Pete Carroll Philosophy

chris98251

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I just want whats best for the team I like and I dont feel Pete Carroll is that anymore. After watching 8 straight years of failing to do anything in the post season and the times Carroll has admitted not to understanding what the other team was doing, I think its past time to move on from him.
Playoffs pretty much every year, no longer cash strapped with a Diva QB so they can build the rest of the team. Tell me a coach that's out there that can draft as we have the last couple years, go to the playoffs every year. Get players to see their souls on game day to win. Yes he is not perfect, but hey we could have, Kliff Kingsbury, Matt Rhule, Matt Eberflus, Mike McCarthy. Now tell me a coach that can the same success Pete has had and a track record to back it up.
 
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Lagartixa

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Then the places that credit Geno with three are in question. How can a game in which Seattle never trailed be considered a game winning drive? They were already winning for cripes sake.

Do you even watch the games? The Seahawks were not already winning. If you're talking about the Giants game, it was tied, and Smith led a fourth-quarter drive to put the Seahawks ahead for good.

I don't define game-winning drives. By the definition that's used, that's a game-winning drive. If you have a problem with the definition, take it up with the people who define these things.

Then you assertion is wrong. Heck, Daniel Jones is credited with 5. Talk about desperation.

Does the University of Pittsburgh not require its students to be able to read?
(EDITED to add: my assumption is that you're an alum, not a current student)

What I had written was that Geno Smith HAS led the league in game-winning drives. In 2013, his rookie season, with a bad team, Smith LED THE LEAGUE with five game-winning drives.

In my comment to which you were responding, I wrote:
And I'll stand by my assertion that Geno Smith HAS led the league in game-winning drives. Your desperation to find some excuse not to accept it doesn't change the fact that he has.

And somebody who evidently can't read replied
Then you assertion is wrong. Heck, Daniel Jones is credited with 5. Talk about desperation.

The assertion I made is most certainly not wrong and I continue to stand by it. Geno Smith led the league in game-winning drives in his rookie season. Daniel Jones was not in the league that season.
 
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Lagartixa

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I dont hate Geno. I just dont put him on a pedestal like most around here.

I don't think anyone here puts him on a pedestal. He's got his defects, and I can think of several current QBs who are better, but with his current contract, Smith probably has the best cost-benefit of any QB not on a rookie contract. And even if he doesn't play well in 2022, the Seahawks can get out of his contract with relative ease.

Putting a player on a pedestal is what you do with Russell Wilson, one of the three worst starting QBs in the league last season. You give Wilson all the credit for the success the Seahawks had under Pete Carroll prior to 2022, even though Carroll and the Seahawks improved by three wins and made the playoffs in their first season without Wilson, despite a huge dead-money weight on the cap from the after-effects of Wilson's last contract with the Seahawks, while Wilson in his first season "freed from the shackles" of Carroll was one of the worst starting QBs in the league and became a national laughingstock.

Thats great he's about league average.

First, there are decent reasons to believe Smith will be better than a league-average starting QB in 2023. But let's just say he plays right at the league average in 2023. The reason "over-replacement-level" stats, as opposed to "over-average" stats, are important is because a league-average player over a full season produces a lot of value. And with a cap number of $10.1M for 2023, Smith will be a tremendous bargain for the Seahawks if he produces a league-average performance.

I only follow Seattle and i've seen him botch games. Thats where I take my opinion from.

We all saw Wilson throw a goal-line interception to lose a Super Bowl, but you don't take the same opinion about him from that. Quite the contrary, in fact. You make excuses for Wilson and blame everyone but him for the interception he threw to botch a Super Bowl.
 

pittpnthrs

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Playoffs pretty much every year, no longer cash strapped with a Diva QB so they can build the rest of the team. Tell me a coach that's out there that can draft as we have the last couple years, go to the playoffs every year. Get players to see their souls on game day to win. Yes he is not perfect, but hey we could have, Kliff Kingsbury, Matt Rhule, Matt Eberflus, Mike McCarthy. Now tell me a coach that can the same success Pete has had and a track record to back it up.

Andy Reid, Mike Tomlin, Bill Belichick. Hell even McCarthy went 12-5 with a playoff win last season so i'm not sure he's a good bar to be using.

Carroll makes the playoffs most of the time, got rid of the QB that carried the team for years but is widely hated here for some reason but yes it freed up cash, and yes there is a lot of new faces on the team now. True, the last draft was good and this years is up in the air, but lets just forget about the dismal drafting for years before that. With all of that factored in, I still doubt the Hawks will ever make it past the 2nd round as long as Carroll is here.
 

pittpnthrs

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Do you even watch the games? The Seahawks were not already winning. If you're talking about the Giants game, it was tied, and Smith led a fourth-quarter drive to put the Seahawks ahead for good.

