Pete on Lock

Nunya

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Literally learn something new every day. I don't think I have ever seen that word. Thanks!
I wouldn't rely on our resident "Webster". Prevaricate does not mean to "lie". It means to be evasive. A person can be evasive when answering a question without lying.
 

Maelstrom787

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I wouldn't rely on our resident "Webster". Prevaricate does not mean to "lie". It means to be evasive. A person can be evasive when answering a question without lying.
Don't get into this song and dance with John. He one time tried to claim that "iodot" was a real word because Urban Dictionary had an entry on it. True story.
 

Rat

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History is full of QBs that did not do real great at the beginning of their careers, but found above average success. You mention Trent Dilfer. Probably the worth QB to win a SB. Dan Fouts had 5 horrible seasons before finally flourishing. Brad Johnson was a complete washout in Minnesota, but won the SB with TB and was a 2-time pro bowler. Drew Brees had 4 bad seasons in San Diego before becoming a legend in NO. Jim Plunkett was never a great QB, but has 2 SB rings. In fact, this last season we just witnessed a QB that had 12 mediocre seasons with a team only to win the SB in his first season with another team. I think it is foolish to write Lock or Geno off as not being able to get it done. Both have the talent, it is the mistakes that costs them. A good system can minimize those mistakes.

I realize there is no shortage of QBs who needed time to figure it out (Alex Smith is another good example), but there does not seem to be many cases of a QB flaming out with their first team and becoming the answer for another team. You mention Brees, but he was phenomenal in his last season with the Chargers, going 11-4 as the starter and throwing 27 TDs to just 7 INTs. You also mention Brad Johnson, but he was a lot better in Minnesota than Lock was in Denver. In Johnson's 23 starts in his first stint with the Vikings, he went 15-8 with a solid completion percentage and a QB rating in the high 80s. He didn't "washout" in Minnesota as much as Randall Cunningham seized his opportunity when Johnson got hurt and took the starter job. Johnson showed enough that the Vikings were able to trade him for a 1st and 3rd round draft pick, and a future 2nd rounder.

I'm not saying Lock definitely isn't the guy, but history shows that if he does turn it around, he will be a considerable outlier. I hope that happens.
 

RiverDog

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The organization isn’t going to say they are in a rebuild. The word “re-tooling” comes up…

I don’t agree with Pete’s statements but I understand why they’re being made.

Positivity is a good thing. But I don’t believe for one second that PC and/or JS think Lock is the team’s answer at QB. I also agree that taking one in this year’s draft would’ve been a mistake on their part. As for Pete’s justification? Meh…what’s he supposed to say here?

I’m thinking we’ll see everything materialize (or be blown to bits) in 2024 after getting next years crop of rookies a years worth of experience. I’m happy with this year’s picks for sure.

Until then, it may be wise to take everything with a “grain of salt”
There's scores of things that Pete could have said without getting so specific about where Lock would have fallen had he been in this year's draft.
Back in 2011, what other options were there other than to build around TJ? Build around Whitehurst? If you remember, 2011 was the second season of a complete rebuild. The team had just released Hasselback, who was a victim of his own aging career and the need to free up cap space. When PC was hired, he made it clear that he was not a fan of building a team around a high priced QB. In fact, it was likely a reason for his hiring. The team had 3 seasons with Wilson that fit PC's mold....a decent QB that could manage the offense and not break the bank. RW was not drafted with the belief that he would be a future HOF QB. If fact, many of the same people in this conversation loudly expressed their "expert" opinion that RW was a "stupid" pick because of his height and his mediocre ability. How did the team fair during those 3 seasons? How did the team fair after RW's contract ate up a huge chunk of the cap space and limited the ability to hire other talent?
The other options were to sign another QB in free agency, which we did, or draft a quarterback, which we also did.

The fact is that following the "We're going to build around Tavaris" pronouncement, Jackson played in 4 more regular season games, winning 2 and losing 2, then after being told by Pete in the offseason that he'd be allowed to compete for the starting job in 2012, never so much as saw a single snap in the preseason.
 

