Rebuild the defense. Do you keep anyone?

[AgentDib]

Since our D is historically bad and he was historically bad for a rare hawks early 1st round pick. But please share your supporting stats on ex-player coaches performance based on their time playing. I'm always open to data that shows my mis-guided understanding of points that are made.

Being a disappointment in the NFL still puts Curry ahead of 99.999% of the population that never made it to the NFL in the first place. However, the argument being made is not that ex-players make good coaches, but that there isn't a strong correlation between how good you are at playing and how good you are at coaching. Most of the great coaches have never played a snap in the NFL and lots of great players have failed in the transition to coaching.

 

[Seattle Person]

Barton played his best game of the season yesterday, so credit where it is due.

It does look like a personnel issue. And what's interesting is the problems are at positions most would have expected to be a strength of the team. For example, the defensive line, safeties, and linebackers have been average to below average. Meanwhile, the corners have been a relative strength of the team despite having the most significant question marks going into the season.

My hunch is the Hawks expected guys like Poona and Taylor to maintain their level of play while transitioning into different roles, and they haven't. In contrast, Barton was a calculated risk by the team to see what they had in a young player on an expiring contract. Ultimately, losing Adams destroyed any semblance of defensive identity, considering he was the focal point of the defense going into the season.

I'm not overreacting, given the circumstances. But I think this is Pete and John's last season with a viable excuse for the defense. Next off-season, they'll have cap space, draft capital, and an entire season of evaluation in their new scheme. So if things don't change, one of them needs to go because it's either coaching or failing to provide talented players who fit the scheme.

But they don't have that much cap space...A bunch of your cap is going to 2 WR, both FS and SS. A bunch going towards the Dline. It's not as much effective cap as you think. It's only about 32 million before caps/trades/all that good stuff.

 

[RiverDog]

Yeah I’m sort of baffled people
Look at this like it’s a year one rebuild so it can’t be criticized. This defense has established guys all over it and the first year or young guys are playing Bette than they are.

Reading some of the comments, you'd think that Pete was hired last February and that he gets a free pass for the first couple of years while we rebuild the team.

 

[FloridaSeahawk18]

Ken Dorsey is failed QB and he's one of the hottest names in the NFL for future hires. Not sure this means much. If you can coach, you can coach. Most coaches are failed players...Hence that's why they coach.

Usually coaches turned out this way as they didn't have the athleticism or ability in the pro's, but understood mentally what was supposed to happen scheme-wise. I'm not sure I'd lump Aaron Curry in this, if anything he's the complete opposite.

 

[LeveeBreak]

Being a disappointment in the NFL still puts Curry ahead of 99.999% of the population that never made it to the NFL in the first place. However, the argument being made is not that ex-players make good coaches, but that there isn't a strong correlation between how good you are at playing and how good you are at coaching. Most of the great coaches have never played a snap in the NFL and lots of great players have failed in the transition to coaching.

So this is observation based. correct? Similar to the original point as well...with neither opinons based on stats or data. Understood and moving on...

 

[BASF]

I could halfway understand it if he was an offensive minded coach, but he's supposed to be the best defensive mind of his era.

Please show me any article, video or post from any source stating that Carroll is the best defensive mind of his era. That title belongs to Belichick. He is the best of any era and get this, he has been coaching at the same time Carroll has been.

More to the point, the syle of play that Carroll got famous for has basically been outlawed by the league due to "safety" (more like ninety point games are what brings in viewers).

As far as him still being the coach, he is still successful in putting on exciting football games and that sells tickets. Make an owner money, keep your job.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Please show me any article, video or post from any source stating that Carroll is the best defensive mind of his era. That title belongs to Belichick. He is the best of any era and get this, he has been coaching at the same time Carroll has been.

More to the point, the syle of play that Carroll got famous for has basically been outlawed by the league due to "safety" (more like ninety point games are what brings in viewers.

As far as him still being the coach, he is still successful in putting on exciting foitball games and that sells tickets. Make an owner money, keep your job.

Yeah, the style of defense that the LOB played was essentially banned. Lots of rule changes were directly made in challenge of Seattle's defensive dominance.

I would have to say that from 2011 - 2016, Carroll could be considered the best defensive mind. His defense completely changed the NFL for a long time. It's only in 2017 that we started to see that his system start to become less relevant. Carroll created a defensive meta that everyone looked to copy. The Seahawks were the trend setters of the early to mid 2010s.

Right now the Seahawks are kind of playing catch up with the league in terms of defensive trends. I think Carroll's looking to move more towards the Fangio style of defense that is proliferating around the NFL.

 

[RiverDog]

Please show me any article, video or post from any source stating that Carroll is the best defensive mind of his era. That title belongs to Belichick. He is the best of any era and get this, he has been coaching at the same time Carroll has been.

More to the point, the syle of play that Carroll got famous for has basically been outlawed by the league due to "safety" (more like ninety point games are what brings in viewers.

As far as him still being the coach, he is still successful in putting on exciting foitball games and that sells tickets. Make an owner money, keep your job.

OK, if it makes that big of a difference to you, I'll change my statement to say "one of the best defensive minds of his era". But I don't see how that substantially changes my argument or makes it any less defensible. The point is that his long suit is defense, and it's been a huge weakness of his teams for a number of years now.

 

[Ozzy]

And Carroll gets credit for changing how teams play defense as many teams copied our LOB success. Sure for sake of argument Belicheck can be #1 but I'd argue Pete is in the conversation as the next guy mentioned.

