Pete is destroying Russell Wilson career

[RolandDeschain]

^ Another person who's missing the point.

 

[DomeHawk]

I agree, we are squandering RW's career.

It's too obvious.

Now all you PC apologists (not unlike the Bevell/Cable apologists) sound off. Supporting mediocrity is not part of loyalty.

 

[Tamerlane]

I agree, we are squandering RW's career.

It's too obvious.

Now all you PC apologists (not unlike the Bevell/Cable apologists) sound off. Supporting mediocrity is not part of loyalty.

[INSERT: RW played his part in 3 points scored in the first half.]

It's too obvious.

We are squandering [PC's] career.

Now all you [RW] apologists sound off. Supporting [first-half game] mediocrity is not part of loyalty.

[ :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: ]

 

[justafan]

Or trust your QB and let him play 4 qtrs.

I was going to stay out of these silly threads but I will make this 'one and done' with a few minor points.

Wilson did play 4 quarters. In the first half he was 6 for 13. One of his first passes was directly into the waiting arms of a defender, who dropped a dead easy interception. Other passes sailed. He missed easy checkdowns. His best pass set up Lockett to be annihilated. Hollister turned over the ball too in the pass game, but was bailed out just like Wilson. Russ continued to navigate himself into pressure: PFF credited him with 1 sack, 1 hit and 3 pressures, more than any Seahawks offensive lineman for the day. And you blame the coaching staff for even trying to run? Against an opponent with a much, much worse run defense than pass defense? They tried to run, they tried to pass, and they tried to stop the Packers offense. None of it worked well in the first half.

Russ's start was not totally unlike the Eagles game, where he made some great throws but also mixed in far too many absolutely inexplicable elementary misses, throwing at receivers feet even on unpressured screen passes. This is all to say: do you even consider that Wilson, as great as he is, and he is indeed great, actually starts slow himself from time to time and plays a role in digging the hole that the team must ultimately climb out of? This mythical and ignorant notion that everyone-but-Wilson digs the hole and savior-Russ comes to the rescue is really a cute story but that's about all it is.

John63, you've been prattling all year about pass pro, blaming the coaches for not building 'around Russ' including a Packers level top tier offensive line . Of course you pay no heed to the impact Wilson's league high APY might have on long term strategies to manage the cap, or that the Seahawks currently spend less on defense than most teams. But despite the Oline accumulating major injuires throughout the year, it actually got better and better, as I demonstrated with statistics more than once. And in this game, after racking up brand new injuries, the Oline actually outperformed the much vaunted Green Bay line as indicated in the tweet below.

I get it: you want to build a modern day 2013 Broncos offense that would obviously be unstoppable. And of course, you and the analytics brainiacs want a 70%+ pass rate, or maybe higher? Who wouldn't! In that case it might be a perfect time to jump on the Chiefs bandwagon. That is if they can get past the Tennesse Titans who just steamrolled the reigning Super Bowl champion and the Super Bowl favorite... with a devastating power run game. Just like the Patriots did through much of the playoffs last year. Nevermind that heading into this last weekend, KC was the one and only top 10 neutral-script pass% team still alive, compared with 5 of the top 10 run% teams making it that far (BAL, SF, TEN, MIN, SEA).

Unfortunately Seattle's own run game got decapitated after losing their best 2 run blocking TEs, half of the offensive line, and their top 3 running backs. Do you think maybe that and an injury-ridden, bottom of the league defensive line might have had something to do with falling short of better seeding and a better chance in the playoffs. Green Bay had an enormous advantage with home field, the bye week, health, and matchups in the trenches. Falling one score short is nothing to be ashamed of and no reason to look for scapegoats to satisfy your uncontrolled emotions.

Sadly, there is a certain thankfully tiny but very vocal minority of Wilson worshippers / Carroll haters that continue to twist facts and pit one against the other. They live in some fantasy world where they know better than Russ what's best for Russ. Wilson signed a contract. He knew exactly the lay of the land. He didn't want to go to a crappy, lopsided 70% passing team. Wilson respects the run game and a balanced attack - he says so often - which helps him like it helps any QB, and he checks into run plays all the time . Of course that doesn't stop armchair analysts from blaming coaches when those particular runs don't turn out. Wilson looks up to Carroll and Carroll showers love on Wilson. They are an unbelievable pairing that will endure for as many years as Pete wants to coach, and in all likelihood that means a whole lot of years. I can't wait.