RiverDog

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What is he supposed to say?? Oh I think Lock is a piece of shit! He is trying to motivate his QB to use the skills he has and move to the next level. That is what Pete does. Never talks down his players ALWAYS talks them up. I think his point is that Lock is as good if not better than what was in this draft at QB. Time will tell if he is right or all the naysayers are.
Yep, like I said, it was vintage Pete Carroll. It's his style, and he's been very successful with it, at least until recently. In many ways, I admire and respect the way he handles his players.

Pete didn't have to say what he did. There are scores of ways he could have answered that question without either saying Lock was a POS or that he would have been a first round draft choice. I can bet you that Bill Belichick wouldn't have answered the question the way Pete did.

It's why I take with a grain of salt what Pete says about is players. He pumps them up like a salesman trying to pawn a used car. These statements about Lock being upper half of the first round talent could be nothing more than a motivational tactic of Pete's rather than an honest appraisal of Lock's abilities. There's no way either of us can tell which one is the case.
 

Nunya

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There's scores of things that Pete could have said without getting so specific about where Lock would have fallen had he been in this year's draft.

The other options were to sign another QB in free agency, which we did, or draft a quarterback, which we also did.

The fact is that following the "We're going to build around Tavaris" pronouncement, Jackson played in 4 more regular season games, winning 2 and losing 2, then after being told by Pete in the offseason that he'd be allowed to compete for the starting job in 2012, never so much as saw a single snap in the preseason.
I don't remember the "we're going to build around Travaris" quote you claim he made....at least not that late in the season. IIRC, he did say something to that effect at the beginning of the 2011 season. I would be very interested in the context of that quote. In any case, I would seriously doubt that he meant it for future seasons going forward. PC leaves little doubt that he is all about player competing at every position. If he believed that TJ was the answer, there would have been little need to sign Flynn and draft RW. I'm guessing that either you misunderstood what PC was saying or I am misunderstanding what you are saying.
 
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...These statements about Lock being upper half of the first round talent could be nothing more than a motivational tactic of Pete's rather than an honest appraisal of Lock's abilities.
I understand that you have built a clear narrative regarding Pete Carroll and thus you hear, interpret and assume what fits your narrative regarding all things Pete, but do you really believe what you typed is true? Living in a world such as this would be quite depressing for me.
 

GemCity

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I understand that you have built a clear narrative regarding Pete Carroll and thus you hear, interpret and assume what fits your narrative regarding all things Pete, but do you really believe what you typed is true? Living in a world such as this would be quite depressing for me.
Ummmm. But it’s true?

PC always projects positivity. I think it’s a great trait. Some coaches don’t.

But does PC actually believe everything he says or is it just part of his demeanor?

I don’t need PC to tell me Drew Lock hasn’t had the greatest start. I also don’t need him to tell me that PC and JS 100%, without a shadow of a doubt, are targeting multiple QBs for next years draft.
 
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Ummmm. But it’s true?

PC always projects positivity. I think it’s a great trait. Some coaches don’t.

But does PC actually believe everything he says or is it just part of his demeanor?

I don’t need PC to tell me Drew Lock hasn’t had the greatest start. I also don’t need him to tell me that PC and JS 100%, without a shadow of a doubt, are targeting multiple QBs for next years draft.
Does Pete believe what he says? Only Pete knows for sure, but I believe that he does.

Pete is about the long game and my belief is that his positivity is not some disingenuous schtick, though clearly many here believe it is....or believe he's losing his mental faculties...or believe he's <fill in with derisive descriptor>.

Pete sees people in a holistic way, which is hard for many in here to comprehend - it was just as hard for some of the players who have played for him over the years.

I could psychoanalyze some of the commenters here and possibly be spot on, but ultimately one's beliefs and the narratives we choose to build and follow is ultimately what will determine how each of us perceive what we experience and observe.

Those in here living with a belief of the fast-twitch, instant-gratification, superiority- complex mindset will forever travel the road of scarcity and not good enough - ever critics of a world where choices and decisions apart from theirs are unacceptable and deserving of ridicule.

Your last comment about looking at QBs is amusing because they have always stated that they are always looking at QBs just as they are always looking at every position for opportunities to compete and improve. So this year and next year and even when we had Russell under center, they were always looking at QBs as with every other position - that is how the team operates, that is actually how many teams operate in the world of competitive sports.

