Russell Wilson is Elite | I'm Putting the Nail in the Coffin

[Seymour]

28 more TD's in the 2nd half of games for Russell's career vs 1st half isn't starting slow and inconsistent? That's an ENTIRE year of TD's.

If you guys don't see that it takes Russell a while to get into rhythm and tempo and he's MUCH better in the 2nd half especially the 4th quarter, then I don't know what to say. You're not watching the same QB.

1) Do you "admit" we are a run first team?

2) Would it be reasonable to suggest that we throw more if we get behind or are ineffective running?

3) Would it be reasonable to say that the more you throw, the more TD's you will get as a QB?

Russ had problems with slow starts last season, this year folks like you are hyper analyzing every throw and translating that he is still doing that when the numbers say he is not.

More TD's could just as easily be explained by our offensive philosophy to run first and to throw when you have to. "You" only have to in the 2nd half for the most part.

Your statement proves absolutely nothing.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

28 more TD's in the 2nd half of games for Russell's career vs 1st half isn't starting slow and inconsistent? That's an ENTIRE year of TD's.

If you guys don't see that it takes Russell a while to get into rhythm and tempo and he's MUCH better in the 2nd half especially the 4th quarter, then I don't know what to say. You're not watching the same QB.

1) Do you "admit" we are a run first team?

2) Would it be reasonable to suggest that we throw more if we get behind or are ineffective running?

3) Would it be reasonable to say that the more you throw, the more TD's you will get as a QB?

Russ had problems with slow starts last season, this year folks like you are hyper analyzing every throw and translating that he is still doing that when the numbers say he is not.

More TD's could just as easily be explained by our offensive philosophy to run first and to throw when you have to. "You" only have to in the 2nd half for the most part.

Your statement proves absolutely nothing.

I'll admit we're a start slow team in general, in years we prioritized the run, and years we didn't have the personnel to do it and had to pass way more. The stats show the same, start slow.

So yeah, we can parse out whether that's offensive philosophy, or Russell. Probably somewhere in the middle.

btw, this is not news to anyone on the team or in the media. Pete's been asked the "why does Russell and the offense start so slow all the time" question since he arrived here.......and Russell self admittedly compares himself to a basketball player that just has to keep taking shots to get into rhythm.

 

[mrt144]

2013
1st half 15 TD, Rate 106.3
2nd half 14 TD, Rate 95.5

2014
1st half 11 TD, rate 91.2
2nd half 14 TD, RATE 95.3

2015
1ST HALF 16 TD, RATE 101.4
2ND HALF 22 TD, RATE 111.4

2016
1ST HALF 12 TD, RATE 96.8
2ND HALF 13 TD, RATE 88.7

2017
1ST HALF 8 TD, RATE 78
2ND HALF 26 TD, RATE 112

2018
1ST HALF 12 TD, RATE 119
2ND HALF 13 TD, RATE 105

So pretty much only 2017 but yeah he has slow starts all the time right...

28 more TD's in the 2nd half of games for Russell's career vs 1st half isn't starting slow and inconsistent? That's an ENTIRE year of TD's.

If you guys don't see that it takes Russell a while to get into rhythm and tempo and he's MUCH better in the 2nd half especially the 4th quarter, then I don't know what to say. You're not watching the same QB.

Thats an average of 4 per year? And only in 2 did he go above that average? I don't know what to tell you about 2017 man.

 

[Seymour]

I'll admit we're a start slow team in general, in years we prioritized the run, and years we didn't have the personnel to do it and had to pass way more. The stats show the same, start slow.

So yeah, we can parse out whether that's offensive philosophy, or Russell. Probably somewhere in the middle.

btw, this is not news to anyone on the team or in the media. Pete's been asked the "why does Russell and the offense start so slow all the time" question since he arrived here.......and Russell self admittedly compares himself to a basketball player that just has to keep taking shots to get into rhythm.

And my point is that was last year for the most part, and any misses this year is "here we go again" when overall the problem does not exist beyond the normal QB. Other QB's do the same thing....see the Farve comparison just for starters.

Rodgers and Wilson have similar numbers overall. Who do you take in the playoffs when Russ is a proven finisher and clutch player, and Rodgers has shown a lack of being a strong finisher?

Rodgers 19 GWD (game winning drives) in 13 years.

Wilson 22 GWD in 7 years.

Not even close!! :141847_bnono:

 

[rcaido]

I'll admit we're a start slow team in general, in years we prioritized the run, and years we didn't have the personnel to do it and had to pass way more. The stats show the same, start slow.

So yeah, we can parse out whether that's offensive philosophy, or Russell. Probably somewhere in the middle.

btw, this is not news to anyone on the team or in the media. Pete's been asked the "why does Russell and the offense start so slow all the time" question since he arrived here.......and Russell self admittedly compares himself to a basketball player that just has to keep taking shots to get into rhythm.

And my point is that was last year for the most part, and any misses this year is "here we go again" when overall the problem does not exist beyond the normal QB. Other QB's do the same thing....see the Farve comparison just for starters.

Rodgers and Wilson have similar numbers overall. Who do you take in the playoffs when Russ is a proven finisher and clutch player, and Rodgers has shown a lack of being a strong finisher?

