QB countdown w/Russ ESPN coming up

[Sarlacc83]

Switch their defenses and imagine the result

Our defense would have given up a lot more points because of the bad field position they'd be constantly put in.

Does Russell Wilson turn the ball over a lot?
I want you opinion on how you think luck would do, with a better D, hence more Time of Possession. And not need the comebacks.

So, it's pretty clear even though you act like a Seahawks fan, you really aren't one at this point, because you'd know the answer to your first question is NO.

And I've already given you my opinion. Luck would turn the ball over to the opposing team and put our defense back on the field in bad position which usually leads to more points. This isn't rocket science.

 

[NinerBuff]

That was always the Alex Smith argument. You're not contending that Wilson is a game manager, are you?

Wow. I can't believe you got me, there. I totally wasn't pointing out that Luck's nearly 2 turnover rate a game was bad for his team, and as such, I'd prefer to have Wilson dink and dunk.

Oh, wait, that's right, Wilson had a better YPA AND far fewer turnovers, making him a far greater asset to the team than Luck would have been. You can't seriously be that dense.

It must really chap your *ss that Wilson doesn't get the same amount of love from just about everywhere else in the country then. Wilson's obviously surperior in every facet of the game... you guys should be fine in INDY, no big deal :|

 

[NFL_Football2013]

i don't claim to be a seahawks fan, i thought my username might give that away (it isnt rocket science). I am just here to provoke thought. I don't troll.


How do you think Wilson would do in Indy with teams having to key on Donald Brown or Vick Ballard?
and refresh your luck stance with him having Harvin, Rice and Lynch?

 

[Sarlacc83]

That was always the Alex Smith argument. You're not contending that Wilson is a game manager, are you?

Wow. I can't believe you got me, there. I totally wasn't pointing out that Luck's nearly 2 turnover rate a game was bad for his team, and as such, I'd prefer to have Wilson dink and dunk.

Oh, wait, that's right, Wilson had a better YPA AND far fewer turnovers, making him a far greater asset to the team than Luck would have been. You can't seriously be that dense.

It must really chap your *ss that Wilson doesn't get the same amount of love from just about everywhere else in the country then. Wilson's obviously surperior in every facet of the game... you guys should be fine in INDY, no big deal :|

It doesn't. It's intentionally dense arguments that do.

Also, I'm willing to bet Indianapolis doesn't even make the playoffs next year. And I do think we're going to be fine at Indy. I expect Sherman and Thomas to have a couple INTs. I don't think Luck's a bad QB. I do think he's reaping the rewards of the NFL Manning 2.0 anointing without anyone really breaking down his game, but his easy schedule last year is going to get him exposed more this year, especially against a defense like ours. (And probably against the 49ers, as well, though I hope you guys lose that game, of course.)

 

[NFL_Football2013]

It doesn't. It's intentionally dense arguments that do.

Also, I'm willing to bet Indianapolis doesn't even make the playoffs next year. And I do think we're going to be fine at Indy. I expect Sherman and Thomas to have a couple INTs. I don't think Luck's a bad QB. I do think he's reaping the rewards of the NFL Manning 2.0 anointing without anyone really breaking down his game, but his easy schedule last year is going to get him exposed more this year, especially against a defense like ours. (And probably against the 49ers, as well, though I hope you guys lose that game, of course.)

Do you work in football or have access to coaches film? Are you a scout/former scout? Have you broken down his game beyond the stat sheet?

 

[Sarlacc83]

i don't claim to be a seahawks fan, i thought my username might give that away (it isnt rocket science). I am just here to provoke thought. I don't troll.


How do you think Wilson would do in Indy with teams having to key on Donald Brown or Vick Ballard?
and refresh your luck stance with him having Harvin, Rice and Lynch?

You've used the term 'our' when talking about Seattle players on a number of occasions. So you've made overt indications of trying to be a Seahawks fan. Don't give me that.

I have no idea how Wilson would do in Indy. I'm quite sure he would have been successful because it seems like the Indy receivers were pretty good. (Who cares about the RBs)

Luck wouldn't have had Harvin. He might have completed a few more deep balls to Tate or Rice, but probably not because Carroll wouldn't let him gunsling it like he did in Indy. In fact, I bet after a few stupid mistakes he'd have put the leash on Luck even more tightly (for better or worse) and we'd have lost a few more games because of it.