I don't define game-winning drives. By the definition that's used, that's a game-winning drive. If you have a problem with the definition, take it up with the people who define these things.



Does the University of Pittsburgh not require its students to be able to read?
(EDITED to add: my assumption is that you're an alum, not a current student)

What I had written was that Geno Smith HAS led the league in game-winning drives. In 2013, his rookie season, with a bad team, Smith LED THE LEAGUE with five game-winning drives.

In my comment to which you were responding, I wrote:


And somebody who evidently can't read replied


The assertion I made is most certainly not wrong and I continue to stand by it. Geno Smith led the league in game-winning drives in his rookie season. Daniel Jones was not in the league that season.

I'm taking it up with you. Even you must admit that crediting a game winning drive in a game in which the team never trailed is silly.

I'm not a Pittsburgh alumni.

My bad. I was wrong. I forgot you were talking about 10 years ago when he played on a team that was almost always behind in every game.
 

pittpnthrs

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I don't think anyone here puts him on a pedestal. He's got his defects, and I can think of several current QBs who are better, but with his current contract, Smith probably has the best cost-benefit of any QB not on a rookie contract. And even if he doesn't play well in 2022, the Seahawks can get out of his contract with relative ease.

Putting a player on a pedestal is what you do with Russell Wilson, one of the three worst starting QBs in the league last season. You give Wilson all the credit for the success the Seahawks had under Pete Carroll prior to 2022, even though Carroll and the Seahawks improved by three wins and made the playoffs in their first season without Wilson, despite a huge dead-money weight on the cap from the after-effects of Wilson's last contract with the Seahawks, while Wilson in his first season "freed from the shackles" of Carroll was one of the worst starting QBs in the league and became a national laughingstock.



First, there are decent reasons to believe Smith will be better than a league-average starting QB in 2023. But let's just say he plays right at the league average in 2023. The reason "over-replacement-level" stats, as opposed to "over-average" stats, are important is because a league-average player over a full season produces a lot of value. And with a cap number of $10.1M for 2023, Smith will be a tremendous bargain for the Seahawks if he produces a league-average performance.



We all saw Wilson throw a goal-line interception to lose a Super Bowl, but you don't take the same opinion about him from that. Quite the contrary, in fact. You make excuses for Wilson and blame everyone but him for the interception he threw to botch a Super Bowl.

Plenty of people put him on a pedestal around here. All you read is how he broke the season passing record, his completion percentage, his pro-bowl votes, his CBPOY award, etc,,,,. All that equated to a one game over .500 record and a first round bounce in the post season. Like I said, I dont hate Geno, but I only see him as very pedestrian QB and I have little faith in him.

I saw Wilson time after time after time win games in the 4th quarter when the game plan wasnt working and was thrown in the scrap heap. I always believed there was a chance with Wilson because i've seen it happen so many times. Yes I give Wilson a lot of credit for the teams success over the years, but its not just me. Pete Carroll did too.

Yep, Wilson threw an interception in the Super Bowl on a play that never should have been called by a coaching staff that had no idea what they were doing because Belichick befuddled them by not calling a timeout. A play that was destined to fail before the ball was even snapped has more guilt laid upon the coaching staff than the players because the players were set up for failure from the outset.
 

Lagartixa

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Wins game by 2 touchdowns............GAME WINNING DRIVE!!! :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

The way you say that, it seems like you're trying to imply that it was the Seahawks second TD in the fourth quarter that led to Smith being credited with a game-winning drive. It wasn't

The game was tied in the fourth quarter, and Smith led a drive that ended with a 33-yard TD pass, putting the Seahawks up for good. In what way is that not a game-winning drive? The fact that the Seahawks put the game away later with another TD doesn't change it.

And I personally find the fact that Smith led the Seahawks to blowing the game wide open after it had been tied in the fourth quarter more impressive and a better sign than if it had gone down to the wire and the Seahawks had scored in the final seconds to win 16-13 or something.
 

morgulon1

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I just want whats best for the team I like and I dont feel Pete Carroll is that anymore. After watching 8 straight years of failing to do anything in the post season and the times Carroll has admitted not to understanding what the other team was doing, I think its past time to move on from him.
Fair enough. I got to thinking about what I wrote and starting wishing I hadn't of stated it the way I did. You have every right to feel the way you do. I've done my Fair share of complaining in the past and .net is the place to do it.

I apologize for questioning your Fandom and what I said.

I think Seattle's success actually hurt them in many ways . Always finishing amongst the top meant they weren't picking Devon Witherspoons they were picking LJ Colliers and then add in #3
and everyone wanting the 2nd bag , losing really good coaches . I think they've turned a corner.
 

keasley45

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I don't think anyone here puts him on a pedestal. He's got his defects, and I can think of several current QBs who are better, but with his current contract, Smith probably has the best cost-benefit of any QB not on a rookie contract. And even if he doesn't play well in 2022, the Seahawks can get out of his contract with relative ease.

