Rumor: RW asking to be the highest paid player in history

[Rob12]

I never said Elite the point was avg. Flacco is not avg.

But Baltimore made him the highest-paid QB, even though I think we all agree he's not the best QB in the NFL. And we all pretty much saw that as a mistake - after all, why pay top money unless you're getting a top guy?

But now that shoe is on our foot. Do we pay a guy who is, I think we can all agree, not the best QB in the NFL, as if he was the best?

That's the crux of this entire thread.

Completely disagree. There is a fatal flaw in this line of thinking.

Just because a guy is the top QB in the league, that doesn't mean he is or should be making the most money. That might work in an idealized fantasy, but it's not reality.

The value of new contracts increases each year. A guy considered a top-tier CB who is in line for a new contract this year is going to get paid more than comparable top-tier guys did 2 years ago. Even if it's debatable whether he's better than those other guys or not, he's going to set the new mark just due to the nature of NFL contracts.

This plays out at all positions. Teams don't pay a guy the most money at his position because they think he's the absolute best in the league at his position. They pay because they feel he's among that top tier with the potential to help the team win a championship.

When the Seahawks make Wilson the top-paid QB in the league, they won't be doing it because they think he's clearly better than Aaron Rodgers (for example). They'll be doing it because they believe he's a franchise QB who is among the best at his position and who is crucial to the team's hopes of winning more championships in the coming years. And the price to lock a guy like that down in the NFL is simply "more than the last top guy got." And that speaks volumes about how Cincinnati and SF see their QBs.

In the end, it's insanity to let a franchise QB with a proven track record of success walk away over money. It would be one thing if Wilson was in his late 30s, but with his potential and at his age and with what he's done for this team so far, there's zero reason to let him walk. Play hardball all you want during contract negotiations, because a QB deal is so huge, but get something done in the end.

And for all of the people worried about what it means for Wilson to be the top-paid QB in the league, don't worry too much. He'll be 3rd once Newton and Luck get their new deals.

Great post. Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Hawkfan77]

This "top QB in the league" stuff bothers me.

Would Tom Brady be the best QB in the league playing for the Seattle Seahawks in the NFC West? Andrew Luck? Phillip Rivers? Drew Brees?

Isn't it all subjective? The bottom line is that I look at RW and I see the best QB for the Seahawks.

Can't that be good enough?

Totally agree. I care about the Hawks and who fits what they want to do. Brady and Manning would not be Brady and Manning in Seattle, and the Hawks aren't paying Wilson (yet) to put up 4,000 yards and throw 35 TDs, it's not how they operate. But they do ask of him he does extremely well and is the absolute perfect fit for the offense. To the Seahawks he might as be the best QB in the NFL because he runs their system so effectively.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

It looks like I made a mistake. I don't think Eli was top-5 in terms of salary when he won, but I think Peyton was. I found a better website. Peyton had a 1 million base salary but was still in the top-5 in 2007 when he won. As far as I can tell, he is the only one since Elway in 99. I'm assuming Elway's 3 million contract was top-5 in 1999. Fun fact, Elway actuallly took a paycut that year to help the Broncos get more players. I thought that was interesting.

That's nothing. Wilson had a salary of 600,000 when he led his team to his first superbowl! Not 15 years ago but in the last 2 years!! NOT EVEN A CLOSE COMPARISON FINANCIALLY.
What's more he was rated top 20 player of all players by his peers last year while still earning less than 1 million IN IN 2014!!

If we insist on not paying him top dollars because some Seahawks fans who insist their franchise qb isn't worth it then we should consider compensating him for what he GAVE US THESE PAST 3 YEARS as a top 50 player on top of the top 10 qb salary moving forward.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

Also Elway and Manning had huge contracts early on because they weren't bound by the new rookie contracts limits. Bad comparison to draw from.

 

[McGruff]

If you want to become the vikings in the late 2000s by all means lets not sign wilson. Vikings had almost a complete team as any. Favre came along and they should of went to if not won the superbowl his first year there. That year they went 12-4. The two years prior they went 10-6 and 8-8 with QBs such as Tarvaris Jackson, Kelly Holcomb, Brooks Bollinger, Gus Frerotte

You might be able to routinely get into the playoffs with a elite TEAM and an average or below average QB but I doubt you would get to the superbowl often if at all.

So how do you do both? Have an elite team AND have an elite QB?

We know that elite QB's by themselves don't win SuperBowls.......

