Rebuild the defense. Do you keep anyone?

[FrodosFinger]

We’re wasting away the number one offense in the league DVOA on a lower echelon scrubby defense. Hurtt needs to pull his head out and learn how to player scheme a little better. There’s no need for Taysom Hill to gash us like that. No excuse

 

[chris98251]

For a 3 - 4 to be effective the LB'S need to be able to roam and attack, if they are getting tied up with blockers then the DE's and NT are not tieing those guys up. LB's blitzing from all places, attacking gaps and runners. If they are playing bend don't break with a 3-4 you will get ate alive.

 

[knownone]

Barton played his best game of the season yesterday, so credit where it is due.

It does look like a personnel issue. And what's interesting is the problems are at positions most would have expected to be a strength of the team. For example, the defensive line, safeties, and linebackers have been average to below average. Meanwhile, the corners have been a relative strength of the team despite having the most significant question marks going into the season.

My hunch is the Hawks expected guys like Poona and Taylor to maintain their level of play while transitioning into different roles, and they haven't. In contrast, Barton was a calculated risk by the team to see what they had in a young player on an expiring contract. Ultimately, losing Adams destroyed any semblance of defensive identity, considering he was the focal point of the defense going into the season.

I'm not overreacting, given the circumstances. But I think this is Pete and John's last season with a viable excuse for the defense. Next off-season, they'll have cap space, draft capital, and an entire season of evaluation in their new scheme. So if things don't change, one of them needs to go because it's either coaching or failing to provide talented players who fit the scheme.

 

[Fade]

For a 3 - 4 to be effective the LB'S need to be able to roam and attack, if they are getting tied up with blockers then the DE's and NT are not tieing those guys up. LB's blitzing from all places, attacking gaps and runners. If they are playing bend don't break with a 3-4 you will get ate alive.

True. It's the worst of both worlds.

The Seahawks decided to combine the weaknesses of a 3-4 + the weaknesses of a 4-3 and get boat raced every week going against backups. Absolutely genius. No hotseat, no accountability, just keeps getting worse.

 

[hawks4thewin]

We have one good line backer, Brooks, the rest suck. and the DC or Scheme needs to go....

 

[Sun Tzu]

These extreme comments are completely off base. I get that everyone is upset about the performance of our D. However, the extremist views expressed on this and many other threads have reached absurd levels. Every player in our defensive rotation is capable of contributing to a good to great defense. Some who are currently starting should be contributing in more situational roles and others are playing in positions/alignments that are not an ideal fit. None of this is due to the coaches not knowing what they are doing; it is simply the result of 1) not yet having all of the necessary pieces in place to execute the vision, 2) a few injuries, and 3) players learning/adapting to their roles.

1) not yet having all of the necessary pieces in place to execute the vision: We all knew (or should have known) that this was a building year for the defense. This is year one with a new d-coordinator and a new vision. We could have gone all in to fill out the roster with the right pieces to execute his vision and field a competitive defense. Instead, we let Wagner go, we used 3 of our top 4 draft picks on the offensive side, and, although we made a couple of free-agent signings to shore up the defense, I definitely didn't see any get-us-over-the-top all-in type of moves in free agency.

2) a few injuries: In the secondary, we've had multiple corners out for most of the season, and the injury to Adams eliminates the best playmaker on the team. The injuries to Alton and Smith depleted the edge depth. And, I think (I know most disagree with this) LJ would have been a good early-down rotation guy.

3) players learning/adapting to their roles: This is both a bigger deal than some are acknowledging and not as big of a deal as some on here are making it out to be. Regardless, a new coordinator with new variations is an adjustment. The biggest thing missing is that on-the-field leader to get everyone lined up and fired up. The current defensive leaders are lead-by-example guys. If I could take any player from the LOB and plug them into this defense to get things righted it would be Kam.

I for one am glad that we are taking our lumps this year rather than trading draft picks, signing stop-gaps, and/or using draft picks on the defensive side of the ball. I had my doubts on draft night, but I think getting the O-line shored up was the right move.

 

[hawks4thewin]

Brooks has been awful this season, Barton has been even worse. They're not good or so-so this season, they've been absolute dumpster fires. Bar none this is the worse LB corp in the NFL -- let's not sugar coat things here.

It is worth mentioning that Brooks is out of position. He played ILB in college some, but it seemed he spent most of his time at OLB in a 4-3 system. He looks like he doesn't know where to lineup half of the time. Part of me wonders how much did Wagner contribute to his success last season. Wagner was extremely good at diagnosing plays and getting everyone lined up correctly.

As far as switching back to 4-3, I don't think that fixes our problems. I suspect that these issues run much deeper than just the 3-4 alignment.

I think brooks is still playing good but he is carrying bartons pretty pathetic play.... and if we are running 4 Linebackers and you have one good one... that sucks even more... I dont think a scheme switch fixes it.. i think you need to or 3 more solid linebackers.... and our defense is 40% better. The biggest issue i see is we aren't getting pressure at all on the D line...

 

[Spin Doctor]

We have one good line backer, Brooks, the rest suck. and the DC or Scheme needs to go....

Brooks hasn't been good this year, I don't know if you can even count him as being "good".

I think brooks is still playing good but he is carrying bartons pretty pathetic play.... and if we are running 4 Linebackers and you have one good one... that sucks even more... I dont think a scheme switch fixes it.. i think you need to or 3 more solid linebackers.... and our defense is 40% better. The biggest issue i see is we aren't getting pressure at all on the D line...

