PFF demonstrates Kaepernick folds under pressure as a passer

[RolandDeschain]

Absolut, I toiled away for hours and made you a present. I hope you like it:

 

[AbsolutNET]

The master of the zinger strikes again

 

[HawksFTW]

Is it supposed to be irony that iRo used the wrong meme?

 

[RolandDeschain]

I chose that pic on purpose.

 

[Disp]

Disp, you're comparing two different things, there. We were talking about the differential; the amount of change, in other words, which is the 3rd chart on that article. You're looking at the 2nd chart, which is the QB performance with pressure rating.

The third chart makes this thread look even more pointless. Kaepernick has the the 35'th worst differential, Manning has the 31'st, Brady has the 24'th, and Brees has the 23'rd. The top 10 most consistent includes such awesome quarterbacks as Kevin Kolb, Ryan Tannehill, Nick Foles, Chad Henne, John Skelton, and Blaine Gabbert. So how does the 3'rd chart make this any less irrelevant? Pretty much every good quarterback other than Rodgers has a massive gap in their efficiency between pressured and not pressured.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Who said or even implied that any of the stats on that article were worthwhile, worldly, or all-important?

Geez; protesting too much, IMO.

 

[NinerLifer]

Who said or even implied that any of the stats on that article were worthwhile, worldly, or all-important?

Geez; protesting too much, IMO.

I think he assumed that you did...by making a thread about one.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Oh, so because a thread was made, the topic is of supreme importance. I understand now.

Good to know that even during the height of the off-season, when we're all looking for NFL stuff to talk about, there's no such thing as an unimportant topic for discussion.

 

[themunn]

I think it's very telling that only 2 QBs were under pressure more often than Wilson (61.7% of snaps without pressure) - Vick (58.6%) and Kolb (57.6%).

Both of which have great claims at having the worst O-Line in the league last year.

Even if we just take those just above Wilson in terms of %age snaps without pressure -
Rivers (61.8%), Luck (62.2%), Quinn (62.4%), Cutler (62.7%), Henne (62.8%) and Foles (63%.

All of them play for teams that have terrible O-Lines and only one (Indianpolis) didn't draft O-Line in the first round (though Indy used their 2nd and 3rd picks on O-Line).

It's clear they're still plenty of room for improvement

 

[RolandDeschain]

Our O-line did very well in run blocking, but pass pro was spotty, if we're being kind. I really hope I live to see another Seahawks season where we have the same 5 guys on the O-line for an entire season, without any rotation.

 

[Anonymous]

only Brady Quinn drops more.

Least we still are #1

Shows you how big a drop Wilson to Quinn really would be. It is terrifying.

I say hanging around with Wilson at practices and the film room makes Quinn a better player. Not huge amounts better, just better.

That fateful day comes and Brady takes snaps, I'm comforted by him being surrounded by what will be the best supporting cast that particular clipboard jockey could hope for.

 

[Marvin49]

Yeah...I saw this link on a Niner page before and discussed it a bit.

A couple things....

1) I have alot of respect for PFF, but the numbers don't tell the whole story here. I'm particularly interested in what they consider "under pressure". Alot of that "under pressure" rating has to do with the 0 TDs and 3 INTs. I've gone over all 5 INTs and I really don't think any of them were a result of pressure. They were poor decisions by a young QB and certainly plays where he performed badly, but they only one that looked to me like it could have had to do with the pressure was the INT in Seattle. Even that one tho looked more like he was pressing and it actually highlights what I think is one of his legit issues...Red-zone passing.

2) It also doesn't take his legs into account. I'm not trying to make the "who is better" comparison to Russell Wilson, I'm just trying to illustrate a difference that isn't reflected in the stats. Both QBs are very mobile, but they scramble very differently. RW scrambles all over the place looking to throw downfield. He exhausts the pass rush and DBs by keeping the play alive. All of those plays where he does that can be considered "under pressure". If Kaep is under pressure and he sees green in front...he'll run. He'll take the easy stuff and he'll pick up huge chunks of yardage and not get hit. In the Postseason he scored on 2 plays in which he was pressured (against GB and Balt). Almost 100 yards of his 181 vs GB were scrambles...not designed runs. He'll convert critical 1st downs with his legs. Most QBs can't do this so only talking about what happens when he throws under pressure doesn't tell the whole story of how he PERFORMES under pressure.

3) His ability to move the way he does is also a factor in NOT being pressured. This is true of RW as well. The fear of him escaping slows down the pass rush as they attempt to contain him instead of just rushing him full bore.



I'm not trying to make it out like Kaep has nothing to work on. he does. He's a young QB. The biggest thing IMO that he needs to work on is his red-zone passing. Most of his TDs last year came from outside the 20. He also needs to get better controlling the clock and understand how much time is left when executing all of the shifts and adjustments that the 49ers run pre-snap. This bit them MANY times last year when they took a delay of game or used a timeout they could have used later. Hell...they very likely would have scored a TD on that final SB drive had he gotten the ball off before Harbaugh called a timeout. He had a lane open to the endzone.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Valid points all around, Marvin. I have more respect for Football Outsiders than I do for PFF, though PFF's no slouch.