And to all those spewing the related nonsense, Wilson does not "carry" Carroll any more than Carroll carries Wilson. PC was winning NFL playoff games before Wilson, and before that, he utterly dominated college football with myriad quarterbacks. A QB alone does not come anywhere near getting you the second most successful NFL team of the decade, or else first ballot hall of famer Drew Brees would have propelled the Saints to the same heights. Ideas like this are vacuous nonsense that pollute forums and twitter. They unfortunately leave a sour note at the end of an amazing Seahawks season of overcoming league leading youth, injuries and schedule difficulty. But don't let facts get in the way of your emotional expressions! Thanks for reading - I'm out. :0190l:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/1216557838052536322[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SethWalder/status/1216748594738401287[/tweet]

Great post. Best i have read since the loss.

 

[OrangeGravy]

I agree, we are squandering RW's career.

It's too obvious.

Now all you PC apologists (not unlike the Bevell/Cable apologists) sound off. Supporting mediocrity is not part of loyalty.

If Seattle's record in this past decade is mediocre, there's only one franchise that isn't

 

[John63]

Or trust your QB and let him play 4 qtrs.

I was going to stay out of these silly threads but I will make this 'one and done' with a few minor points.

Wilson did play 4 quarters. In the first half he was 6 for 13. One of his first passes was directly into the waiting arms of a defender, who dropped a dead easy interception. Other passes sailed. He missed easy checkdowns. His best pass set up Lockett to be annihilated. Hollister turned over the ball too in the pass game, but was bailed out just like Wilson. Russ continued to navigate himself into pressure: PFF credited him with 1 sack, 1 hit and 3 pressures, more than any Seahawks offensive lineman for the day. And you blame the coaching staff for even trying to run? Against an opponent with a much, much worse run defense than pass defense? They tried to run, they tried to pass, and they tried to stop the Packers offense. None of it worked well in the first half.

Russ's start was not totally unlike the Eagles game, where he made some great throws but also mixed in far too many absolutely inexplicable elementary misses, throwing at receivers feet even on unpressured screen passes. This is all to say: do you even consider that Wilson, as great as he is, and he is indeed great, actually starts slow himself from time to time and plays a role in digging the hole that the team must ultimately climb out of? This mythical and ignorant notion that everyone-but-Wilson digs the hole and savior-Russ comes to the rescue is really a cute story but that's about all it is.

John63, you've been prattling all year about pass pro, blaming the coaches for not building 'around Russ' including a Packers level top tier offensive line . Of course you pay no heed to the impact Wilson's league high APY might have on long term strategies to manage the cap, or that the Seahawks currently spend less on defense than most teams. But despite the Oline accumulating major injuires throughout the year, it actually got better and better, as I demonstrated with statistics more than once. And in this game, after racking up brand new injuries, the Oline actually outperformed the much vaunted Green Bay line as indicated in the tweet below.

I get it: you want to build a modern day 2013 Broncos offense that would obviously be unstoppable. And of course, you and the analytics brainiacs want a 70%+ pass rate, or maybe higher? Who wouldn't! In that case it might be a perfect time to jump on the Chiefs bandwagon. That is if they can get past the Tennesse Titans who just steamrolled the reigning Super Bowl champion and the Super Bowl favorite... with a devastating power run game. Just like the Patriots did through much of the playoffs last year. Nevermind that heading into this last weekend, KC was the one and only top 10 neutral-script pass% team still alive, compared with 5 of the top 10 run% teams making it that far (BAL, SF, TEN, MIN, SEA).

Unfortunately Seattle's own run game got decapitated after losing their best 2 run blocking TEs, half of the offensive line, and their top 3 running backs. Do you think maybe that and an injury-ridden, bottom of the league defensive line might have had something to do with falling short of better seeding and a better chance in the playoffs. Green Bay had an enormous advantage with home field, the bye week, health, and matchups in the trenches. Falling one score short is nothing to be ashamed of and no reason to look for scapegoats to satisfy your uncontrolled emotions.

