Russell Moves to Elite on the QB Index

Shock2k

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Story: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... d-rankings

Mike Salk on ESPN 710 forced John Clayton into admitting that he was number 4 also.

Is the worm starting to turn for Russell. Are they finally moving past the size issue now that he's had a productive pocket passing season.

OR

Is Russell just doing what he always does. Forcing them to eat their own words (and to be honest, eat my own doubts).
 

Hawkstorian

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I was laughing when I heard that conversation. Awesome that Salk didn't let JC off the hook, forcing him to admit the obvious.
 

Hawk-Lock

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About time Brees got dropped from the elite category. He was elite, but not anymore. I don't care how bad your team is, if you're an elite QB your team should at least win 8 games.

Alex Smith is too low on that list.

Derek Carr is too high on that list.

I know Flacco got hurt, but he should be higher. He is one of the better clutch playoff QB's.

It's nice to see Blake Bortles get some recognition. He quietly had a really good year.
 

Fade

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I think Drew Brees is still elite, he just can't overcome the worst defense in NFL history.

LOL at that Flavor of the Month list.
-Having Palmer number 2 ? A 35 year old guy who has never won a playoff game is number 2.
-Cam #1? maybe one day, but another guy who is 1-2 for his career in the playoffs. That 1 win is against Ryan Lindley btw.
-There isn't 8 QBs better than Rodgers.
 

Pandion Haliaetus

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In my projections, I thought Wilson would have had this season last year.

This offense is pretty much the same as last y ear just without Lynch and Paul Richardson.

Now, insert Lockett for Harvin. And you see the massive difference of having that type of athletic talent without the headache.

This WR group is the best in the NFL in terms of Efficiency. Baldwin and Kearse have matured into veterans right along with Wilson. And Lockett has provided that spark and electric talent that takes pressure off of everyone. Its crazy that kid is just a rookie.

If you told me this kid would have the competitive fire, quickness, and sure hands of Baldwin, the ability to make contested catches as well as be a deep threat like 2012-2013 Golden Tate, and the agility and athleicism of a young Harvin... I would have told you this kid would have deserved to be a first round pick.

Back to Russell, and the reason I mentioned Lockett, these guys will have at least 3 more seasons together if not more, Lockett to me in terms of intangibles and work ethics comes of like the Russell Wilson of WRs. I cant imagine the cieling of thier potential growth together.

Year 5 Baldwin/Year 4 Wilson have become an elite connection.

Now imagine what Year 4 Lockett/ Year 7 Wilson could become, when Lockett is probably already better than Year 2 Tate and even Year 2 Baldwin.

Lockett after this season will probably be as advanced as a Year 3 Tate in terms of intermediate to deep routes and Year 4 Baldwin in short to intermediate routes and catching ability. With tremendous Kudos to Baldwin for being a mentor and role model.

The future will be exciting for these Lock and Russ and Baldwin if he is re-signed after 2016. Which I hope he is bcuz hes been one my favorite players the last 2-3 years. And add Year 2 Graham in this system with Year 4 Luke Willson and Year 3. Paul Richardson. Thats a solid core to build around.
 

olyfan63

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Pandion Haliaetus":1gb26r74 said:
Now, insert Lockett for Harvin. And you see the massive difference of having that type of athletic talent without the headache.

Wow. That nails it. Yes, Lockett's quickness and elusiveness is similar to Harvin's. We see what Pete was originally thinking with the Harvin fiasco, except with a REAL WR, who runs real routes, has learned the playbook, and is a terrific teammate.

It also helps that Lockett checks zero boxes for Borderline Personality Disordered Psychopath, where Harvin pretty much batted 1.000 on them.
 

theincrediblesok

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John Clayton once had Mark Sanchez ranked higher than Luck and Griffin III.

Also ranked Aaron Rodgers in the elite tier before he played his 3rd season as a full time starter.

Below is John Clayton's quote on what he believe an Elite QB must do to deserve that title.

In ranking the league's starting quarterbacks, I have three categories. The first is the Elite level, which includes quarterbacks who can carry teams into the playoffs. An elite quarterback is one who can complete better than 60 percent of his passes, has the potential to throw for 4,000 yards and has fourth-quarter comeback ability.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/preview10/column ... id=5489176
 

rjdriver

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Dude was elite in my book the moment that Marine called his name.
 

jkitsune

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I don't really understand how Cam and Russell have nearly identical seasons, but Cam's completion % is <60%, yet they praise Cam's 'accuracy.' Russell's is what, 67%?