 

[Shadowhawk]

I think we'll know a lot more once Kaepernick has a whole season under his belt. The stats are interesting but with the small sample size it's difficult to make an accurate comparison between him and other quarterbacks.

 

[kunged]

Welcome to the forum.

Tannehill was -9.9, Luck was -28.2, Wilson was -46.9, and RG3 was -18.3. I don't know about the other QBs, but most of Wilson's drop in that number was in the first 7 games of the season, with the training wheels offense. I'm not so sure about the whole "nothing prepares you for game speed" thing, though...Rodgers sat behind Favre for a while, and started pretty well.

Plus, all of the aforementioned rookies started better than Kaepernick in this regard, and Kaepernick started on a great all-around team after learning for a year-and-a-half. He should have been better than all of the aforementioned, not the worst, for a stat like this.

Thanks.

And nice breakdown for the other QBs, tbh I don't think there is one answer/excuse, likewise I don't feel that it is evidence he will struggle with pressure later on. His sample size is relatively small and I guess 2013 will give a clearer picture.

I will say that the love that the "big four" (Kap, Wilson, RGIII and Luck) are getting is a bit worrying. I sat through a 6 minute segment on NFL network where the three guys were basically saying how great Kap is and will be. I personally don't like that, it just puts a lot of pressure on a young QB and just sets them up to disappoint. You either do well and it's no surprise or you are a letdown.

None of the rookies have a track record of success, no matter how great their first season was. I know I like what I see from Kap (and from an objective POV Wilson too), but I don't think it guarantees success, especially after just one season.

 

[RolandDeschain]

The media slobbering over the rookie class last year got old quickly, I agree.

 

[Marvin49]

The media slobbering over the rookie class last year got old quickly, I agree.

I agree as well. Kaep isn't a member of that rookie class, but he is kinda included in that group of 4 by most of the media.

With the exception of Luck, the other 3 all benefitted from the Pistol and the read-option. The NFL hasn't caught up to them yet.

The pistol isn't going anywhere, but defenses will defend the read-option better than they did last year. Its OK tho because Kaep, RW, and RGIII are all skilled passers and played very well when NOT running the read-option. The 49ers only used it on like 5% of their plays last year (tho that # went up in the playoffs). The Seahawks only like 10% of the time. I dunno the number on RGIII but I'd suspect its higher than both SF and Seattle.

The point is that they all performed well in CONVENTIONAL offenses as well.

Steve Young is a regular on the radio in the Bay Area and he said it best. The Pistol and read-option is a very good introduction to the NFL game. It allows these young passers to succeed early while they learn all the other aspects of being an NFL QB. He is jealous that it didn't exist in the NFL when he was a young player trying to learn the ropes. It will continue to be a staple of these offenses, but it will not be the ENTIRE offense the way some portray it.

It is tho one of the big reason 3 of these 4 guys had so much success so early. Luck is a different animal. He played in a much more prototypical NFL offense and his rookie numbers suffered for it. He still had an outstanding rookie year.

 

[mikeak]

Combine this with his very sub par red zone stats and there is a lot of room to grow for Kaepernick.

But, I also don't think this the biggest of deals, if he never gets better at these two things. He will have a winning career on a good team just the way he is now. He is a matchup problem, pure and simple.

this. Kaepernick could always have issues with pressure and red zone scoring and will still cause headaches for DCs. He's a dual-threat in the most literal sense, appears to have a great arm and has a great coach (puke) putting him in position to win. this rivalry is going to be fantastic for years to come.

You are right. Dual-threat

Glad we got a triple-threat. Pass, Run, Run and pass. Kaep can do the first two. If you pressure him he clearly can't pass so committ to run when you blitz him and you will get to him. He probably will improve but don't say it isn't an issue if he doesn't.

 

[NinerLifer]

Combine this with his very sub par red zone stats and there is a lot of room to grow for Kaepernick.

But, I also don't think this the biggest of deals, if he never gets better at these two things. He will have a winning career on a good team just the way he is now. He is a matchup problem, pure and simple.

this. Kaepernick could always have issues with pressure and red zone scoring and will still cause headaches for DCs. He's a dual-threat in the most literal sense, appears to have a great arm and has a great coach (puke) putting him in position to win. this rivalry is going to be fantastic for years to come.

You are right. Dual-threat

Glad we got a triple-threat. Pass, Run, Run and pass. Kaep can do the first two. If you pressure him he clearly can't pass so committ to run when you blitz him and you will get to him. He probably will improve but don't say it isn't an issue if he doesn't.

Will have to go ahead and STRONGLY disagree with you here. No need to try and convince you of the contrary if watching his games hasnt convinced you already.

Sometimes I think that some of you use what you see in the two games we play eachother each year as your whole basis of analysis.

 

[pinksheets]

Great argument, as always, NinerLifer.