Brooks is missing a ton of tackles and is constantly out of position. His PFF score is only slightly higher than Barton’s. Key in on Brooks next game, he isn’t playing well.

 

[RiverDog]

We've been rebuilding the defense for the past 6 years. Hurtt is the 3rd DC that Pete has had since then. At some point, we're going to have to quit letting Pete avoid blame by throwing his DC's into the volcano and start holding him accountable. I could halfway understand it if he was an offensive minded coach, but he's supposed to be the best defensive mind of his era. If he can't coach defense anymore, then why in the hell are we keeping him around?

 

[LeveeBreak]

Why is a failed LB bust (Aaron Curry) our LB coach - it's laughable and the LB play shows.

I think Curry is the DL/DE assistant, but I do get your point.

 

[Bear-Hawk]

Not really, because if you watch the games, the Seahawks are getting gashed to the outside. Opponents are attacking the edge over and over. Runs up the gut are being held mostly in check. NTs aren't responsible for the C and D gaps.

Seahawks are now tied with the Bears as worst run defense in the league (170 ypg). Damn. I watch one my teams. change channels. See the same thing!

 

[Ozzy]

We've been rebuilding the defense for the past 6 years. Hurtt is the 3rd DC that Pete has had since then. At some point, we're going to have to quit letting Pete avoid blame by throwing his DC's into the volcano and start holding him accountable. I could halfway understand it if he was an offensive minded coach, but he's supposed to be the best defensive mind of his era. If he can't coach defense anymore, then why in the hell are we keeping him around?

Yeah I’m sort of baffled people
Look at this like it’s a year one rebuild so it can’t be criticized. This defense has established guys all over it and the first year or young guys are playing Bette than they are.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I think Curry is the DL/DE assistant, but I do get your point.

I don't. It seems like a bad point. Since when do we judge a coach on how good they were as a player? It's never worked that way

 

[onanygivensunday]

I would start with considering the 3-4 swap to be a failed experiment. Get back to the old plan. While not the greatest, it couldn't possibly be worse than this.

When other teams have made the same switch, it typically has taken a couple of years/drafts to get the right personnel. The ideal body types are different between a 4-3 and a 3-4. Let's be patient. We have the draft capital to shore up the defense next year.

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

True. It's the worst of both worlds.

The Seahawks decided to combine the weaknesses of a 3-4 + the weaknesses of a 4-3 and get boat raced every week going against backups. Absolutely genius. No hotseat, no accountability, just keeps getting worse.

That sounds really disappointing for you. I am really happy to see how Pete Carroll works with the defense going forward.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Brooks has been awful this season, Barton has been even worse. They're not good or so-so this season, they've been absolute dumpster fires. Bar none this is the worse LB corp in the NFL -- let's not sugar coat things here.

It is worth mentioning that Brooks is out of position. He played ILB in college some, but it seemed he spent most of his time at OLB in a 4-3 system. He looks like he doesn't know where to lineup half of the time. Part of me wonders how much did Wagner contribute to his success last season. Wagner was extremely good at diagnosing plays and getting everyone lined up correctly.

As far as switching back to 4-3, I don't think that fixes our problems. I suspect that these issues run much deeper than just the 3-4 alignment.

The tape I've rewatched Brooks has played ok. I still think he's a good player who may be overloaded with a lot. new scheme, new position, making defensive calls first time, and playing 90+% of the snaps while sourrounded by two terrible linebacker play on each side of him and not much else on defense.

It seems most of his bad plays are late in the game and the whole team is dragging ass including him. I thought he had his best game last week.

 

[Ozzy]

The tape I've rewatched Brooks has played ok. I still think he's a good player who may be overloaded with a lot. new scheme, new position, making defensive calls first time, and playing 90+% of the snaps while sourrounded by two terrible linebacker play on each side of him and not much else on defense.

It seems most of his bad plays are late in the game and the whole team is dragging ass including him. I thought he had his best game last week.

I hope you’re right but he doesn’t looks anywhere near the home run Pete draft apologists have told me he is.

 

[LeveeBreak]

I don't. It seems like a bad point. Since when do we judge a coach on how good they were as a player? It's never worked that way

Since our D is historically bad and he was historically bad for a rare hawks early 1st round pick. But please share your supporting stats on ex-player coaches performance based on their time playing. I'm always open to data that shows my mis-guided understanding of points that are made.

 

[AgentDib]

The tape I've rewatched Brooks has played ok. I still think he's a good player who may be overloaded with a lot. new scheme, new position, making defensive calls first time, and playing 90+% of the snaps while sourrounded by two terrible linebacker play on each side of him and not much else on defense.

It could be Brooks overthinking things due to inexperience but he's definitely playing way too slow.

The play that really stood out to me was the Taysom Hill third and 1 carry in the second quarter. Shortly after the ball is snapped, Hill is moving to the left, Barton is 1 yard downfield and Brooks is another yard directly behind him. Then Taysom hits the gas and three seconds later he's left them both far behind and could have easily turned the corner and run all the way for a long TD. The only thing that saved the play was Tariq Woolen getting through the WR block to tie Hill him up himself long enough for the LBs to catch up. Brooks ran a 4.54 so even if Hill is a 4.44 runner it shouldn't be that dramatic of a mismatch.

 

[Seattle Person]

Why is a failed LB bust (Aaron Curry) our LB coach - it's laughable and the LB play shows.

Ken Dorsey is failed QB and he's one of the hottest names in the NFL for future hires. Not sure this means much. If you can coach, you can coach. Most coaches are failed players...Hence that's why they coach.