Russell Wilson is Elite | I'm Putting the Nail in the Coffin

[Seymour]

The reality is that some portion of our fanbase just flat out dislikes the guy and will never give him credit no matter how well he plays. Some of these arguments are just absolutely ridiculous: "He passed up an open 15 yard pass for a less open 35 yard TD pass (that btw we've all seen him make time and again), therefore he doesn't understand his progressions and is not elite." Then when he takes the wide open checkdown to avoid risking in interception throwing to a covered WR, it's about how he's a game manager who's unwilling to take shots when his team needs him.

Basically, people are expecting him to replicate last year's performance against Houston every single game, or else he's not elite.

This is where im at too.

Its pointless going round and round knowing the goalposts move with every post. Its poor from some and exasperating to the others who sift through it.

The complaints about the 4th and 3 throw have done it. Brady does that and he gets another statue.

I don't know one person on this board that "flat out dislikes Russell and never gives him credit no matter how well he plays."

Can you two point me in the direction of these imaginary posters?

For starters....
RGATES.....Just calling Hassellbeck far superior to Wilson should be enough evidence. There are several others also.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The reality is that some portion of our fanbase just flat out dislikes the guy and will never give him credit no matter how well he plays. Some of these arguments are just absolutely ridiculous: "He passed up an open 15 yard pass for a less open 35 yard TD pass (that btw we've all seen him make time and again), therefore he doesn't understand his progressions and is not elite." Then when he takes the wide open checkdown to avoid risking in interception throwing to a covered WR, it's about how he's a game manager who's unwilling to take shots when his team needs him.

Basically, people are expecting him to replicate last year's performance against Houston every single game, or else he's not elite.

This is where im at too.

Its pointless going round and round knowing the goalposts move with every post. Its poor from some and exasperating to the others who sift through it.

The complaints about the 4th and 3 throw have done it. Brady does that and he gets another statue.

I don't know one person on this board that "flat out dislikes Russell and never gives him credit no matter how well he plays."

Can you two point me in the direction of these imaginary posters?

Well William Cooper and nseahawks off the top of my head. Is that good enough for you?

Ill point you in the ditection of a handful of people who continue to change the narrative while waiting to jump on the next loss? Will that suffice as well?

Or.. you can apologize for a condescending and confrontational post that was also inaccurate while trying to righteously snare someones hyperbole

Nope. I was pointing the strawman argument that you agreed with for justifying a ridiculous comment that fans on this board "flat out dislike Russell and never give him credit."

Doesn't exist on here. 100% of posters on here's opinion of Russell varies from generally like to love. There's no "flat out dislike." Again, feel free to quote me a poster who flat out hates Russell.

Now are some of us more critical of Russell? Sure, definitely a broad spectrum of fans that are harder on Russell than others.

But nope, not gonna let this comment pass without pointing out it's absurdity. It's a terrible strawman, one of the worst actually.

 

[Uncle Si]

I gave you two examples and it took 3 seconds so youre wrong.

And you double down by doing the same trick on here others do.

Also.. look up strawman so you know what it means before using it again.

 

[rcaido]

This is where im at too.

Its pointless going round and round knowing the goalposts move with every post. Its poor from some and exasperating to the others who sift through it.

The complaints about the 4th and 3 throw have done it. Brady does that and he gets another statue.

I don't know one person on this board that "flat out dislikes Russell and never gives him credit no matter how well he plays."

Can you two point me in the direction of these imaginary posters?

Well William Cooper and nseahawks off the top of my head. Is that good enough for you?

Ill point you in the ditection of a handful of people who continue to change the narrative while waiting to jump on the next loss? Will that suffice as well?

Or.. you can apologize for a condescending and confrontational post that was also inaccurate while trying to righteously snare someones hyperbole

Nope. I was pointing the strawman argument that you agreed with for justifying a ridiculous comment that fans on this board "flat out dislike Russell and never give him credit."

Doesn't exist on here. 100% of posters on here's opinion of Russell varies from generally like to love. There's no "flat out dislike." Again, feel free to quote me a poster who flat out hates Russell.

Now are some of us more critical of Russell? Sure, definitely a broad spectrum of fans that are harder on Russell than others.

But nope, not gonna let this comment pass without pointing out it's absurdity. It's a terrible strawman, one of the worst actually.