So what is best alternative?

Elite team and decent QB OR

Elite QB and decent team?

Guess that is the crux of the question. Sounds like most of us want to keep Wilson and hope he is elite enough to carry us when the rest of our team inevitably falls off a bit.....

Winning a Superbowl is hard. Every year 32 teams and probably 40-45 QB's compete for it, and only one wins. Even great ones never get a SB trophy (Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, etc.)

Winning a Superbowl is hard. But it starts with an easier goal of making the playoffs every year. And when you look at the teams that are perenial playoff teams, you will notice one common thread . . . great QB play. Yeah, the mediocre QB's get there once in a while but think about New England, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Denver, even Baltimore with the underrated Flacco . . . great to elite QB play.

Wilson has proven that 3 out of 3 times he can get us deep into the playoffs and on the doorstep of a Superbowl. i don't think you can overpay for those kind of odds.

 

[StoneCold]

Dilfer.

Pay that man.

SC
/thread

 

[Ad Hawk]

Winning a Superbowl is hard. Every year 32 teams and probably 40-45 QB's compete for it, and only one wins. Even great ones never get a SB trophy (Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, etc.)

Winning a Superbowl is hard. But it starts with an easier goal of making the playoffs every year. And when you look at the teams that are perenial playoff teams, you will notice one common thread . . . great QB play. Yeah, the mediocre QB's get there once in a while but think about New England, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Denver, even Baltimore with the underrated Flacco . . . great to elite QB play.

Wilson has proven that 3 out of 3 times he can get us deep into the playoffs and on the doorstep of a Superbowl. i don't think you can overpay for those kind of odds.

This is true; the services of a great quarterback are immeasurable, especially one with Russ's intangibles. He's given us incredible value to this point, even laughably so. He deserves a huge paycheck.

But once the QB takes too much of your cap space, and you can no longer field a balanced team, good QB play cannot make up the deficiencies, and you fall out of contention, as has been shown.

The difficulty that all are struggling against, including JS and Wilson's agent is the need for balance. What Russ's agent is hired to do isn't to provide balance for the team, it's to get "top dollar" for Russ. What JS has modeled so far is paying a balanced salary to field a complete team team that plays well together, yet also pay fair market value as incentive for good individual play. Russ has earned a high-dollar contract as an individual, but a fair market deal that pays top-dollar may not be consistent with fielding a balanced team and the salary cap's bottom line. In this case, if you say yes to something, you have to say no to something else; that's the reality of the cap.

It will be fun to see JS work his magic, and hopefully find a path to structure Russ's contract in a way that shows him we want his leadership here, and at the same time not lose any other important cogs in the machine. I doubt we lose Russ. In the end, I think we'll pay more than some here hoped, but less than the moon.

I'm willing to wait and see, hoping for the best. Nothing has to be signed today, or even by this next month.

 

[Rob12]

Winning a Superbowl is hard. Every year 32 teams and probably 40-45 QB's compete for it, and only one wins. Even great ones never get a SB trophy (Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, etc.)

Winning a Superbowl is hard. But it starts with an easier goal of making the playoffs every year. And when you look at the teams that are perenial playoff teams, you will notice one common thread . . . great QB play. Yeah, the mediocre QB's get there once in a while but think about New England, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Denver, even Baltimore with the underrated Flacco . . . great to elite QB play.

Wilson has proven that 3 out of 3 times he can get us deep into the playoffs and on the doorstep of a Superbowl. i don't think you can overpay for those kind of odds.

This is true; the services of a great quarterback are immeasurable, especially one with Russ's intangibles. He's given us incredible value to this point, even laughably so. He deserves a huge paycheck.

But once the QB takes too much of your cap space, and you can no longer field a balanced team, good QB play cannot make up the deficiencies, and you fall out of contention, as has been shown.

The difficulty that all are struggling against, including JS and Wilson's agent is the need for balance. What Russ's agent is hired to do isn't to provide balance for the team, it's to get "top dollar" for Russ. What JS has modeled so far is paying a balanced salary to field a complete team team that plays well together, yet also pay fair market value as incentive for good individual play. Russ has earned a high-dollar contract as an individual, but a fair market deal that pays top-dollar may not be consistent with fielding a balanced team and the salary cap's bottom line. In this case, if you say yes to something, you have to say no to something else; that's the reality of the cap.