Sadly, there is a certain thankfully tiny but very vocal minority of Wilson worshippers / Carroll haters that continue to twist facts and pit one against the other. They live in some fantasy world where they know better than Russ what's best for Russ. Wilson signed a contract. He knew exactly the lay of the land. He didn't want to go to a crappy, lopsided 70% passing team. Wilson respects the run game and a balanced attack - he says so often - which helps him like it helps any QB, and he checks into run plays all the time . Of course that doesn't stop armchair analysts from blaming coaches when those particular runs don't turn out. Wilson looks up to Carroll and Carroll showers love on Wilson. They are an unbelievable pairing that will endure for as many years as Pete wants to coach, and in all likelihood that means a whole lot of years. I can't wait.

And to all those spewing the related nonsense, Wilson does not "carry" Carroll any more than Carroll carries Wilson. PC was winning NFL playoff games before Wilson, and before that, he utterly dominated college football with myriad quarterbacks. A QB alone does not come anywhere near getting you the second most successful NFL team of the decade, or else first ballot hall of famer Drew Brees would have propelled the Saints to the same heights. Ideas like this are vacuous nonsense that pollute forums and twitter. They unfortunately leave a sour note at the end of an amazing Seahawks season of overcoming league leading youth, injuries and schedule difficulty. But don't let facts get in the way of your emotional expressions! Thanks for reading - I'm out. :0190l:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/1216557838052536322[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SethWalder/status/1216748594738401287[/tweet]

And yet oline ranked 25th in pass protection. And you miss the point, in the first half we run a vanilla offense testing the defense this us straight from PC, we stay with it until we have no choice and then we change to an uptempo and then we do what we want and score at will.the problem is PC has waited to long 3 straight years in the playoffs.

 

[John63]

What some of you fail to get is that without Pete, we would probably not even be in the playoffs. What he brings to this team can't be measured in numbers.

Okay than that means the problem is Wilson let's get rid of him. We have a major slow start problem. We have HC who admits to why he does it. And qB who works magic once given the reigns. You guys think the HC is god and does no wrong than get rid of the QB and see.

The problem is either the guy dictating the system or the guy running it. I really don't care anymore but something has to change you PC worshippers thinks it's not him. Get rid of Wilson and let's see.

PCs NFL non playoff record without Wilson 47-49. With Wilson 86-41. If he was as great and godly S some here are trying to say he would be better than 47-49 without Wilson. But hey like I said some here clearly feel PC is not in any way part of the problem, which h means it's all Wilso. Get rid of Wilson. Problem is PC knows without Wilson he is a sub 500 coach. 14-18 his 2 years without Wilson in Seattle.

 

[joeseahawks]

Your response sounds as if Russ didn't know how to play when he got to Seattle and that all Russ knows, he learned it from Pete. Maybe, you should check Russ's college record and performances. Both at NC State and Wisconsin.

Russ has always been great. Unfortunately, he has been the victim of "Strange thinking".
What would have happened, if the Hawks built a team around Russell strengths from the beginning, just like KC is doing for Mahomes? And I'm not just saying build a team, but also the play calling, the drafting of O-Line, receivers, RBs, ... etc.
Andy Reed is all out on Mahomes. Andy Reed has been there before with these types of QBs. McNabb, Vick, ... etc. That's why Mahomes is flourishing.
Since Sunday, I have completely revised my stand on this Pete/Russell. Mahomes/Lamar are the model for me.
Russell had to fight all types of stigma since college. Can you believe he was kicked out of school, so that Mike Glennon be anointed starter? Russell had to transfer to Wisconsin to play.
Why can't we have a coach / coaching staff build around Russ to leverage his strength versus a team that is scared to utilize his strength and makes up crap to undermine his abilities?
I believe that Russ is just as good as Mahomes. Unfortunately, he is stuck with a coach who "appears openminded" but deep down, I don't believe Pete trusts Russell much.
If the Hawks want another SB, this philosophy must change. The excuse that we are rebuilding ... is just another excuse. Russell can carry this team ... Stop holding him back.