Have you been to the gameday forum? The hate on Wilson is pretty evident there...i dont go there anymore until after the game. Ruins any kind of enjoyment i have during game day.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I gave you two examples and it took 3 seconds so youre wrong.

And you double down by doing the same trick on here others do.

Also.. look up strawman so you know what it means before using it again.

I have a college degree and three financial degrees, I'm pretty sure I know what a strawman argument is. If you wanna use the word hyperbole, that works too.

Either way, it was an exaggerated to flat out inaccurate statement in order to make a really poor point about some imaginary general sentiment towards Russell that doesn't exist on this forum. Everyone on here likes to loves Russell to varying degrees. No one hates or dislikes him.

Can we get back to beating this dead horse argument now Si?

 

[ivotuk]

In 2017, Russell Wilson set a new NFL Record with 19 fourth quarter Touchdowns.

He was responsible for almost all of the scoring, and because of a porous defense and a non-existent running game, had to constantly bring this team back in the fourth quarter.

Still, if we would have had a decent kicker, we may very well have made the playoffs.

What non-elite QB could possibly do that?

Answer: nobody.

Actually, the Seahawks had a top-half defense that was considerably higher than that for most of the year, and Russ was ranked below just about everybody else listed in this discussion in every other category besides touchdowns.

So what's more important? Stats? Or Touchdowns?

TV talkers always rate defenses by yards allowed, which is stupid. The only rating for defenses that matters is points allowed.

 

[Seymour]

I gave you two examples and it took 3 seconds so youre wrong.

And you double down by doing the same trick on here others do.

Also.. look up strawman so you know what it means before using it again.

I have a college degree and three financial degrees, I'm pretty sure I know what a strawman argument is. If you wanna use the word hyperbole, that works too.

Either way, it was an exaggerated to flat out inaccurate statement in order to make a really poor point about some imaginary general sentiment towards Russell that doesn't exist on this forum. Everyone on here likes to loves Russell to varying degrees. No one hates or dislikes him.

Can we get back to beating this dead horse argument now Si?

The fact you cannot even see this clear and obvious bias does exist every day here is reason to black ball you from this discussion IMO.

 

[Uncle Si]

I gave you two examples and it took 3 seconds so youre wrong.

And you double down by doing the same trick on here others do.

Also.. look up strawman so you know what it means before using it again.

I have a college degree and three financial degrees, I'm pretty sure I know what a strawman argument is. If you wanna use the word hyperbole, that works too.

Either way, it was an exaggerated to flat out inaccurate statement in order to make a really poor point about some imaginary general sentiment towards Russell that doesn't exist on this forum. Everyone on here likes to loves Russell to varying degrees. No one hates or dislikes him.

Can we get back to beating this dead horse argument now Si?

Nice redirection.

It wasnt exaggerated nor inaccurate as i provided you two examples. Saying everyone here likes or loves is, however, exaggerated and inaccurate.. because again i gave examples.

I dont care if you work for NASA, someone saying a person doesnt like the qb is not a strawman argument. Hyperbole is not strawman. Your multiple degrees should be put to better use.

Next time dont post nonsense just to argue.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I gave you two examples and it took 3 seconds so youre wrong.

And you double down by doing the same trick on here others do.

Also.. look up strawman so you know what it means before using it again.

I have a college degree and three financial degrees, I'm pretty sure I know what a strawman argument is. If you wanna use the word hyperbole, that works too.

Either way, it was an exaggerated to flat out inaccurate statement in order to make a really poor point about some imaginary general sentiment towards Russell that doesn't exist on this forum. Everyone on here likes to loves Russell to varying degrees. No one hates or dislikes him.

Can we get back to beating this dead horse argument now Si?

Nice redirection.

It wasnt exaggerated nor inaccurate as i provided you two examples. Saying everyone here likes or loves is, however, exaggerated and inaccurate.. because again i gave examples.

I dont care if you work for NASA, someone saying a person doesnt like the qb is not a strawman argument. Hyperbole is not strawman. Your multiple degrees should be put to better use.

Next time dont post nonsense just to argue.

Yes WilliamCooper. A dude who hasn't posted in a year, and who I just looked through his posts prior and can't find one "I dislike Russell and never give him credit" statement.

search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&author_id=18774

Feel free to peruse through Si and let me know if you find anything.