Do you work in football or have access to coaches film? Are you a scout/former scout? Have you broken down his game beyond the stat sheet?

No my responsibility to break down his game to the details, because I'm not the one on a national network anointing him as the next big thing and slobbering over CLUTCH wins while avoiding the reality that he's error prone. (Which is what I mean by breaking it down.)

 

[NinerBuff]

It doesn't. It's intentionally dense arguments that do.

Also, I'm willing to bet Indianapolis doesn't even make the playoffs next year. And I do think we're going to be fine at Indy. I expect Sherman and Thomas to have a couple INTs. I don't think Luck's a bad QB. I do think he's reaping the rewards of the NFL Manning 2.0 anointing without anyone really breaking down his game, but his easy schedule lack year is going to get exposed, especially against a defense like ours.

fair enough, in a vacuum, coming from a 2-14 team and producing:

54.1% Comp. 4374 yds, 6.98 yd/att, 23 TDs, 18 INTs, 255 yds rushing, 5 TDs

is a really good season, especially with 7 game winning drives as a rookie. I agree that Wilsons stats are superior, but he was counted on significantly less, due to Lynch's prowess and their defense.

Now, they did have a very easy schedule, one that won't be repeated as they now have to deal with actual playoff teams week in/out. But who else in the AFC would take their spot?

HOU, NE, DEN all seem like locks in the AFC, but then there's a lot of mediocre teams... I would be surprised if the Colts don't make the playoffs (unless Luck gets injured).

 

[QuickLightning]

Kaep is overrated. By everyone, everywhere. His frame is brittle, and defenses are going to have him well covered this year.

I say he suffers one of the most notable sophomore slumps seen in recent years.

There, I said it.

When my kids say they have a problem with one other kid down the street I pretty much think it is the other kid that is the problem. When my kids say they have a problem with every single kid on the street then I think my kid is the problem....

So when everyone is overrating Kaep I think it may be just barely possible that you are under-rating him.........

Great analogy.

 

[Sarlacc83]

It doesn't. It's intentionally dense arguments that do.

Also, I'm willing to bet Indianapolis doesn't even make the playoffs next year. And I do think we're going to be fine at Indy. I expect Sherman and Thomas to have a couple INTs. I don't think Luck's a bad QB. I do think he's reaping the rewards of the NFL Manning 2.0 anointing without anyone really breaking down his game, but his easy schedule lack year is going to get exposed, especially against a defense like ours.

fair enough, in a vacuum, coming from a 2-14 team and producing:

54.1% Comp. 4374 yds, 6.98 yd/att, 23 TDs, 18 INTs, 255 yds rushing, 5 TDs

is a really good season, especially with 7 game winning drives as a rookie. I agree that Wilsons stats are superior, but he was counted on significantly less, due to Lynch's prowess and their defense.

Now, they did have a very easy schedule, one that won't be repeated as they now have to deal with actual playoff teams week in/out. But who else in the AFC would take their spot?

HOU, NE, DEN all seem like locks in the AFC, but then there's a lot of mediocre teams... I would be surprised if the Colts don't make the playoffs (unless Luck gets injured).

The last point is fair. I think we can agree that Houston is more likely to win the AFC South, so that means we're looking at wild cards right now. Figure the Bengals and the Ravens are going to be in contention, and probably the *boo* Stealers. I can't believe I'm going to say this, but the Chiefs might well be up there even with Andy Reid eventually underutilizing Jamaal Charles (if he stays healthy).

Will get to my eventual point in a second:

Colts start off the season against the Raiders, so that's probably a win. They have Dolphins, @49ers, @Jaguars up next. I can see the Colts losing 2 in a row against the 'Phins (because of the Phins tough defense) and then against the '9ers, then following it up with a win against a bad Jaguars team. (2-2)

Seahawks, @Chargers, Broncos (bye) @Texans. This looks like a 1-3 stretch to me at best. I can see them losing every game, but I don't know how good the Chargers are going to be. Still it's an away game, but I'll take 1-3 here. (3-5 at this point)

Rams, Titans, @Cards, @Titans. Think they go 2-2 here. (5-7)

@Bengals, Texans, @Chiefs, Jaguars. Another 2-2 puts them at 7-9.

