Q&A with Saints Fans/Seahawks-Saints Game Preview ...

[The Radish]

Only one thread to talk trash in?

No,,,if you want to talk trash go to the smack shack.

 

[citysaint]

Here's an overlooked battle for the trenches. Bunkley our NT vs Unger. I think the success or failure of the running game between the guards will be critical to who wins this game. This is going to be a battle. Both guys are technicians. Both guys are cock strong. I give the edge to Bunkley because he is built like a tank , it just seems in terms of leverage a6'1 Bunkley will have an easier time getting under Ungers pads at 6'5. You guys have to run the ball successfully and keep the ball out of Drew's hands. Trying to outshoot Brees is a disaster in the making.

 

[chris98251]

Here's an overlooked battle for the trenches. Bunkley our NT vs Unger. I think the success or failure of the running game between the guards will be critical to who wins this game. This is going to be a battle. Both guys are technicians. Both guys are cock strong. I give the edge to Bunkley because he is built like a tank , it just seems in terms of leverage a6'1 Bunkley will have an easier time getting under Ungers pads at 6'5. You guys have to run the ball successfully and keep the ball out of Drew's hands. Trying to outshoot Brees is a disaster in the making.

I would refer to where we run, we know teams stack the box on us, the read option sprint draw type plays through gaurd and tackle spots where we can hand off or Wilson keep it will spread out your defense making you cover more ground. I don't worry about a NT trying to catch a RB or Wilson, Unger will use his aggression against him to seal off not only him but the persuit behind him by making a wal they have to run around, basically using your NT as another blocker that benefits us.

 

[starbuck2907]

The only time that I've ever seen Jimmy Graham really contained was when we played the Pats. Belichick put some some huge guy that was nearly Jimmy's size on him and jammed him real hard at the line. Before Jimmy was able to really find a way past that guy, he hurt his foot.

The good thing about that game though was that it forced Brees to get used to playing without Graham. I think Drew sometimes has a tendency to rely on Graham when no one else is open, and while I do not like that Jimmy got hurt, I think it was good for the team that Drew was forced to play without him for a while. More than anyone else, I feel like I've seen Drew try to force throws to Jimmy on 3rd and long when there is no open receiver. Drew and Jimmy complete those passes a lot, but they are also risky.

Colston is a beast. Stills appears to be coming on strong for a young guy. I think, the reason that our receivers did not seem to doing as well as normal earlier in the season is because our offensive line was having trouble. The Bucs signed away guard Carl Nicks, and the Bears signed our Offensive Line coach (Aaron Kromer) and Jerome Bushrod (left tackle). So basically, our O-line had trouble the first half of this year and our running game suffered some, and Drew didn't have time to let long routes develop, so our receivers weren't getting quite as many yards. There was a lot of short passing game to people like Jimmy Graham, screen passes, check-downs, etc. We went to the bye week, and mysteriously, it seems like our O-line has played much better since then. As a result, the passing game and the running game have improved greatly. For a while, I really thought we were going to have trouble this season because of the O-line, but like I said, it seems to have greatly improved over the last few weeks. As a result, our whole game as improved.

 

[plyka]

Hey Saint's fans,

I'm curious to know what the majority opinion of Jimmy Graham was in his rookie year. I know he really didn't do much until the end of the season but did you guys see his emergence coming or did it catch you by surprise?

Reason I am curious because we have a similar TE prospect (not just because he's white) in Luke Willson that is coming up slow but starting to show more promise as the year goes on. I think we all hope he can eventually turn into that "Jimmy Graham TE" that most teams covet now a days.

I don't think graham is white and they don't look anything alike playing wise, in my opinion. Willson has speed but you can just see the natural difference in talent. Graham is a steal and everyone saw his talent from the get go including his coach and QB. One of my greatest pickups in fantasy was graham in his 2nd year in my keeper league. Not only did I see the talent but his coach and QB were saying this kid is special. They made the special comment over and over in his rookie season when he saw some playing time. Tell you the truth I don't see anything even close with Willson.