Rodgers 19 GWD (game winning drives) in 13 years.

Wilson 22 GWD in 7 years.

Not even close!! :141847_bnono:

NOt to mention 0-37 when losing by more the 1point against a winning team in the 4th quarter. If you count playoffs 0-44. Yikes

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Thats an average of 4 per year? And only in 2 did he go above that average? I don't know what to tell you about 2017 man.

Considering most of our losses are less than 7 pts, those four TD's per year are games we possibly could have won if not for slow starts.

Again, this isn't my narrative, Pete's and everyone else has been talking about it his entire tenure. Not sure why you guys are arguing with me over Russell and the offense always starting slow.

If you think he more then makes up for it with clutch 2nd half performances, and THAT'S what make him elite? I'll buy that, even if I'm not ready to say it just yet.

I said at the very beginning of this thread that I can see both sides, so I'm fine with others saying Russell's elite. He certainly was on Sunday.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

I'll admit we're a start slow team in general, in years we prioritized the run, and years we didn't have the personnel to do it and had to pass way more. The stats show the same, start slow.

So yeah, we can parse out whether that's offensive philosophy, or Russell. Probably somewhere in the middle.

btw, this is not news to anyone on the team or in the media. Pete's been asked the "why does Russell and the offense start so slow all the time" question since he arrived here.......and Russell self admittedly compares himself to a basketball player that just has to keep taking shots to get into rhythm.

And my point is that was last year for the most part, and any misses this year is "here we go again" when overall the problem does not exist beyond the normal QB. Other QB's do the same thing....see the Farve comparison just for starters.

Rodgers and Wilson have similar numbers overall. Who do you take in the playoffs when Russ is a proven finisher and clutch player, and Rodgers has shown a lack of being a strong finisher?

Rodgers 19 GWD (game winning drives) in 13 years.

Wilson 22 GWD in 7 years.

Not even close!! :141847_bnono:

Again. Your comparisons are ALL first ballot HOFers, Elite QBs. I don't know what to tell you. If the class of QBs he's compared to is Elite, that says something. If he was throwing fewer TDs in the second half than the first half like Tom Brady does (career 1h 276 2h 231), you would say he's consistently inconsistent.

 

[Tical21]

I bet nearly 100 percent of players that go against him would say that Russ is a flat out baller. Players and coaches are who I would trust over fans. They are the ones who see him on the field and have to game plan for him.

I am not certain this is correct. With the amount of people that Carolina kept in the box all game, it was clear who they thought the flat out baller was.

Sgt is right. I don't think there is a single person on this board that hasn't admitted Russ is a good quarterback.

But you should be allowed to believe he is a good quarterback and also criticize parts of his game. Evidently not around these parts.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Fair enough, prove to me that NFL Players don't see him as a top tier QB. That being said, I've beaten this dead horse enough. You will never think he's that great, and that's fine. We will never agree on Russ, and that's fine, it's a message board. I've already been told I bring nothing to the board and/or Straw Man arguments to this board so not sure why I bother. Other than I like talking football.

Have a great day.

 

[scutterhawk]

Honest question: Why does it matter if a guy starts slow sometimes if he finishes better than most who have ever played the game? Shouldn't Wins and 4th quarter and OT numbers be the true measurement of how great a QB is? In addition to his leadership and his ability to be huge in the clutch??

Because the poor starts consistently put your team in a hole over and over creating scenarios where you have to be perfect in 2nd halves to win close games. Like we had to be in Carolina.

Yes Russell is clutch, but Russell also has games like Denver, Chicago, Chargers and Rams this year where he makes critical mistakes that contributed to us losing.

You're telling me if he could come out and get going quicker that wouldn't give us a bigger margin for error in the 2nd halves of those games being ahead by 7-10 pts instead of seemingly always being behind?

Consistency, That's "elite" to me. Guys like Brady and Brees are elite because they've done it year after year, game after game, and quarter after quarter.

Russell? Not there yet for me. For you? That's cool.

You sure like skirting around the truth a LOT, NOT sayin' that you're lying, but not including all the facts either.
Games 1 & 2 were played without the Run game up and functioning until week 3 + Wilson, Solari & Schottenheimer not having everything anywhere close to meshing YET.
You perposely omited Rodgers from that list, what?, now that RW outshone him in their last meeting, you leave him out of the conversation for arguements sake?

And you don't need for me to remind you that BOTH Brady & Breese have had some really bummer games over their careers too, as ALL Quarterbacks big or small, do.
You don't want to acknowledge that RW is ELITE, that's okie-dokie by me, but facts are still facts, HE IS.
I believe that his 4th quarter combacks are best in the League...Never mind the silly arguement that he's at fault for the slow starts over the last couple years, Wilson plays AS HE'S INSTRUCTED.
Without Cabevil running shit into the ground, Wilson's numbers are getting better.
No help from the Run game last season & he still put up some damned good numbers.
O course I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know, but just omiting facts here & there to support your position ain't right either.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Fair enough, prove to me that NFL Players don't see him as a top tier QB. That being said, I've beaten this dead horse enough. You will never think he's that great, and that's fine. Have a great day.