 

[Uncle Si]

He'd rather have Ryan Fitzpatrick... that was one of his more recent gems. There are scores more. he posts in every gameday forum.



Love that you tried to research it. Doing terrific buddy

 

[Fade]

Because the poor starts consistently put your team in a hole over and over creating scenarios where you have to be perfect in 2nd halves to win close games. Like we had to be in Carolina.

Incorrect. Numbers via PFR.

1st Half: 12 TD 119 Rating | 2nd Half: 13 TD 105 Rating.

Wilson has been consistently great in both halves of the game. He has a passer rating over 100 in all 4 quarters of the game for the season. Elite.

Yes Russell is clutch, but Russell also has games like Denver, Chicago, Chargers and Rams this year where he makes critical mistakes that contributed to us[them] losing.

It is an impossible standard to ask for QBs to be perfect all of the time. None of them do this. Wilson maintains a higher quality of play for longer stretches of time than 97% of the Quarterbacks in the league. Under a higher degree of difficulty over the last 4 seasons. Elite.

Consistency, That's "elite" to me. Guys like Brady and Brees are elite because they've done it year after year, game after game, and quarter after quarter.

Wilson has performed season in and season out, in a poorer scheme behind Cable O-Line's for 4 seasons. Despite this statistically Wilson has kept up with the GOATs of the sport. Elite.

Russell? Not there yet for me. For you? That's cool.

You're suffering from "Mythical Franchise Quarterback Syndrome" that guy doesn't exist. Hold any QB to that standard and there are 0 elite QBs in the NFL.

 

[Mad Dog]

Yes Russell is clutch, but Russell also has games like Denver, Chicago, Chargers and Rams this year where he makes critical mistakes that contributed to us losing.



Consistency, That's "elite" to me. Guys like Brady and Brees are elite because they've done it year after year, game after game, and quarter after quarter.

I'm very sure that Brady and Brees have put up their share of stinkers in their first 7 years as QB's. Do I have to wander into Pro football reference to pull out some game stats for you or will you believe me on spec? Oh what the heck, here it is:

For example from Brady's 7th season:
November 5 2006: 20/35 57% 201yds 0TDs and 4 INTs in a 20-27 loss
or how about:
Dec 10 2006: 12/25 48% 78 yds 0TDs 0 INTs in a 0-21 loss

3 games that season below 75% QB rating

Or from Drew Brees 7th Season:
Sept 24 2007: 29/45 64% 225yds 0 TDS and 4 INTs in a 14-31 loss
or
Sept 6 20017 28/41 68% 192 yds 0 TDs and 2 INTs in a 10-41 loss

6 games that season below 75% QB rating


Russell Wilson in 2018 so far has not posted a QB rating below 86 and only one game with multiple INT's. And if you think I'm cherry picking different eras, Brady has already had 2 games sub 75 QB rating and 2 games with multiple INT's in 2018. Admittedly Brees 2018 has been otherworldly but even he has one game below 85 QB rating in a year he's been the clear front runner for MVP.

This consistency thing is a mirage and those that believe it are either delusional or just never actually watch another QB play through a critical lens.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Outstanding post. It's just odd that we don't see comparisons like that with other QB's. But I don't follow other fan bases, so maybe they are complaining about their QB as well. But there's no way in hell it's near the level that Russ gets. It is what it is, and it likely will never change. He'll just keep balling and the team will keep winning.

 

[rcaido]

Because the poor starts consistently put your team in a hole over and over creating scenarios where you have to be perfect in 2nd halves to win close games. Like we had to be in Carolina.

Incorrect. Numbers via PFR.

1st Half: 12 TD 119 Rating | 2nd Half: 13 TD 105 Rating.

Wilson has been consistently great in both halves of the game. He has a passer rating over 100 in all 4 quarters of the game for the season. Elite.

Yes Russell is clutch, but Russell also has games like Denver, Chicago, Chargers and Rams this year where he makes critical mistakes that contributed to us[them] losing.

It is an impossible standard to ask for QBs to be perfect all of the time. None of them do this. Wilson maintains a higher quality of play for longer stretches of time than 97% of the Quarterbacks in the league. Under a higher degree of difficulty over the last 4 seasons. Elite.

Consistency, That's "elite" to me. Guys like Brady and Brees are elite because they've done it year after year, game after game, and quarter after quarter.