Putting a player on a pedestal is what you do with Russell Wilson, one of the three worst starting QBs in the league last season. You give Wilson all the credit for the success the Seahawks had under Pete Carroll prior to 2022, even though Carroll and the Seahawks improved by three wins and made the playoffs in their first season without Wilson, despite a huge dead-money weight on the cap from the after-effects of Wilson's last contract with the Seahawks, while Wilson in his first season "freed from the shackles" of Carroll was one of the worst starting QBs in the league and became a national laughingstock.



First, there are decent reasons to believe Smith will be better than a league-average starting QB in 2023. But let's just say he plays right at the league average in 2023. The reason "over-replacement-level" stats, as opposed to "over-average" stats, are important is because a league-average player over a full season produces a lot of value. And with a cap number of $10.1M for 2023, Smith will be a tremendous bargain for the Seahawks if he produces a league-average performance.



We all saw Wilson throw a goal-line interception to lose a Super Bowl, but you don't take the same opinion about him from that. Quite the contrary, in fact. You make excuses for Wilson and blame everyone but him for the interception he threw to botch a Super Bowl.

Hamburger Hill, bud. you're just throwing words into the grinder. No logic will work.

If you praise Geno, you put him on a pedestal.

If you repsect Pete and the winning tradition he's brought to the franchise, you're blind for not seeing that hes at best only the 3rd best coach we've had.

Its funny how to some, Pete is the reason for marginal playoff success, while Russ (one of the worst, recent 'elite' qbs at 3rd down conversions, reliably beating something basic like cover 2, sustaining drives, and playing within a traditional offense) receives little blame for our post season failures under Pete. EVEN though now, its been proven that emperor Russ was barely clad in skivies, rather than ackowledging that the bottleneck in our winning against playoff defenses who were only ever required to contain hoodini to beat us, was in large part because of the failures of our qb at the time, the strategy is to double down, admit no wrong, and continue to put the only proven reason we've had success, on full blast.

And, of course... to diminish the accomplishments of a qb who in his first year at the helm of the same offense Russ had access to, did things with it that Russ never could. A qb, btw, who, according to that same tribe, before last season, was viewed as a joke of a player.

I bet N Hackett wishes he had Geno running his offense last year in Denver. He'd likely still have a HC gig. But its cool, because even though he was seen by some as an abomination of a HC and OC, somehow he still managed to land a job as OC for one of the hottest shows in the league, and for one of the most critical QBs in the league - he got one coach fired and was highly critical of his last one.

And I'd wager if you called Sean Payton and asked him if he could start from scratch and could choose between Geno or Russ, ME3 would be twirling Subway signs on the corner come September.

Only in the world of the disgruntled, can Pete be seen as the best coach we've had. Its funny, because if you are in the camp of those critical of Russ and happy he's moved on, its likely you are also still ok acknowledging that with all of his flaws, he was the best player at the position that we've ever had. Was he the best pure QB? debatable. But the best at doing what he did from that spot? Absolutley. That's certainly how i feel. He was the best we had... and also ultimately a huge part of the reason we never accomplished much once the keys to the playoff porsche was in his hands. His tools were vast, but limited in key areas.

You could say the same about Hass when he hung them up. best we ever had? Yup. Ultimately alos responsible for key losses? Sure - look at his career TD to INt %.

Pete - the same. Best we ever had. How many more championships we can win under him is open, considering he's now truly rebuilding the team in his own image... again. Like in NE, there was a question about who was most responsible for the team's winning over the years. BB is now viewed as maybe slightly less the absolute cause of the team's success ( a bit unfair honestly given the number of truly ouststanding HOF players that came from that team over the years from the opposite side of the LOS). But there was a precipitous fall once he lost his 'elite' qb.

Meanwhile, in Seattle, PC did no worse than he had with HIS 'elite' qb, as a matter of fact, one can argue that the offense flourished without him and... he was a candidate for COTY. That SHOULD signal that either Pete's one helluva coach. Or... that the new QB is carrying him like - in the eyes of some - the last one did. Yet, somehow, its neither to them. And somehow, rather, that both qb and coach are just overrated and only capable of delivering mediocrity.

Forget the remarkable accomplishments by a team, qb and coach left for dead last year. Forget the obvious catastrophic failure, pitfalls and shortcomings of the outgoing qb who was considered THE reason we were ever relevant. Forget the team and FO now being hailed once again as one of the best in the league...

For some, giving all that up, even at the risk of blowing up everything we've had and are building (again) now without what was an obvious ceiling at the QB position, in favor of handing over control to an unknown 'someone' who could potentially deliver us several losing seasons is 'favorable'. Better that, than to admit that Pete, for all his flaws, and his accomplishments, might be better still than the version he was when he built the team around a player who's flaws are now plainly and unbiasedly obvious. Its just fact. Hard to swallow as it may be for some.