Cam was great this year. So was Russell. They had very similar years - Russell was better as a passer, Cam as a runner. Cam's team was better than the Hawks, so he gets additional accolades, I get that.

But I'm not convinced that Cam is clearly better than Warner/Brady this year, but Russ is clearly worse.

Ah, well.
 

joeseahawks

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Russell is on a very short leach. He is elite, until the next Seahawks loss ... then he is back to game manager.
Let's face it, certain guys always get a free pass. And they know who they are: Brees, Rodgers, Luck, Rivers, ... etc.
When they lose, their defense gets the blame. When they win, we give them all the accolades.
 

Seanhawk

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He moved to elite in my index in Chicago, 2012.
 

blazen2392

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Hawk-Lock":zmxo369k said:
About time Brees got dropped from the elite category. He was elite, but not anymore. I don't care how bad your team is, if you're an elite QB your team should at least win 8 games.

Alex Smith is too low on that list.

Derek Carr is too high on that list.

I know Flacco got hurt, but he should be higher. He is one of the better clutch playoff QB's.

It's nice to see Blake Bortles get some recognition. He quietly had a really good year.


Kidding me? Brees has one of the best QBs this year. Hes had absolutely no help on defense. Hes playing as good as you can possibly play at QB and getting no help from anyone. their defense is so bad they are breaking nfl records.
 

blazen2392

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joeseahawks":2j7cffpz said:
Russell is on a very short leach. He is elite, until the next Seahawks loss ... then he is back to game manager.
Let's face it, certain guys always get a free pass. And they know who they are: Brees, Rodgers, Luck, Rivers, ... etc.
When they lose, their defense gets the blame. When they win, we give them all the accolades.


To be fair, Russell really was a game manager, but more so because thats what he was asked to do. He was doing what bridgewater is asked to do now, the only difference was Russell could make plays when we needed him to.

I think Russell is a 45+ TD qb with the right weapons around him. When he posts that kind of season (which i think he will do here pretty soon), then he will silence the critics.
 

HawkGA

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I think moving down historically great QBs is a tough thing to do. Peyton probably made it easy for him this year but how do you know when to move Brees down or Brady when that time comes? I think part of the issue is that being an "elite" QB really shouldn't be something determined by a year. Somebody can have a great season, but that doesn't make them an elite QB. By the same token, one bad season does not drop somebody. That ranking, to me, is no different than just producing the QBR rankings or whatever other metric you want to measure for a given season.
 

jkitsune

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Hawk-Lock":2h8vctyr said:
About time Brees got dropped from the elite category. He was elite, but not anymore. I don't care how bad your team is, if you're an elite QB your team should at least win 8 games.

This is the same sort of argument that is used to justify Cam Newton's 'clear' #1 status. I'm curious what your opinion is on Cam Newton's MVP bid - If you're going to use team wins to evaluate a QB's performance, rather than his own stats, then Cam is a shoe-in. If, like me, you don't think Cam Newton's individual stats are clearly superior to Russell's or Carson's (or even Brady's) and team wins shouldn't be a reason to elevate a QB's status, then it becomes a much tighter race for those sorts of accolades.

Drew Brees had a great year on a bad team.
 

Anthony!

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jkitsune":1wpfh93e said:
Hawk-Lock":1wpfh93e said:
About time Brees got dropped from the elite category. He was elite, but not anymore. I don't care how bad your team is, if you're an elite QB your team should at least win 8 games.

This is the same sort of argument that is used to justify Cam Newton's 'clear' #1 status. I'm curious what your opinion is on Cam Newton's MVP bid - If you're going to use team wins to evaluate a QB's performance, rather than his own stats, then Cam is a shoe-in. If, like me, you don't think Cam Newton's individual stats are clearly superior to Russell's or Carson's (or even Brady's) and team wins shouldn't be a reason to elevate a QB's status, then it becomes a much tighter race for those sorts of accolades.

Drew Brees had a great year on a bad team.


Yeah I agree you can be an Elite Qb and not win 8 games.
 

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