 

[bigbrod81]

The only time that I've ever seen Jimmy Graham really contained was when we played the Pats. Belichick put some some huge guy that was nearly Jimmy's size on him and jammed him real hard at the line. Before Jimmy was able to really find a way past that guy, he hurt his foot.

Aqib Talib isn't anywhere near the same size as Graham. Talib is 6'1 205 lbs while Graham is 6'6 265 lbs. The rest of your post is correct though. Talib played Graham as physical as I've seen any defender play Graham.

 

[Hawkscanner]

Fantastic wealth of responses all. This is exactly what I was looking for when I envisioned this thread. Keep it up.

Here's an overlooked battle for the trenches. Bunkley our NT vs Unger. I think the success or failure of the running game between the guards will be critical to who wins this game. This is going to be a battle. Both guys are technicians. Both guys are cock strong. I give the edge to Bunkley because he is built like a tank , it just seems in terms of leverage a6'1 Bunkley will have an easier time getting under Ungers pads at 6'5. You guys have to run the ball successfully and keep the ball out of Drew's hands. Trying to outshoot Brees is a disaster in the making.

That's an interesting matchup for sure, but I would tend to concur with what Chris98521 is saying. Keep in mind that Unger was the NFC's starter in the Pro Bowl last season (he was the one who was originally voted in, not one who was some alternate because the original vote getter didn't want to go).

Same thing with Russell Okung (voted last year as the NFC's Starting LT in the Pro Bowl). Up until last game, we've missed both of those guys for most of the season along with starting RT Breno Giacomini. So, things haven't really clicked truly yet as far as the offense is concerned. The Bye couldn't have come at a more perfect time for the Seahawks, as those guys will be that much healthier and by the time we kick off will have had that much more time to work out kinks/rustiness. It goes without saying that Seattle WILL try to run the ball. Carroll is all about ball control offense and chewing up the clock. Now how effective will be they? Who knows. I do know this though ... history has shown that if you shut the run down, Russell Wilson is more than capable of throwing the rock. So, we might ultimately see a shootout in this one. It'll certainly be interesting.

 

[Hawkscanner]

The only time that I've ever seen Jimmy Graham really contained was when we played the Pats. Belichick put some some huge guy that was nearly Jimmy's size on him and jammed him real hard at the line. Before Jimmy was able to really find a way past that guy, he hurt his foot.

The good thing about that game though was that it forced Brees to get used to playing without Graham. I think Drew sometimes has a tendency to rely on Graham when no one else is open, and while I do not like that Jimmy got hurt, I think it was good for the team that Drew was forced to play without him for a while. More than anyone else, I feel like I've seen Drew try to force throws to Jimmy on 3rd and long when there is no open receiver. Drew and Jimmy complete those passes a lot, but they are also risky.

Now that's interesting. As far as Seattle's defense is concerned, they will probably match up pretty well. Primarily, this is a Bump and Run Man to Man team. They have run some zone recently (and are fairly mediocre at it IMO), but by in large, this is a defense that is as tough, physical, gritty, and nasty as they come. Last year, Pete Carroll gave a very interesting interview on 710 ESPN in which he talked about his younger years of being influenced by watching those Raiders teams of the 1970s. His ideas about defensive backs (and what they should look like) were heavily shaped by watching guys like Jack Tatum, George Atkinson, and others -- punishing big hitting guys -- which he has (in essence) recreated with the Seahawks. They love to jam receivers at the line of scrimmage, which is why they will bring in guys like Byron Maxwell and Jeremy Lane (reserve guys who all fit that same mold of the physical scrappy DB's who play in your face football).