It will be fun to see JS work his magic, and hopefully find a path to structure Russ's contract in a way that shows him we want his leadership here, and at the same time not lose any other important cogs in the machine. I doubt we lose Russ. In the end, I think we'll pay more than some here hoped, but less than the moon.

I'm willing to wait and see, hoping for the best. Nothing has to be signed today, or even by this next month.

I think that they're intent on keeping the absolute core of this team together - Russ, Sherman, Earl, Kam, and Bobby. Those five guys chew up a lot of the cap. The youngsters become really good under this coaching staff, and maybe one or two of them will join that core. We'll see how Graham transitions as a Hawk.

Coach the rest up. The 2016 Seahawks will look very different apart from that core. I think Lynch, Bennett, Avril, Mebane, and possibly Okung will be gone from that next tier. Beast is a core guy, but I think he's done after this year.

Bottom line... When the Seahawks are paying Russ $25M a year, it's going to be about reloading.... A lot. And the hit we're taking in depth might bury us from time to time.

His extension is essential, but it's going to hurt. We will lose a lot of very good players. That's the nature of this whole thing.

 

[McGruff]

Winning a Superbowl is hard. Every year 32 teams and probably 40-45 QB's compete for it, and only one wins. Even great ones never get a SB trophy (Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, etc.)

Winning a Superbowl is hard. But it starts with an easier goal of making the playoffs every year. And when you look at the teams that are perenial playoff teams, you will notice one common thread . . . great QB play. Yeah, the mediocre QB's get there once in a while but think about New England, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Denver, even Baltimore with the underrated Flacco . . . great to elite QB play.

Wilson has proven that 3 out of 3 times he can get us deep into the playoffs and on the doorstep of a Superbowl. i don't think you can overpay for those kind of odds.

This is true; the services of a great quarterback are immeasurable, especially one with Russ's intangibles. He's given us incredible value to this point, even laughably so. He deserves a huge paycheck.

But once the QB takes too much of your cap space, and you can no longer field a balanced team, good QB play cannot make up the deficiencies, and you fall out of contention, as has been shown.

No, it hasn't been shown. How much cap room does Brady take up? Manning? Roethlisburger? Flacco? Rogers? Massive amounts. And yet their teams are in the playoffs pretty much every year, and after that its just elite QB's beating up elite QB's and how that goes from year to year will vary. But still, the goal is to be a team that gets to the playoffs every year, and gives us a chance at winning a few SB's over that time frame. And to accomplish that, you need a to pay the QB.

 

[Tical21]

Winning a Superbowl is hard. Every year 32 teams and probably 40-45 QB's compete for it, and only one wins. Even great ones never get a SB trophy (Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, etc.)

Winning a Superbowl is hard. But it starts with an easier goal of making the playoffs every year. And when you look at the teams that are perenial playoff teams, you will notice one common thread . . . great QB play. Yeah, the mediocre QB's get there once in a while but think about New England, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Denver, even Baltimore with the underrated Flacco . . . great to elite QB play.

Wilson has proven that 3 out of 3 times he can get us deep into the playoffs and on the doorstep of a Superbowl. i don't think you can overpay for those kind of odds.

This is true; the services of a great quarterback are immeasurable, especially one with Russ's intangibles. He's given us incredible value to this point, even laughably so. He deserves a huge paycheck.

But once the QB takes too much of your cap space, and you can no longer field a balanced team, good QB play cannot make up the deficiencies, and you fall out of contention, as has been shown.

No, it hasn't been shown. How much cap room does Brady take up? Manning? Roethlisburger? Flacco? Rogers? Massive amounts. And yet their teams are in the playoffs pretty much every year, and after that its just elite QB's beating up elite QB's and how that goes from year to year will vary. But still, the goal is to be a team that gets to the playoffs every year, and gives us a chance at winning a few SB's over that time frame. And to accomplish that, you need a to pay the QB.

Quick, show me any evidence that paying your QB helps your chances of winning a Super Bowl.

 

[Hawkfish]

Quick, show me any evidence that paying your QB helps your chances of winning a Super Bowl.

I would like to see this, too.

 

[McGruff]

Winning a Superbowl is hard. Every year 32 teams and probably 40-45 QB's compete for it, and only one wins. Even great ones never get a SB trophy (Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, etc.)

Winning a Superbowl is hard. But it starts with an easier goal of making the playoffs every year. And when you look at the teams that are perenial playoff teams, you will notice one common thread . . . great QB play. Yeah, the mediocre QB's get there once in a while but think about New England, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Denver, even Baltimore with the underrated Flacco . . . great to elite QB play.