My best suggestion for those of you who seem to have such vitriol for Pete is to simply stop listening to his pressers - but then that wouldn't feed your self imposed victim roles I suppose.
 
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Thanks
Again whatever makes you feel better.
for caring about my feelings.
Corral was my favorite to view, and I hope he plays this year.
Panthers paid too much to Bridgewater, then too much to Darnold,
and McAdoo has said he never thought Baker was worth a 1st round pick.
Best value for me would be Corral starting in Carolina, and Lock starting for Seahawks, because both Corral and Lock are better economy(value) than their competitors(Darnold and Geno).
 

toffee

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Don't get into this song and dance with John. He one time tried to claim that "iodot" was a real word because Urban Dictionary had an entry on it. True story.
When it comes to all matters on Russell Wilson, any words typed by John is Gospel, they re beyond challenge. John could quote his own posts as proof, something we all could just shake our heads.

dot net ain't fun without John, every village needs their own John.
 

GemCity

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Does Pete believe what he says? Only Pete knows for sure, but I believe that he does.

Pete is about the long game and my belief is that his positivity is not some disingenuous schtick, though clearly many here believe it is....or believe he's losing his mental faculties...or believe he's <fill in with derisive descriptor>.

Pete sees people in a holistic way, which is hard for many in here to comprehend - it was just as hard for some of the players who have played for him over the years.

I could psychoanalyze some of the commenters here and possibly be spot on, but ultimately one's beliefs and the narratives we choose to build and follow is ultimately what will determine how each of us perceive what we experience and observe.

Those in here living with a belief of the fast-twitch, instant-gratification, superiority- complex mindset will forever travel the road of scarcity and not good enough - ever critics of a world where choices and decisions apart from theirs are unacceptable and deserving of ridicule.

Your last comment about looking at QBs is amusing because they have always stated that they are always looking at QBs just as they are always looking at every position for opportunities to compete and improve. So this year and next year and even when we had Russell under center, they were always looking at QBs as with every other position - that is how the team operates, that is actually how many teams operate in the world of competitive sports.

My best suggestion for those of you who seem to have such vitriol for Pete is to simply stop listening to his pressers - but then that wouldn't feed your self imposed victim roles I suppose.
I agree that they’re always looking. They’ve stated as such.

I don’t find anything wrong with what Pete’s saying. It’s his normal approach.

I just don’t think Lock is the answer. I don’t think PC and JS feel like they’ve found their QB.

And that’s ok. It’s just my opinion.

The positivity in Pete’s pressers is encouraging. You can still sense his desire to coach and get this team back to winning football games.

But, I take Pete’s comments with a grain of salt.

It’s always amusing to read the obvious such as teams always searching for players. But, considering the team’s moves this year, does it not seem a bit more relevant? No response necessary. I know the answer.

“…self imposed victim roles.” It’s a fan forum. There’s room for everyone. Even narcissist.
 

HawkNuts

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History is full of QBs that did not do real great at the beginning of their careers, but found above average success. You mention Trent Dilfer. Probably the worth QB to win a SB. Dan Fouts had 5 horrible seasons before finally flourishing. Brad Johnson was a complete washout in Minnesota, but won the SB with TB and was a 2-time pro bowler. Drew Brees had 4 bad seasons in San Diego before becoming a legend in NO. Jim Plunkett was never a great QB, but has 2 SB rings. In fact, this last season we just witnessed a QB that had 12 mediocre seasons with a team only to win the SB in his first season with another team. I think it is foolish to write Lock or Geno off as not being able to get it done. Both have the talent, it is the mistakes that costs them. A good system can minimize those mistakes.
Drew Brees had an injury that was thought to be serious. He was good in San Diego.

Shall we look at the list of QB’s who got a second chance and failed?

Carson Wentz
Rick Mirer
Heath Schuler
Ryan Leaf
EJ Manuel
Dan McGwire
Cade McNown
Tim Couch
Jim Drunkenmiller
Joey Harrington
David Carr
Vince Young
Kyle Boller
RG III
Brady Quinn
Kerry Collins

I mean there are hundreds.

Even if Drew Lock is decent our roster isn’t good enough to do much. But I’ll be curious to see what PC can do with him.
 

Scout

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I think people are over thinking this.