Now, since Browner's injury especially, I've seen a lot more zone coverage (which I'm not entirely sure Quinn wants to run). Perhaps with the extra added week we'll see a lot more of that. If Graham is vulnerable when he is jammed at the LOS, you can bet the Seahawks coaching staff has noted that and will probably look to do just that.

If as you're saying Brees has a tendency to rely heavily on Graham and to force the ball (even if he's covered) that could play right in to the Seahawks hands because that secondary is the strength of our defense. Throwing the ball deep on a 3rd and Long, you're liable to get that pass picked off by Earl Thomas, who I would say (and I'm not saying this as a homer) is the best Free Safety in the league. You'll see what I mean on Monday Night, as he has great instincts, elite speed, and can really anticipate and close on the football in a hurry. It's that ability of Thomas's to close very quickly that allows Seattle to play a lot of 1 High Safety (which Thomas does a great job at). Watch for that guys, as he has picked of many a pass this year with QB's who should have just thrown the ball away and didn't.

As an in general note, this Seahawks coaching staff has a truly remarkable ability to game plan. Honestly, they're one of the very best I've ever seen at it ... and definitely the best in the history of Seahawks Football for sure. Now I loved Mike Holmgren (and still do) in so many ways ... but God love him, he wasn't very good at adapting to what other teams were trying to do to him IMO. He used to script the first 15 plays or so at the beginning of the game ... and those would often work to perfection. The Hawks under Holmgren (in general) used to get out to leads early ... only to watch teams come back on them in the 2nd Half. That happened again and again, as games always seemed to turn in to nail biters. Pete Carroll's coaching staff -- totally different. If a team has success against them, it's early. They have a remarkable ability (almost uncanny) to figure out what a team is doing against them on the fly during the game ... and to adjust accordingly. Holmgren could never do that, as if a team got up on us early, it was generally over. These guys even if they're down by 20 Points at Half ... generally tend to figure out what a team is doing and adjusts (usually stunningly well). In fact, I did a study earlier this year in which I compared 1st Half Point Totals to 2nd Half Point Totals (both for the Seahawks and their opponents). The data showed exactly that -- that the Seahawks had more points in the 2nd Half, while their opponents had far less than the 1st Half. I have a very good friend who's a long time very passionate USC Fan. I ran this by him and he agreed that this seemed to be a Pete Carroll trait, as he saw time and time again over a 10 year period these kinds of in game adjustments and amazing comebacks.

Another interesting tidbit regarding game planning is that Carroll's staff will use various defensive schemes and fronts that vary from game to game. They use 3 main fronts -- a 4-3 Over, a 4-3 Under, and what they term a 3-4 Bear Front ... and they will also create nuances based upon situation and opponent. Field Gulls did a great write up on these earlier this year. It's a great article if you get the chance, as it's got nice photo shots that really illustrate the various looks. Anyway, the short of it is that the Hawks DO tend to scheme against and attack perceived weaknesses. And if/when you see the Hawks next time ... what worked last time isn't necessarily going to work THIS time, as you may see a whole different look.

 

[Hawkscanner]

OK Saints Fans, got another big question for you. And I'll set it up by giving you a little context here.

As I mentioned earlier back on page 1, Russell Wilson has an incredible ability to throw OUTSIDE the pocket on the run. Here is Greg Cossell's post that I referenced earlier that shows where Russell Wilson ranked among some of the other QB's out there in terms of Outside the Pocket Ability last season ...
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/85661/cosells-thoughts-plus-qb-pocket-stats

That ability to scramble and create on the fly, frankly, is quite a nightmare for opposing defensive coordinators because it creates a heck of a dilemma. Russell Wilson is a great pocket passer, so if you don't blitz him obviously, he's going to sit back there and pick you apart. If you make it a point to blitz him however, he gets outside the tackles and will either complete a long pass downfield (he is a stunningly accurate passer on the run) OR will beat you with his legs.

So in essence, D Coordinators are often faced with a "Damned it you do ... Damned if you don't" choice on how exactly to defense this guy.