Russell's amazing, no denying that. But people aren't giving Pete enough credit.
It's Pete that's given Russell the perfect environment to learn, grow and become the player he is. To think Russell's halfway through a successful career that's going to end with him putting on a gold jacket without the help of his head coach that allows him the freedom to excel within the confines of his team, locker room and offense?
Short sighted. Russell's THE reason Pete turned over the entire roster getting rid of all the Russell haters and detractors on this team.
Do you really think it's a coincidence that Russell had his best year this year after getting his new deal and not having the distraction of guys like Bennett, Sherman, Earl and Doug undermining his leadership?
That's all Pete.

 

[joeseahawks]

You nailed it.
All these praises people give to Pete, Sean Payton, McCarty, ... etc. They only have 1 SB in over 15 years, but lifetime jobs.
Young guys aren't given jobs, but these old turtles keep sh*&^ the bed with all the talent given to them.
Not only do they keep their jobs, they refuse to evolve. They refuse to play to the strength of their best players.
I'm so sick of this ...
Russell is in his prime. Has never missed a game. Played 5 years in college and has already been beaten up because of pathetic O-Line. Honestly, I don't see him play at this level for another 3-4 years. We must capitalize now on his strength.

What some of you fail to get is that without Pete, we would probably not even be in the playoffs. What he brings to this team can't be measured in numbers.

Okay than that means the problem is Wilson let's get rid of him. We have a major slow start problem. We have HC who admits to why he does it. And qB who works magic once given the reigns. You guys think the HC is god and does no wrong than get rid of the QB and see.

The problem is either the guy dictating the system or the guy running it. I really don't care anymore but something has to change you PC worshippers thinks it's not him. Get rid of Wilson and let's see.

PCs NFL non playoff record without Wilson 47-49. With Wilson 86-41. If he was as great and godly S some here are trying to say he would be better than 47-49 without Wilson. But hey like I said some here clearly feel PC is not in any way part of the problem, which h means it's all Wilso. Get rid of Wilson. Problem is PC knows without Wilson he is a sub 500 coach. 14-18 his 2 years without Wilson in Seattle.

 

[Uncle Si]

They shit the bed?

Counterpoint... the NFL is hard and these are Hall of Fame coaches in the most challenging coaching environment in pro sports.


It's shocking that people can't also see the mutual benefits of a solid qb and the best coaches. Like the best ones were out there winning games with scrubs.


It's not a video game. Yet some fans want those types of results.

 

[bmorepunk]

I agree, we are squandering RW's career.

It's too obvious.

Now all you PC apologists (not unlike the Bevell/Cable apologists) sound off. Supporting mediocrity is not part of loyalty.

If Seattle's record in this past decade is mediocre, there's only one franchise that isn't

I get being critical of things, but anybody who thinks this team has been "mediocre" needs a serious re-calibration. You're right, they're the second most successful franchise since Wilson came on board.

If someone wants to talk about mediocre teams since Wilson showed up, it's the Dolphins, Bengals, Lions, Bills, Bears and even the Cowboys. If you're a fan of these teams they give you enough, just enough to think you might make a playoff game. Some of them even make it, and occasionally win one. But most years you're just hoping that other teams lose in the right combo so you can get in under a wild card berth. Don't worry, it's just another 7-9 to 9-7 season which you're done for the season after Week 17 again.

If this sounds familiar to any of us older fans, it's because this team used to be mediocre as hell before Holmgren finally got something decent going. Between the 1993 and 2002 seasons we got to see three 6-10 seasons, three 8-8s, two 7-9s, and two 9-7s. Every year, we're just hoping towards the end to win that last game and a couple other teams lose theirs. There were no playoff wins in the 1985 through 2004 seasons. You could have had a kid and they would have graduated high school during this time period. During that 18 season stretch this team made the playoffs five times, and they won 9 games four of those times and 10 games once making the playoffs. 10 straight seasons in that stretch with no playoff appearances. But plenty of 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 seasons. They weren't even bad enough to be bad for a couple of years; they were just so mediocre they could get your hopes up just to squeak into a playoff berth so they could be crushed.

 

[bmorepunk]

They $h!t the bed?