So, with the other potential contenders listed above, I don't think 7-9 gets them in, and if they go through that 0-4 stretch above, then 6-10 definitely won't.

 

[NinerBuff]

The last point is fair. I think we can agree that Houston is more likely to win the AFC South, so that means we're looking at wild cards right now. Figure the Bengals and the Ravens are going to be in contention, and probably the *boo* Stealers. I can't believe I'm going to say this, but the Chiefs might well be up there even with Andy Reid eventually underutilizing Jamaal Charles (if he stays healthy).

Will get to my eventual point in a second:

Colts start off the season against the Raiders, so that's probably a win. They have Dolphins, @49ers, @Jaguars up next. I can see the Colts losing 2 in a row against the 'Phins (because of the Phins tough defense) and then against the '9ers, then following it up with a win against a bad Jaguars team. (2-2)

Seahawks, @Chargers, Broncos (bye) @Texans. This looks like a 1-3 stretch to me at best. I can see them losing every game, but I don't know how good the Chargers are going to be. Still it's an away game, but I'll take 1-3 here. (3-5 at this point)

Rams, Titans, @Cards, @Titans. Think they go 2-2 here. (5-7)

@Bengals, Texans, @Chiefs, Jaguars. Another 2-2 puts them at 7-9.

So, with the other potential contenders listed above, I don't think 7-9 gets them in, and if they go through that 0-4 stretch above, then 6-10 definitely won't.

I realize we're kinda going down a rabbit hole here, so ill bring it back on topic...

I think it's pretty obvious that there's bias for Wilson on this board, bias for Kaep on our boards (specifically WebZone) and I'm sure bias for INDY boards, as well as RGIII love in DC... nothing at this point is given, other than all 4 teams made the playoffs and all 4 QBs should become the next generation of Brady / Brees / Manning. Picking one of the guys is silly, they're all really good. The reason they've won championships are the intangibles and luck (not the QB ).

I think any of the Kaep / Wilson / Luck / RGIII as well as Tannehill could win a championship, given the right circumstances.

Another point to consider... not all INTS are the same... a deep INT on 3rd and long isn't a killer where as an INT in the redzone is, so just looking at INTS is a bit misleading, instead, looking at points off turnovers is better, but unfortunately, those stats are harder to find.

 

[NFL_Football2013]

Whew sorry i was gone so long
i went through all my posts, i have always been neutral. Never Used the words OUR or made any kind of claim to Seattle to being my team, or made any allusions to it.

So again, if you all just want to heap praise on players you knos and trash others for PERCIEVED weaknesses and how their stat sheet looks, ok then

 

[Sarlacc83]

Another point to consider... not all INTS are the same... a deep INT on 3rd and long isn't a killer where as an INT in the redzone is, so just looking at INTS is a bit misleading, instead, looking at points off turnovers is better, but unfortunately, those stats are harder to find.

[/quote]

If anyone wants to volunteer to look at the ESPN play by plays to get the turnovers and the points after, I'm working through Luck's right now. I can take Wilson, too.

 

[NinerBuff]

Another point to consider... not all INTS are the same... a deep INT on 3rd and long isn't a killer where as an INT in the redzone is, so just looking at INTS is a bit misleading, instead, looking at points off turnovers is better, but unfortunately, those stats are harder to find.

If anyone wants to volunteer to look at the ESPN play by plays to get the turnovers and the points after, I'm working through Luck's right now. I can take Wilson, too.[/quote]

Good luck (no pun intended)

 

[TaterHawk]

I don't think Kaep will be in the conversation with these QB's for very long.

 

[NinerBuff]

I don't think Kaep will be in the conversation with these QB's for very long.

I'll take the bait, why exactly?

He doesn't get hit very often, he's a workout fiend, he studies non-stop, he's big, he's fast, he's got good deep ball accuracy, good arm, intelligent...

 

[NFL_Football2013]

I don't think Kaep will be in the conversation with these QB's for very long.

I dont think RGIII will be, because he has already shown to be more injury prone and not as judicious with his avoiding of big hits.