Now I've been doing a lot of research, trying to figure out Drew Brees -- his strengths, weaknesses, etc. So here's my question, "What kind of a passer is Drew Brees outside the pocket? Does he have that same kind of ability that Russell Wilson has?"

 

[FT98(GO SAINTS)]

Brees is a solid passer outside the pocket, he has the ability to make the guy miss and stop and throw.

 

[davidonmi]

just want to get a saints fan perspective on this. A lot of people talk about how you guys aren't the same team on the road as you are at home (I get annoyed when people say that about us) do u guys think that's overblown?

 

[Laloosh]

I'd just like to get a Saints fan's perspective on this:

 

[starbuck2907]

Above, about the Brees/Graham thing.

I've seen Drew make a couple of forced throws to Jimmy this year, but generally speaking, not very many. It seems like we've been VERY conscious of turnovers this year. I think that's because last year when the team was riding on Drew's shoulders and we had no coach (or real running game) or defense, he had to do it all himself which resulted in more forced/bad passes. So, generally, I don't think we'll see a lot of forced passes to Jimmy because they've been much improved in that area this year...although, I think a 49ers defender did get a tipped balled (and maybe an interception?) on a tipped pass to Jimmy that Drew threw on a 3rd and long or something like that. I'm not sure if I'm remembering correctly or not, but it seems like something like that happened.

Jimmy, I have no idea what was going on at the Pats game. Every team tries to stick him at the line, but it's usually not that effective. I just chalked it up to Belichick's game plan and coaching being superior to everyone else that we had played.

edit: The "we are a different team on the road" thing is both true and false. We don't put up nearly as many points on the road, but we still have one of the highest percentages of road wins in the league since 2009 (if not THE highest percentage of road wins of any team). Of course, if you really look closer at those stats, we have not done nearly as well when two factors are at play: 1) the other team has a winning record (like you guys) and 2) the stadium is outdoors. Here is a writeup about our road game that you guys might find very interesting. http://www.canalstreetchronicles.com/20 ... aints-fans I still think we beat you guys, but I think it will be tough.

 

[jhawk91]

The whole "we have the best win percentage on the road since 09" crap from saints fans is getting old quick. What does your road record from last year or any other prior to THIS YEAR have to do with anything? Every year is different from the next and this year the saints are a different team at home then they are on the road. This being a home game gives me confidence that the Hawks will beat the Saints, not only does the crowd factor in but the team feeds from their energy and you can bet there will be plenty of that.

 

[Hawkscanner]

Brees is a solid passer outside the pocket, he has the ability to make the guy miss and stop and throw.

Well, when I'm talking about throwing Outside the Pocket on the run, I literally mean on the run. For example, this was an eye popping play that Wilson made earlier this year.
http://www.seahawks.com/videos-phot...ouchdown/cebcec8f-2517-425c-90cc-ed24b8d586ef

You say that Brees stops and throws. Have you seen Brees make these kinds on plays on the move? It wouldn't surprise me at all if the answer was Yes. It will sure be interesting to see how each team plays against a mirror image of their own QB (but then again, each team's defense does that every day in practice). Anyway, back to my question for clarification -- does Brees make plays on the run like that where he doesn't have to stop and set himself before he throws? This is the kind of stuff we see out of Wilson all the time that makes him so dangerous.

 

[Geaux]

The whole "we have the best win percentage on the road since 09" crap from saints fans is getting old quick. What does your road record from last year or any other prior to THIS YEAR have to do with anything? Every year is different from the next and this year the saints are a different team at home then they are on the road. This being a home game gives me confidence that the Hawks will beat the Saints, not only does the crowd factor in but the team feeds from their energy and you can bet there will be plenty of that.

Similarly, we're sick of hearing about how we're going to get blown out because our game with the falcons (Our biggest rivals) was a close one (like it always is).