Counterpoint... the NFL is hard and these are Hall of Fame coaches in the most challenging coaching environment in pro sports.


It's shocking that people can't also see the mutual benefits of a solid qb and the best coaches. Like the best ones were out there winning games with scrubs.


It's not a video game. Yet some fans want those types of results.

Weird thing is Belechick was left out of the "old coaches" list. The guy that's won 6 Super Bowls in the last 19 seasons. And lost another three.

 

[John63]

You nailed it.
All these praises people give to Pete, Sean Payton, McCarty, ... etc. They only have 1 SB in over 15 years, but lifetime jobs.
Young guys aren't given jobs, but these old turtles keep sh*&^ the bed with all the talent given to them.
Not only do they keep their jobs, they refuse to evolve. They refuse to play to the strength of their best players.
I'm so sick of this ...
Russell is in his prime. Has never missed a game. Played 5 years in college and has already been beaten up because of pathetic O-Line. Honestly, I don't see him play at this level for another 3-4 years. We must capitalize now on his strength.

What some of you fail to get is that without Pete, we would probably not even be in the playoffs. What he brings to this team can't be measured in numbers.

Okay than that means the problem is Wilson let's get rid of him. We have a major slow start problem. We have HC who admits to why he does it. And qB who works magic once given the reigns. You guys think the HC is god and does no wrong than get rid of the QB and see.

The problem is either the guy dictating the system or the guy running it. I really don't care anymore but something has to change you PC worshippers thinks it's not him. Get rid of Wilson and let's see.

PCs NFL non playoff record without Wilson 47-49. With Wilson 86-41. If he was as great and godly S some here are trying to say he would be better than 47-49 without Wilson. But hey like I said some here clearly feel PC is not in any way part of the problem, which h means it's all Wilso. Get rid of Wilson. Problem is PC knows without Wilson he is a sub 500 coach. 14-18 his 2 years without Wilson in Seattle.

Exactly!

 

[BASF]

They $h!t the bed?

Counterpoint... the NFL is hard and these are Hall of Fame coaches in the most challenging coaching environment in pro sports.


It's shocking that people can't also see the mutual benefits of a solid qb and the best coaches. Like the best ones were out there winning games with scrubs.


It's not a video game. Yet some fans want those types of results.

Weird thing is Belechick was left out of the "old coaches" list. The guy that's won 6 Super Bowls in the last 19 seasons. And lost another three.

And has been caught cheating more times than Aaron Hernandez had charges against him.

 

[BASF]

Tamerlane, excellent post. We need more like you on this board.

Threads like this are exactly the reason I don't really come here anymore. Some of the points in here are ridiculous:

We tried to run too much? The running backs had six carries in the first half against a run defense that ranked 9 spots lower than their pass defense.

Pete is too conservative early in these games? There were more deep passes in the first quarter by a two to one ratio.

The team should be up tempo from the start of the game? How many teams have successfully run that system and made the Super Bowl in history?

It is almost comical checking this board after months as it is the same posters talking the same stuff in circles. It is funny when they bemoan the fact that Pete lets team come back on them by allowing teams to complete passes in front of the safeties and burn clock, but when Wilson does it because the other team is allowing it for us to burn clock, it is "Wilson is taking over the game, because he has been let off the chain."

Comical.

 

[Hawkpower]

Tamerlane, excellent post. We need more like you on this board.

Threads like this are exactly the reason I don't really come here anymore. Some of the points in here are ridiculous:

We tried to run too much? The running backs had six carries in the first half against a run defense that ranked 9 spots lower than their pass defense.

Pete is too conservative early in these games? There were more deep passes in the first quarter by a two to one ratio.

The team should be up tempo from the start of the game? How many teams have successfully run that system and made the Super Bowl in history?

It is almost comical checking this board after months as it is the same posters talking the same stuff in circles. It is funny when they bemoan the fact that Pete lets team come back on them by allowing teams to complete passes in front of the safeties and burn clock, but when Wilson does it because the other team is allowing it for us to burn clock, it is "Wilson is taking over the game, because he has been let off the chain."

Comical.

Spot on.