This is going to become a more run oriented offense with play action boot legs, etc. Lock and Geno can handle this and will not be asked to carry the team as this offense isn't going to require a top ten QB to make it roll (eg Goff) The key will be the turn around of the defense for this strategy to work.
 

Nunya

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Drew Brees had an injury that was thought to be serious. He was good in San Diego.
His injury came in the last game he played as a Charger from a late hit while trying to recover a fumble. Brees was mediocre in SD. By that time, the Chargers had already drafted Phillip Rivers and had committed to a hefty contract with Rivers.

Shall we look at the list of QB’s who got a second chance and failed?

Carson Wentz
Rick Mirer
Heath Schuler
Ryan Leaf
EJ Manuel
Dan McGwire
Cade McNown
Tim Couch
Jim Drunkenmiller
Joey Harrington
David Carr
Vince Young
Kyle Boller
RG III
Brady Quinn
Kerry Collins

I mean there are hundreds.

Even if Drew Lock is decent our roster isn’t good enough to do much. But I’ll be curious to see what PC can do with him.

Yes, there are many who did not capitalize on their "second chance". I'm not saying that there is a high chance that Lock or Geno WILL be successful, just that there is a possibility under a different system. What can I say...I tend to be an optimist. The physical abilities are there, the decision making abilities tend to be lacking at times.
 

Boohman14

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No need to prove anything. I know as much as you do (nothing) ..past performance does not guarantee future results. Prove me wrong in this case, then come back with that evidence. Not just your opinion.

I am retired living in beautiful Costa Rica, what type of problems am I suppose to have?

Pura Vida sweetheart
Well, the skiing In Costa Rica sucks, no powder on the slopes...lol
 

Boohman14

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His injury came in the last game he played as a Charger from a late hit while trying to recover a fumble. Brees was mediocre in SD. By that time, the Chargers had already drafted Phillip Rivers and had committed to a hefty contract with Rivers.



Yes, there are many who did not capitalize on their "second chance". I'm not saying that there is a high chance that Lock or Geno WILL be successful, just that there is a possibility under a different system. What can I say...I tend to be an optimist. The physical abilities are there, the decision making abilities tend to be lacking at times.
In the modern NFL teams move on quickly from QBs that don't grasp the system fairly soon. QB's like Bradshaw, Elway, Plunkett, Steve Young and many others looked like hot garbage in their first three seasons. They were given time to develop and went on to great Careers. Plunkett was a backup for about 10 years. That's not to say the Lock will be an all time great with seasoning. We really don't know how he will develop and if he will turn the corner.
 

TwistedHusky

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I'm not sure guys like Steve Young are relevant examples anymore. Too much has changed. Players get more opportunities to develop before the NFL now.

It has been some time since a QB did not work out, and then somehow worked out somewhere else. Really the only recent examples I can think of are Tannehill and Teddy Bridgewater. And Bridgewater only seemed to work out for a short while, somehow he fell back to the mean later. You had that disaster with Darnold too, which looked like it might succeed. Maybe Wentz is another example that almost seemed to work out but then crashed/burned.

(I would have a QB 1 year to show something and then spin again. A reason finding a QB is so hard, people give them too much time. Just spin again, every year if you have to. You might miss out on a borderline producer who would have popped in Year 2 or 3, but great QBs show something early. The objective is to get one of those.)

On one hand, if ANYONE can do reclamation projects it would be Carroll. On the other, doing them with QBs usually does not work.

But we have Lock, so that is the option. It isn't as if we have many choices right now. Either Carroll makes it work, or we have to jump on the carousel in the next draft. Ask the Jags how much of a sure thing that is. Or the Bears. Or the Vikings. Or the Dolphins. Or the WTFs. Or even the Panthers.
 

Rat

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Brees was mediocre in SD. By that time, the Chargers had already drafted Phillip Rivers and had committed to a hefty contract with Rivers.
In 2004 with SD, Brees was 11-4 with 27 TDs to 7 INTs and a 104.8 QB rating. Lock has never had a season remotely close to that.

I'm not seeing any great examples, but HawkNuts did mention a good one in Kerry Collins when trying to argue the opposite point. He was pretty bad in Carolina, but put together some above average seasons with the Giants.
 
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