 

[Hawkscanner]

Alright Jhawk91, I'm going to play Dad here for a second and really caution you to try to really pay attention to your tone and the words you use. I started this thread specifically with the idea of this being a highly respectful discourse between our 2 fanbases. The word "crap" doesn't tend to set a good tone, LOL, OK? It's these kinds of things that can start a train going off the track ... and start getting threads that have began off so well derailed. Think about your first gut reaction instinct and how you'd feel and react if someone said the exact same kind of thing about the Seahawks. You can disagree with a sentiment or with something that's said obviously -- just find a more PC way to word it.

Anyhoo (slipping back in to poster mode) ... on the subject of the Saints Home vs. Road Record, I found that article that starbuck2907 shared there to be particularly interesting. Of course the stat from that article that the writer shared that was notable was this ...

Saints are 3-7 outdoors on the road against teams with a winning record since 2006. The three wins came in Seattle in 2007, in Philly in 2009, and in Tennessee in 2011.

http://www.canalstreetchronicles.com/2013/11/5/5066432/the-lie-we-tell-ourselves-as-saints-fans

Now jhawk91's point is certainly a valid one when it comes to looking at records like this. Team personnel turns over so much that what happened 5 years ago really IMO doesn't have much bearing on the here and now (at least on the Seahawks the personnel tends to turn over fairly quickly). For example, I could cite to you that the Seahawks have a 19-8 all time record on Monday Night Football (a .708 Winning%). That's the highest win% of any team in the NFL since the start of MNF. However, that argument is a bit dubious admittedly, as some of those wins go clear back to the Knox Era. Are you telling me that these Seahawks really and truly think about and know anything about the 1983 Seahawk team? LOL!

Now, a much better stat for these Seahawks would be that since the beginning of the Pete Carroll Era (the start of the 2010 season) the Hawks are 23-7 at home ... and that Russell Wilson is 21-6 in his first 2 years in the league. He has never lost at home obviously. To put what he has done in to perspective for you -- since 1966, only 1 QB in the history of the NFL has had more wins in his first 2 years than Russell Wilson -- Ben Roethlisberger (who has 22). With 5 games to go, I'd say he's obviously going to shatter that record. I don't know if it's going to be against the Saints on Monday Night ... but he's certainly going to break that for sure.

On those road losses that the writer above noted against the Eagles in 2009 and the Titans in 2011 (assuming for a second those losses have any bearing whatsoever on THIS year's Saints, which they probably don't.) -- what factors do you recall led to those road losses? What happened exactly?

 

[citysaint]

Here's an overlooked battle for the trenches. Bunkley our NT vs Unger. I think the success or failure of the running game between the guards will be critical to who wins this game. This is going to be a battle. Both guys are technicians. Both guys are cock strong. I give the edge to Bunkley because he is built like a tank , it just seems in terms of leverage a6'1 Bunkley will have an easier time getting under Ungers pads at 6'5. You guys have to run the ball successfully and keep the ball out of Drew's hands. Trying to outshoot Brees is a disaster in the making.

I would refer to where we run, we know teams stack the box on us, the read option sprint draw type plays through gaurd and tackle spots where we can hand off or Wilson keep it will spread out your defense making you cover more ground. I don't worry about a NT trying to catch a RB or Wilson, Unger will use his aggression against him to seal off not only him but the persuit behind him by making a wal they have to run around, basically using your NT as another blocker that benefits us.

The majority of runs by Seattle like every team is between the Guards. The quickest way between two points is a straight line. Between the guards is Bunkley Territory, if he get's under Ungers pads on a good basis it will blow up most everything up the middle. Fancy formation changes and spreads won't change a thing for Bunkley, he is a nose. The guy will line up right over the Center everytime. Success running the ball starts inside out, if you are getting stonewalled up the middle it's unlikely you will have success outside when things have been rendered one - dimensional there. If you guys can't run the ball you're done.