There was one series where one could argue they were conservative in the first half( 3 straight runs) but to be fair, they picked up 6 or 7 on first down and had 3rd and 1. They might not have been intending to go 3 straight runs but the down and distance played that out.

Otherwise, people are just shouting CONSERVATIVE FIRST HALF!!!!! because- A: Pete has a history. B. We only scored 3 points so simpletons believe that the only possible cause for that is Pete playing it safe. Not missed execution. Not dropped passes. Not penalties. Not missed blocks.

Only Pete's fault :roll:

 

[fenderbender123]

It seems like Russ is having a spectacular career largely because he was lucky enough to have been drafted by Pete, and therefore got to play on a perennial playoff team and in two Superbowls. If he gets drafted by almost any other team, his career would have been less noteworthy.

 

[DomeHawk]

I agree, we are squandering RW's career.

It's too obvious.

Now all you PC apologists (not unlike the Bevell/Cable apologists) sound off. Supporting mediocrity is not part of loyalty.

If Seattle's record in this past decade is mediocre, there's only one franchise that isn't

I get being critical of things, but anybody who thinks this team has been "mediocre" needs a serious re-calibration. You're right, they're the second most successful franchise since Wilson came on board.

If someone wants to talk about mediocre teams since Wilson showed up, it's the Dolphins, Bengals, Lions, Bills, Bears and even the Cowboys. If you're a fan of these teams they give you enough, just enough to think you might make a playoff game. Some of them even make it, and occasionally win one. But most years you're just hoping that other teams lose in the right combo so you can get in under a wild card berth. Don't worry, it's just another 7-9 to 9-7 season which you're done for the season after Week 17 again.

If this sounds familiar to any of us older fans, it's because this team used to be mediocre as hell before Holmgren finally got something decent going. Between the 1993 and 2002 seasons we got to see three 6-10 seasons, three 8-8s, two 7-9s, and two 9-7s. Every year, we're just hoping towards the end to win that last game and a couple other teams lose theirs. There were no playoff wins in the 1985 through 2004 seasons. You could have had a kid and they would have graduated high school during this time period. During that 18 season stretch this team made the playoffs five times, and they won 9 games four of those times and 10 games once making the playoffs. 10 straight seasons in that stretch with no playoff appearances. But plenty of 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 seasons. They weren't even bad enough to be bad for a couple of years; they were just so mediocre they could get your hopes up just to squeak into a playoff berth so they could be crushed.

We are mediocre, we got into the playoffs because of RW and without him we would be lucky to win seven games this season. Pete got his rep because of a perfect storm of players he got lucky with in the 2012-2014 seasons. We have seen since then that was as much luck as skill.

They are just too painful to watch anymore. it is a flawed system.

 

[bmorepunk]

We are mediocre, we got into the playoffs because of RW and without him we would be lucky to win seven games this season.

That's not how this works. Russell Wilson is part of the team and plays here. This team likely would miss the playoffs without him, but you don't get to discount his body of work because he's so crucial. He is part of the Seahawks. The Seahawks have not been mediocre largely because of him.

You aren't mediocre when you make 7 out of 10 divisional games, two Super Bowls, and win one. If you are, then every team except the Patriots is mediocre over the last decade.

Were the Patriots "mediocre" between 2005 and 2013? They lost two Super Bowls, they missed the playoffs once, they lost two wild card games, a divisional game, and three AFC championships.

 

[DomeHawk]

We are mediocre, we got into the playoffs because of RW and without him we would be lucky to win seven games this season.

That's not how this works. Russell Wilson is part of the team and plays here. This team likely would miss the playoffs without him, but you don't get to discount his body of work because he's so crucial. He is part of the Seahawks. The Seahawks have not been mediocre largely because of him.

You aren't mediocre when you make 7 out of 10 divisional games, two Super Bowls, and win one. If you are, then every team except the Patriots is mediocre over the last decade.

Were the Patriots "mediocre" between 2005 and 2013? They lost two Super Bowls, they missed the playoffs once, they lost two wild card games, a divisional game, and three AFC championships.

This IS a middle-of-the-road team w/o RW, if you cannot see that you just don't know squat about football.

Going back 7-8 years doesn't prove anything, I am talking about right now.