But i'm sure it will all be forgotten when we hoist another Lombardi before Pete hangs them up.
 

CallMeADawg

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I dont hate Geno. I just dont put him on a pedestal like most around here. Thats great he's about league average. I only follow Seattle and i've seen him botch games. Thats where I take my opinion from.
Just to be clear, I said league average with respect to fumbles. That doesn't mean league average overall. Keeping things in context is important.

If you only watch football in a Seattle vacuum, do not make comments about Pete Carroll or Geno Smith with respect to the rest of the league then. You just admitted you don't know anything about the rest of the league.

It's like everything I've said to you was just validated. Thanks.
 

chris98251

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Andy Reid, Mike Tomlin, Bill Belichick. Hell even McCarthy went 12-5 with a playoff win last season so i'm not sure he's a good bar to be using.

Carroll makes the playoffs most of the time, got rid of the QB that carried the team for years but is widely hated here for some reason but yes it freed up cash, and yes there is a lot of new faces on the team now. True, the last draft was good and this years is up in the air, but lets just forget about the dismal drafting for years before that. With all of that factored in, I still doubt the Hawks will ever make it past the 2nd round as long as Carroll is here.
So how many of them are available to coach, answer the effing question for once rather then dodge it with your own pumped agenda. Oh and Mr. Eliminated never carried this team, defense, Lynch and Brown did, if he could see or use the middle of the field he may have had an argument, but he didn't and it took herculean effort by RB's and WR's to go into what Wilson threw them into since he can't throw to anyone in stride to make catches.
 

GeekHawk

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Jeebus people. We were 9th in points scored last year and 25th in points allowed. There can be no question about why we didn't win more games than we did, and it didn't involve Geno (surprisingly, at least to me at the start of last season - I too was selling him short, though his 3 games when RW didn't play in 2021 were kind of an eye-opener).
 

morgulon1

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Plenty of people put him on a pedestal around here. All you read is how he broke the season passing record, his completion percentage, his pro-bowl votes, his CBPOY award, etc,,,,. All that equated to a one game over .500 record and a first round bounce in the post season. Like I said, I dont hate Geno, but I only see him as very pedestrian QB and I have little faith in him.

I saw Wilson time after time after time win games in the 4th quarter when the game plan wasnt working and was thrown in the scrap heap. I always believed there was a chance with Wilson because i've seen it happen so many times. Yes I give Wilson a lot of credit for the teams success over the years, but its not just me. Pete Carroll did too.

Yep, Wilson threw an interception in the Super Bowl on a play that never should have been called by a coaching staff that had no idea what they were doing because Belichick befuddled them by not calling a timeout. A play that was destined to fail before the ball was even snapped has more guilt laid upon the coaching staff than the players because the players were set up for failure from the outset.
No , that was bad all the way around. Pete Carroll took the heat and said it was on him but he doesn't call the offense. That's what a leader does.
Now Mr Unlimited should've as a top tier
League leading qb should've recognized this and threw it away, tuck and run (he was still fast at this point) Or called an audible and give the rock to two-fo

Peyton Manning would've thrown it in the dirt so would've Brady or any other qb
That had ANY sense .

Unlimited was probably already picturing himself on sports illustrated and making the talk show circuit juuuuusst before throwing a history changing pick.

😆
 

pittpnthrs

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Just to be clear, I said league average with respect to fumbles. That doesn't mean league average overall. Keeping things in context is important.

If you only watch football in a Seattle vacuum, do not make comments about Pete Carroll or Geno Smith with respect to the rest of the league then. You just admitted you don't know anything about the rest of the league.

It's like everything I've said to you was just validated. Thanks.

What was meant was basing opinions on eye tests. I dont care what other QBs are doing. I only care about Seattles QB and i've watched him botch games at vital times more times than not.
 

pittpnthrs

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So how many of them are available to coach, answer the effing question for once rather then dodge it with your own pumped agenda. Oh and Mr. Eliminated never carried this team, defense, Lynch and Brown did, if he could see or use the middle of the field he may have had an argument, but he didn't and it took herculean effort by RB's and WR's to go into what Wilson threw them into since he can't throw to anyone in stride to make catches.

Lol. Every single season the age old question of 'who are you going to replace him with' is thrown around by his defenders like some motto on a crest and every single season there's a list of names given that could be valid replacements.

As for Wilson, you act as though he had Lynch and a great defense every year he played. For not seeing the middle of the field as you claim, the guy sure did win a helluva lot of games for Seattle. A ton in the 4th quarter when the playbook was scrapped. Lets just forget about that though as it doesnt fit your agenda.
 
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