Wilson is 10/37 on 3rd and long... if we stop the run that will equate to more 3rd and longs and more dead drives for you.

 

[Hawkscanner]

The majority of runs by Seattle like every team is between the Guards. The quickest way between two points is a straight line. Between the guards is Bunkley Territory, if he get's under Ungers pads on a good basis it will blow up most everything up the middle. Fancy formation changes and spreads won't change a thing for Bunkley, he is a nose. The guy will line up right over the Center everytime. Success running the ball starts inside out, if you are getting stonewalled up the middle it's unlikely you will have success outside when things have been rendered one - dimensional there. If you guys can't run the ball you're done.

Wilson is 10/37 on 3rd and long... if we stop the run that will equate to more 3rd and longs and more dead drives for you.

Now it's true that Seattle runs the football more than any team in the NFL (around 55% of the time roughly on average). Respectfully though, Seattle is most certainly NOT done if a team stonewalls the run. That's a myth that seems to be fairly prevalent that somehow Russell Wilson is nothing more than a "game manager" who is totally reliant upon the run in order to set up what he does. In fact, there have been many times when the run has been bottled up that he has put the team on his shoulders, taken over the game, and won. In that sense, he is every bit the creator and play maker in the clutch that Joe Montana, John Elway, or Peyton Manning ever were.

Here are a but few examples that I could think of off the top of my head ...

Seattle-New England (Week 6 Last year) ...
Lynch had only 41 yards (the Patriots made it a point to bottle up the run).
Russell Wilson was 16 for 27, had 293 yards passing, 3TD's, and a QB Rating of 133.7

Seattle-Chicago (Week 13 at Soldier Field Last Year) ...
Lynch had 87 yards rushing (but really the Bears did a good job of taking away the run).
Russell Wilson completed 23 of 37, had 293 yards, 2 TD, and had a QB Rating of 104.9. He also ran for 71 yards as well and basically single handedly took over that game. He led the team on not just 1 ... but TWO game winning drives.

Seattle vs. Atlanta in the Playoffs...
Lynch only had 46 yards rushing (as the Falcons made it a point to shut him down). Russell Wilson completed 24 of 36, threw for 385 Yards, 2TD, and a QB Rating of 109.1

Seattle vs. Carolina (Week 1) ...
A stout Panther defense held Lynch to just 43 yards (as they made a point of shutting down the run).
Wilson completed 25 of 33, threw for 320 Yards, 1 TD, and had a QB Rating of 115.7

Seattle vs. Minnesota (Week 10) ...
Lynch had only 54 yards in this game (again, the Vikings keyed on stopping the run).
Wilson completed 13 of 18, threw for 230 yards, 2 TD, and had a QB Rating of 151.4. Wilson completed passes for 8 different receivers in that game and the only reason his stats weren't any higher was that Seattle yanked him and pretty much all the starters in the 4th Quarter as it was basically a blowout.

Just a few examples for you. I know this -- when the game is on the line and it's under 2 minutes ... there's no one else out there that I personally want as my QB. Time and time again, this guy finds a way to win because of what HE does on the field. I think you'll find that to be the majority opinion among Seahawks fans.

 

[Hawkscanner]

Alright Saints Fans,

I have another couple of questions for you guys (well, one's more a request than anything). Here they are:

1) I know I kind of asked this earlier, but before we go too much further would somebody be willing to give us a breakdown of the Saints Defense. Overviews are good - formations they run, personnel groupings, tendencies, coaching philosophy of defense, etc. Also though, (if someone were willing) I'd love to get an 11 breakdown of each member of the Saints Defense (perhaps strengths of each player and weaknesses that you've seen) as well. [I know that's a HUGE request, but it would be great if someone would be willing.]

2) Here's the question, and it's also kind of a big one, "If you were an opposing defensive coordinator and having to defend against Drew Brees, what would you do? How would you look to limit his effectiveness?"

Looking forward to the responses.