There in lies the rub..........."top tier" "elite"

These are vague subjective words and terms open to our own interpretations of what the word means. Of course everyone in the league thinks Russell's a "top tier" QB. Does that mean they think he's top 3? top 5? top 10? Where does the "elite" cutoff end?

Most leaguewide lists have Russell somewhere around 5-10. Is that elite? For some yes, for some no.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He's one of the best QB's in football, I don't give a rats butt what you call him. Geezus man, what is with the fascination with a title. He's a damn good QB, and one of the best finishers in the HISTORY of the game. Period.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Geezus man, what is with the fascination with a title.

Cause that's the question? I didn't start the thread, why you mad at me.

Yes, Russell is one of the best QB's in the league. There you have it;

/ thread.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Not mad at anyone, just tired of pointing out the obvious. It's best I just stop talking about Russ. It's useless.
We just won a massive game, sure doesn't feel like it on this board. Sorry man, tired and grumpy today.
Go Hawks

 

[scutterhawk]

If elite QBs find ways to consistently lead their team to wins, what explains Brees' lifetime W-L record of .585? It could easily be argued that he cannot put a team on his back and win. He's definitely not elite.

If you say that the surrounding cast wasn't good enough (bad defense, injuries, etc.), then the obvious conclusion is that no QB can overcome all challenges, no matter how good/elite; he's just one player on a team, albeit an important part.

If Russ is so inconsistent, why are his completion percentages so high? Why is his TD/Int ratio so good? Why is he so efficient? Why does his clutch attitude lead to so many wins?

I agree that he isn't as sharp when the game starts, but he finishes better than nearly every QB in the league in order to have similar or better bottom line stats.

So, maybe what we need to do is break down his play into specific areas and judge each by level of excellence or weakness:
-against he blitz
-short throws
-medium throws
-long throws
-rushing
-with/without a running game
-early in the game
-with less that 2 minutes to play (in half/game)
-with a lead
-when behind
-"clutch"

If he has times of inconsistency in some areas, he is top of the field in others. That means he is the best (elite) in that area. Maybe that's where we should take this conversation.

YEP ^ I'm right there witchya :2thumbs:

 

[Seymour]

Geezus man, what is with the fascination with a title.

Cause that's the question? I didn't start the thread, why you mad at me.

Yes, Russell is one of the best QB's in the league. There you have it;

/ thread.

One of the best 5?

One of the best 7?

Or...one of the best 10?

:180670:

 

[chris98251]

Well Hass got us to a Super Bowl he has to be Elite also ................................................



These last few weeks remind me of all the Hass hating threads we had.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

If elite QBs find ways to consistently lead their team to wins, what explains Brees' lifetime W-L record of .585? It could easily be argued that he cannot put a team on his back and win. He's definitely not elite.

If you say that the surrounding cast wasn't good enough (bad defense, injuries, etc.), then the obvious conclusion is that no QB can overcome all challenges, no matter how good/elite; he's just one player on a team, albeit an important part.

If Russ is so inconsistent, why are his completion percentages so high? Why is his TD/Int ratio so good? Why is he so efficient? Why does his clutch attitude lead to so many wins?

I agree that he isn't as sharp when the game starts, but he finishes better than nearly every QB in the league in order to have similar or better bottom line stats.

So, maybe what we need to do is break down his play into specific areas and judge each by level of excellence or weakness:
-against he blitz
-short throws
-medium throws
-long throws
-rushing
-with/without a running game
-early in the game
-with less that 2 minutes to play (in half/game)
-with a lead
-when behind
-"clutch"

If he has times of inconsistency in some areas, he is top of the field in others. That means he is the best (elite) in that area. Maybe that's where we should take this conversation.

YEP ^ I'm right there witchya :2thumbs:

YEP ^#me2 :2thumbs: :2thumbs:

 

[scutterhawk]

Fair enough, prove to me that NFL Players don't see him as a top tier QB. That being said, I've beaten this dead horse enough. You will never think he's that great, and that's fine. Have a great day.

There in lies the rub..........."top tier" "elite"

These are vague subjective words and terms open to our own interpretations of what the word means. Of course everyone in the league thinks Russell's a "top tier" QB. Does that mean they think he's top 3? top 5? top 10? Where does the "elite" cutoff end?

Most leaguewide lists have Russell somewhere around 5-10. Is that elite? For some yes, for some no.

As a SGT., you should get the "Time In Grade" gig :lol:
If some folks are finding it difficult to bracket Wilson for his successes, they need only to look up his statistics, his Wins vs Losses, his TD's versus Interceptions, for the TIME THAT HE'S BEEN IN THE LEAGUE, and compare them to other ELITE Quarterbacks for their first 6 years or so, and voila, there you have it.
His detractors will never admit that they're wrong.

 

[hgwellz12]

...Russ makes a gutsy 4th and 3 TD and people are saying it's stupid. Favre makes a gutsy throw and people worship him like he's a god.
Why is it different for Russ when he does something that people call "stupid" but when Favre or Rodgers or any other good QB does it etc. It's just Favre being Favre????

Wrangler jeans.
& I'm only partially joking.