Wilson has performed season in and season out, in a poorer scheme behind Cable O-Line's for 4 seasons. Despite this statistically Wilson has kept up with the GOATs of the sport. Elite.

Russell? Not there yet for me. For you? That's cool.

You're suffering from "Mythical Franchise Quarterback Syndrome" that guy doesn't exist. Hold any QB to that standard and there are 0 elite QBs in the NFL.

2013
1st half 15 TD, Rate 106.3
2nd half 14 TD, Rate 95.5

2014
1st half 11 TD, rate 91.2
2nd half 14 TD, RATE 95.3

2015
1ST HALF 16 TD, RATE 101.4
2ND HALF 22 TD, RATE 111.4

2016
1ST HALF 12 TD, RATE 96.8
2ND HALF 13 TD, RATE 88.7

2017
1ST HALF 8 TD, RATE 78
2ND HALF 26 TD, RATE 112

2018
1ST HALF 12 TD, RATE 119
2ND HALF 13 TD, RATE 105

So pretty much only 2017 but yeah he has slow starts all the time right...

 

[Fade]

Yes Russell is clutch, but Russell also has games like Denver, Chicago, Chargers and Rams this year where he makes critical mistakes that contributed to us losing.



Consistency, That's "elite" to me. Guys like Brady and Brees are elite because they've done it year after year, game after game, and quarter after quarter.

I'm very sure that Brady and Brees have put up their share of stinkers in their first 7 years as QB's. Do I have to wander into Pro football reference to pull out some game stats for you or will you believe me on spec? Oh what the heck, here it is:

For example from Brady's 7th season:
November 5 2006: 20/35 57% 201yds 0TDs and 4 INTs in a 20-27 loss
or how about:
Dec 10 2006: 12/25 48% 78 yds 0TDs 0 INTs in a 0-21 loss

3 games that season below 75% QB rating

Or from Drew Brees 7th Season:
Sept 24 2007: 29/45 64% 225yds 0 TDS and 4 INTs in a 14-31 loss
or
Sept 6 20017 28/41 68% 192 yds 0 TDs and 2 INTs in a 10-41 loss

6 games that season below 75% QB rating


Russell Wilson in 2018 so far has not posted a QB rating below 86 and only one game with multiple INT's. And if you think I'm cherry picking different eras, Brady has already had 2 games sub 75 QB rating and 2 games with multiple INT's in 2018. Admittedly Brees 2018 has been otherworldly but even he has one game below 85 QB rating in a year he's been the clear front runner for MVP.

This consistency thing is a mirage and those that believe it are either delusional or just never actually watch another QB play through a critical lens.

You bodied him. Roll him in carpet and throw him in the trunk. I will go get the shovel.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

The one game to me that he just looked way off was the Chargers game. For whatever reason, he just didn't have it that day. And still almost made the comeback.

 

[Mad Dog]

Russell most certainly has had his off days. All QB's do. But to state he is inconsistent when all the evidence shows he's one of the most consistent QB's of this generation is ridiculous. It's possible that his unbelievable consistency makes those bad games more glaring to some fans. He's set expectations a little too high.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

The fact that the peers he is compared to are Brady and Brees instead of Gabbert or Tebow should tell you something.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I bet nearly 100 percent of players that go against him would say that Russ is a flat out baller. Players and coaches are who I would trust over fans. They are the ones who see him on the field and have to game plan for him.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

2013
1st half 15 TD, Rate 106.3
2nd half 14 TD, Rate 95.5

2014
1st half 11 TD, rate 91.2
2nd half 14 TD, RATE 95.3

2015
1ST HALF 16 TD, RATE 101.4
2ND HALF 22 TD, RATE 111.4

2016
1ST HALF 12 TD, RATE 96.8
2ND HALF 13 TD, RATE 88.7

2017
1ST HALF 8 TD, RATE 78
2ND HALF 26 TD, RATE 112

2018
1ST HALF 12 TD, RATE 119
2ND HALF 13 TD, RATE 105

So pretty much only 2017 but yeah he has slow starts all the time right...

28 more TD's in the 2nd half of games for Russell's career vs 1st half isn't starting slow and inconsistent? That's an ENTIRE year of TD's.

If you guys don't see that it takes Russell a while to get into rhythm and tempo and he's MUCH better in the 2nd half especially the 4th quarter, then I don't know what to say. You're not watching the same QB.