Wilson has proven that 3 out of 3 times he can get us deep into the playoffs and on the doorstep of a Superbowl. i don't think you can overpay for those kind of odds.

This is true; the services of a great quarterback are immeasurable, especially one with Russ's intangibles. He's given us incredible value to this point, even laughably so. He deserves a huge paycheck.

But once the QB takes too much of your cap space, and you can no longer field a balanced team, good QB play cannot make up the deficiencies, and you fall out of contention, as has been shown.

No, it hasn't been shown. How much cap room does Brady take up? Manning? Roethlisburger? Flacco? Rogers? Massive amounts. And yet their teams are in the playoffs pretty much every year, and after that its just elite QB's beating up elite QB's and how that goes from year to year will vary. But still, the goal is to be a team that gets to the playoffs every year, and gives us a chance at winning a few SB's over that time frame. And to accomplish that, you need a to pay the QB.

Quick, show me any evidence that paying your QB helps your chances of winning a Super Bowl.

2014 NFL Playoff Teams . . .

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Joe Flacco
Ben Roethlisburgher
Andrew Luck
Andy Dalton
Aaron Rogers
Tony Romo
Matthew Stafford
Cam Newton
Russell Wilson
The 7th string PS guy from the Arizona Cardinals

Of that list only one of those guys is not getting or soon to get serious bank.

 

[SnoCoHawk]

I've always looked at Russell getting paid the highest (even though he's not the best) as just like real estate. It's an appreciating market. The most recent sale will always have the highest price - even if an identical or superior home on the block sold for a lower price not that long ago. The price you pay today also sets the bar for every other house that comes on the market afterwards, so soon enough you won't have the most expensive house on the block anymore. That means your house will continue to appreciate so that next year it's worth more than you paid for it, and in 4 or 5 years what you paid will look like an absolute bargain.

 

[Tical21]

That'd be a great list if your end goal was to make the playoffs.

 

[Hawkfan77]

That'd be a great list if your end goal was to make the playoffs.

Well 6 QBs from that list have won at least one SB

 

[AgentDib]

Statements from either side here are simply part of the bargaining process and should not be over analyzed. RW's camp wants to anchor the discussions to a high number and the Seahawks FO wants to anchor the discussion to a low number. Releasing information to the media is part of that process. Every single "news" item or rumor released about the negotiations so far can be accurately restated as "Seahawks and RW are still bargaining over an extension."

The only (remotely) interesting thing about this bargaining process is how both sides have to spin their position to the fans, not to win in the court of public opinion so much as to avoid losing in it.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

That'd be a great list if your end goal was to make the playoffs.

That is EXACTLY what the goal is given it's the only way to give yourself a chance to make it to a Superbowl let alone win one.

 

[McGruff]

That'd be a great list if your end goal was to make the playoffs.

You can't win the SB without making the playoffs. Only 1 in 32 teams wins the SB. But the odds increase if you make the playoffs to 1 in 12. Keep doing that year after year and the odds increase even more.

And what you will find without fail is that those teams who makes the playoffs year after year are led by elite QB's making big time money.

 

[Tical21]

That'd be a great list if your end goal was to make the playoffs.

You can't win the SB without making the playoffs. Only 1 in 32 teams wins the SB. But the odds increase if you make the playoffs to 1 in 12. Keep doing that year after year and the odds increase even more.

Peyton makes the playoffs almost every year. Heck, Brady did make the playoffs every year. The Cowboys often made the playoffs, so did the Saints, so do the Packers. Has it helped them win Super Bowls?

 

[Ad Hawk]

That'd be a great list if your end goal was to make the playoffs.

You can't win the SB without making the playoffs. Only 1 in 32 teams wins the SB. But the odds increase if you make the playoffs to 1 in 12. Keep doing that year after year and the odds increase even more.

And what you will find without fail is that those teams who makes the playoffs year after year are led by elite QB's making big time money.

But again, how many of those who have actually won the superbowl are those who are paid the highest? This is where it appears the data shows the top money-maker does not win it. And so if history holds true, we may consistently get to the playoffs if RW is the highest paid, but the chances of winning the big game itself decrease.

Is it possible to pay him handsomely--yet not the highest-paid QB in the league--and still keep him? That remains to be seen. He may end up the highest paid in some facets of the contract, but not in others (such as guaranteed money vs. total/year, etc.).