Please explain why you you dont think Kaep will be in the convo long

 

[TaterHawk]

He is very athletic and surrounded by one of the best teams in the NFL, successful because of it. Intelligent? No he is not

He may mature, and if surrounded by good handlers (babysitters) he could ride this train for a while. But of the 4 I'd not bet the farm on Kaep's future.

You asked

 

[NFL_Football2013]

He is very athletic and surrounded by one of the best teams in the NFL, successful because of it. Intelligent? No he is not

He may mature, and if surrounded by good handlers (babysitters) he could ride this train for a while. But of the 4 I'd not bet the farm on Kaep's future.

You asked

Can't you use the same reasoning against Wilson? Very athletic, surrounded by on the best teams in the NFL

How can you say kaep isnt intelligent? 4.0 in HS, Graduated from college, scored 37 to russell wilson's 28.
please prove how he isnt intelligent

 

[hawker84]

LOL, He may act like a bafoon at times, but unintelligent? Kap is not... Come on we can do better than this....

 

[NinerBuff]

He is very athletic and surrounded by one of the best teams in the NFL, successful because of it. Intelligent? No he is not

He may mature, and if surrounded by good handlers (babysitters) he could ride this train for a while. But of the 4 I'd not bet the farm on Kaep's future.

You asked

Not intelligent... hmmm that's a first:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/ ... 19641.html

The 8-second video clip never does Kaepernick justice. His game isn't rooted in pure athleticism.

"He's a coach on the field," said Kaepernick's offensive coordinator in high school, Brandon Harris. "That was exactly him. Don't let the tattoos and everything fool you. This guy's an intellectual."

Drooling over Kaepernick's physical tools somewhat cheapens the product. There's substance beneath the style. Arguably his best attribute is smarts. Watching film this week, the Packers see a 25-year-old progressing through one, two, three reads before making a decision. They see a quarterback who scored a remarkable 37 on his Wonderlic test and earned a 3.5 grade-point average in college at Nevada.

Seven starts into his career, Kaepernick is "before his time," Packers cornerback Tramon Williams said.

"His reads," Williams said. "Most quarterbacks in their first year, it's hard to get out of their first read. For him to get to his second and third read, that's impressive for a guy who didn't start off as the starter."

In a strange twist of irony, a Packers quarterback who grew up watching Joe Montana and a 49ers quarterback who grew up watching Brett Favre clash in the NFC divisional playoffs Saturday night.

Kaepernick has strong Wisconsin roots. He was born in Milwaukee and lived in Fond du Lac before moving to California at 4 years old. Kaepernick still has plenty of family in Wisconsin. As a child, the Packers remained his favorite team. Each Sunday, Kaepernick watched Favre.

"He was just a playmaker," Kaepernick said. "He wasn't afraid to take chances. He was passionate about the game and he was going to do anything he could to help his team win."

He may be a huge Favre fan, but don't jump to conclusions. Kaepernick isn't quite the daredevil. In addition to his 415 rushing yards and five scores this season, Kaepernick was 136 of 218 (62.4%) for 1,814 passing yards with 10 touchdowns and only three interceptions.

His 1.38% interception rate isn't very Favre-like (3.3%).

For 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh to sit Smith - the overall No. 1 pick in 2005, the proven commodity, the one who led San Francisco to the NFC Championship Game last season - he needed to trust Kaepernick. So far, the quarterback has delivered. There's deep thought behind the highlights. Athleticism and arm strength can be useless without decision-making.

In a win against Arizona , Kaepernick looked right, pump-faked, looked left briefly and then gunned a 27-yard deep post to tight end Delanie Walker. Against New England, when the deep middle safety cheated inside, Kaepernick struck. He knew he had an open Randy Moss for a 24-yard touchdown.

Kaepernick's 8.32 yards per pass attempt ranks first in the league.

Packers defensive coordinator Dom Capers has confused first- and second-year quarterbacks in the past. Kaepernick's football IQ will be most important in this one.

"He studies the game. He's unbelievable," said Harris, who coached Kaepernick at Pittman High (Calif.). "A lot of the reasons he's making those throws downfield is that he's getting the 'Niners in the right plays."

Wonderlic: 37 (Wilson: 28)
High School GPA: 4.3
U of N GPA: 4.0

hmmm not intelligent...

... I'll admit, his OCD with clothing / color schemes, and obviously shouldn't have worn the dolphins hat, but still...