 

[Ozzy]

OK, if it makes that big of a difference to you, I'll change my statement to say "one of the best defensive minds of his era". But I don't see how that substantially changes my argument or makes it any less defensible. The point is that his long suit is defense, and it's been a huge weakness of his teams for a number of years now.

and because you're a fellow Tricitian I'm going to agree with you regardless because we're severely outnumbered lol

 

[BASF]

OK, if it makes that big of a difference to you, I'll change my statement to say "one of the best defensive minds of his era". But I don't see how that substantially changes my argument or makes it any less defensible. The point is that his long suit is defense, and it's been a huge weakness of his teams for a number of years now.

He helped make Wilson look like a first ballot HOF. He has helped make a worst QB in the league and career backup look like an MVP candidate. Perhaps his long suit is actually offense.

 

[Spohawks]

Just keep Hurtt, I want to watch a fresh group of players who aren't coached well.

 

[RiverDog]

He helped make Wilson look like a first ballot HOF. He has helped make a worst QB in the league and career backup look like an MVP candidate. Perhaps his long suit is actually offense.

In comparison to the defensive units he's put out over the past 6 years or so, you may not be too far from the truth.

 

[Bear-Hawk]

Adding on to this, The Seahawks haven't drafted well on defense for 5 straight seasons. 17, 18, 19, 20, 21. 22 is too early to tell yet.

Seahawks ranked 11th in scoring defense in 2021. This year, they dropped 20 spots to 31st. Granted, losing Adams explains some of it, but what else is going on? It is uncommon for a defense to drop that far, that fast.

 

[GemCity]

A couple of bad draft picks, FA releases and players not living up to their potential and…here you are.

You can’t really “scheme” for that.

Maybe PC has fallen off? Maybe not. We know he can put together a defense as we’ve seen it.

I know many folks are screaming QB in next years draft, but I’m hoping our first four picks are D-line and LB.

IF you needed proof as to where our priorities should lie, look no further than this season.

 

[evergreen]

What’s going on is deadcap $$. We are eating $40 million from Wilson and Wagner. Plus no Adams $17 million. Those resources could drastically change our level of talent on D and next year they will with all our draft capital. The Adams trade just keeps on biting tho.

 

[Seattle Person]

Usually coaches turned out this way as they didn't have the athleticism or ability in the pro's, but understood mentally what was supposed to happen scheme-wise. I'm not sure I'd lump Aaron Curry in this, if anything he's the complete opposite.

But you don't know that...He's still a pro coach. That means he can coach something well and teach other players. You don't become a pro coach just based on merit. I guarantee you anything coach will put any of us in our places in terms of knowledge.

I have no problems you questioning Curry as a coach. The LBs don't seem to know their roles and what they're doing. Fine. Do that. No need to say he's bad because he was a failed player. That has nothing to do with how he's coaching the players. Just focus on the play and how players are learning/progressing.

 

[Bear-Hawk]

What’s going on is deadcap $$. We are eating $40 million from Wilson and Wagner. Plus no Adams $17 million. Those resources could drastically change our level of talent on D and next year they will with all our draft capital. The Adams trade just keeps on biting tho.

What’s going on is deadcap $$. We are eating $40 million from Wilson and Wagner. Plus no Adams $17 million. Those resources could drastically change our level of talent on D and next year they will with all our draft capital. The Adams trade just keeps on biting tho.

Good point. Not having Wagner to plug holes explains a lot of why the run defense has gone to hell.

Poles did the same on larger scale — $65 million dead cap. I can see Bears and Seahawks in a bidding war for a free agent center and edge rusher to replace Quinn in 2023.

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

Reading some of the comments, you'd think that Pete was hired last February and that he gets a free pass for the first couple of years while we rebuild the team.

Reading some of the comments, you'd think that Pete hasn't guided the Seahawks to be in the top five of winning franchises in the whole league over the past ten years.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-regular-season-nfl-wins-last-10-years

It's funny how some people have such a quick trigger to want a new coach who they believe will find immediate and lasting success at any sign of poor performance on a game by game basis in the now.

Considering the mental, physical, and financial limitations that continued getting worse the longer the former quarterback was here, is it so unreasonable to allow the process to work through a great deal of transition, now that we've been freed of the financial burden of the former QBs contract, even more so next year? Coupled with the draft capital and the players gained, it seems reasonable to let things play out without having such a myopic all-things-are-horrible perspective.

If the defense continues to drastically underperform (mostly big play mistakes) throughout season then complaining about the underachievement would be much more reasonable.

The former quarterback was mentally and emotionally finished with Seattle long before he injured his finger. I didn't believe that at the time, but I think it's easy to see now that we have some distance.

His consecutive game starting streak being broken due to his finger injury was simply the final straw for Russell to completely check out as a leader in Seattle.

I think these opinions of wanting Pete gone come down to short attention spans and lack of respect or patience for someone who built a culture of success in Seattle.

In a heavy transition year, the Seahawks are still highly competitive, even as there are many fluctuations and growing pains. What's not to like?

It's funny how easy it is to complain. It won't surprise me in the future when the change some people are asking for ends with the Seahawks being much lower on a wins over time metric. The possibility of failing to get into the playoffs for long stretches will go up as a new successful culture will need to be rebuilt with the major change likely to occur.

For this year, I have high hopes for what the defense will look like by the end of the season. It isn't much of a surprise when a team has challenges within the season. Statistically speaking, but for a few examples, teams never go through a season without challenges.

How teams handle the challenges they are certain to face in the season is much more critical to success. I am thankful the team has a winning culture that will benefit the players, coaches, and organization to find the success most of us want.