressed with Wilson.

 

[IndyHawk]

Was hearing comparisons between elite QBs and the ones that are aspiring to be. I think they were talking about Rodgers, Manning, Brady. So RW has many qualities from being a great team mate, leader, 1-0 and all of that which are very positive. He also has the scrambling ability where he can give defense fits, but the down side to that is, he can give WR's and Oline fits too, like not knowing where to create a pocket or where should a WR be when the QB is scrambling. In the long run, this is not very sustainable as the plays that are made become more plays that were not planned or meant to be. The more we go that direction, the more unpredictable it will be for us and for the opposing team, which puts us in a situation of slow starts and all of that. Eventually individual talent, and resolve with mental grit wins us games as it progresses. My intent on opening this thread is , what is the next chapter for RW for growing into the next level. How can he be the QB who improves everyone around him in the offense. Instead of taking his feet and running. When can he become a guy, where even an average WR, or a WR with talent, both excel around him. I want to purely focus on RW and not any other factors like Bevell, OC and stuff like that.

Here is some that come to my mind, I don't know if he needs to improve in all of this, but it is an interesting discussion to have.

1. Reading the defense
2. Pre snap adjustments
3. Throwing accuracy
4. Throwing in tight windows
5. Staying in pocket and letting the play develop
6. Red zone efficiency
7. Trusting his receivers
8. Clock management
9. Kill the Read option, opposing teams game planning better
10. Protecting the ball

Zorn/Kreig and HOF Largent found time after practices to meld.
Wilson needs to make the same connections with his all stars, but at he same time, the O-Line needs to tighten up on protection.

Where does Jim Zorn belong in here?Wilson is way better by far.I have said RW has flaws but Jim Zorn?Man..

 

[theincrediblesok]

Wilson's O-line in Wisconsin was one of the biggest, I've never heard them say it was the best O-line during that time, wasn't it Alabama that got all that recognition?

Wilson made that O-line looked better than it was, if that O-line was great then how come from 2009 - 2013, other QBs before and after Wilson couldn't get more than 22 TD or even anything over 2750 yards in a season?

First year making the line protection calls full time, only in 3 games, with 2 players that was never an O-lineman before. So how perfect is he suppose to be at it?

My problem is that some folks on here believe Wilson is to blame for everything from the offense, slow start, offensive line issues, receiving, might as well throw running game in there as well, etc, etc. It seems that no matter what he does or doesn't do he gets criticize even for some things he can't control. Wilson makes mistakes that is indisputable, but what about other players on offense? How about receivers dropping catchable balls? What about o-lineman getting beaten badly and allowing pressure towards Wilson. Playcalling that get too cute and too predictable? This system is about the run game, and the system is setup for Lynch. This is not a Wilson offense yet, it's transitioning.

I will agree that Wilson needs to grow more as a QB and that the coaching staff could really be hindering his development, as they slowly give him new responsibility every year. Wilson was never given the key to the car, he had to ride shotgun wtih Marshawn and having the Defense in the back seat. Now that Lynch is hurt, Wilson needs to drive the guys home to the Superbowl.

 

[Fade]

The offense must play with better tempo, and urgency to start the game. In terms of Wilson specifically he just needs to trust his eyes, and let it go. To much double clutching, and indecisiveness.

If I were calling plays for him, I would roll, boot, sprint, keep, get him on the move early in the game, Bevell seems to think that zone read is the only play they have that can get Wilson on the move. Russell really seems to settle down in the pocket after he makes a couple throws on the run. It's almost like he is a basketball player and he has to get a couple lay-ups to get his rhythm before shooting 3's.

I look forward to Russell building a rapport w/Jimmy Graham & Tyler Lockett. This combined with the O-Line improving week by week. The Seahawks will be the hottest team in the league heading into the playoffs.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

I don't care about what the guy did in college, I care about what he does in the NFL. Collegiate performance has little bearing to how the player will perform in the NFL. That is why you have guys like Tom Brady, and Tony Romo who were nothing in college among the top 10 passers in the league, and why you have the Kellen Moore's, Colt McCoy;s, Tim Tebow and Colt Brennan's of the world riding the benches. In college players such as Tim Tebow, and Johnny Manziel made a career out of just winging it.

Russell Wilson also played behind the best line in all of college football. ......

And can you name any 2011 Badger O linemen who was a high pick or currently plays in the NFL?
Can you name any 2011 Badger RB that has produced in the NFL?
The Badger O line was behemoth and had consistency playing together BUT Wilson was the biggest reason that 2011 Badger team succeeded.
Also your comment that 'collegiate football performance has little bearing in the NFL' is ignorant and flawed. How does this even support your own opinions on Andrew Luck's reputation or NFL prospects for that matter?

 

[Russ Willstrong]

The most underrated aspect of the offensive game is the chemistry of the O line.
Wilson has been productive behind patchwork lines while also being handicapped by an offensive scheme that passes fewer than any team. Often when they pass it is on a clear passing situation aka 3rd and long or 4th qrtr deficit. Those are not the training wheels you'd ideally have for any young quarterback.

 

[HuskerHawk]

Not to mention RW was regarded as a significantly better prospect than any of those guys Spin mentioned with the exception of maybe McCoy. Russ showed everything you want in a NFL quarterback in college, grading tops in pretty much everything but one area. Though some may say otherwise, he has also pretty much fulfilled and exceeded those expectations since moving up with the big boys.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

I don't care about what the guy did in college, I care about what he does in the NFL. Collegiate performance has little bearing to how the player will perform in the NFL. That is why you have guys like Tom Brady, and Tony Romo who were nothing in college among the top 10 passers in the league, and why you have the Kellen Moore's, Colt McCoy;s, Tim Tebow and Colt Brennan's of the world riding the benches. In college players such as Tim Tebow, and Johnny Manziel made a career out of just winging it.

Russell Wilson also played behind the best line in all of college football. ......

And can you name any 2011 Badger O linemen who was a high pick or currently plays in the NFL?
Can you name any 2011 Badger RB that has produced in the NFL?
How about a receiver from the 2011 Wisconsin team that is a starter or producing in the NFL?
How about anyone who has succeeded anywhere else including kicker or coach?

Yes the Badger O line was behemoth and had consistency playing together BUT Wilson was the biggest reason that 2011 Badger team succeeded.
Also your comment that 'collegiate football performance has little bearing in the NFL' is ignorant and flawed. How does this even support your own opinions on Andrew Luck's reputation or NFL prospects for that matter?