Pay Kam

[Hawkfan77]

This isn't about wins or losses, it's about opening a Pandora's box of precedent caving into Kam's demands.

IF you pay Kam, then now or next off season you'll have 10-15 guys in John's office demanding new deals and future money moved into 2016 and 2017. It's a nightmare scenario for precedent, it's just not done.

I agree, it's all about precedent. One can't help but wonder if Kam/Bennett a result of caving* to Lynch last season? If so, it lends credence to the "don't set a precedent" idea.

* the front office claims they didn't "cave" to Lynch, that it was an unwritten agreement they had already, etc... hard to gauge the truth of that, though -- it might just be a spin they're putting on it in an attempt to pacify or deter future copycats. If they did cave, admitting it publicly does them zero good.

Lynch wasn't the first player to hold out under PC/JS. Chris Clemmons was prior to the start of 2012 season.

Clemons had 1 year left on his deal though, not 3 and Lynch was most likely actually going to retire. Kim's situation is not like those two.

If they cave to Kam, get ready for this garbage every off season with multiple players. Heck, Bennett might just walk out mid week and why not? I wouldn't blame him

 

[Sgt. Largent]

This isn't about wins or losses, it's about opening a Pandora's box of precedent caving into Kam's demands.

IF you pay Kam, then now or next off season you'll have 10-15 guys in John's office demanding new deals and future money moved into 2016 and 2017. It's a nightmare scenario for precedent, it's just not done.

I agree, it's all about precedent. One can't help but wonder if Kam/Bennett a result of caving* to Lynch last season? If so, it lends credence to the "don't set a precedent" idea.

* the front office claims they didn't "cave" to Lynch, that it was an unwritten agreement they had already, etc... hard to gauge the truth of that, though -- it might just be a spin they're putting on it in an attempt to pacify or deter future copycats. If they did cave, admitting it publicly does them zero good.

It's apples and oranges. Lynch had some future roster bonus that could be moved into 2014.

Kam is out of bonus and guaranteed money, thus the "I want a complete new deal or 2017 salary moved into 2016." Well he has 325k of 2017 roster bonus, but that's not going to make him happy. He's basically asking that most of his 2017 salary be moved into 2016...............which not only jacks his base salary way up, it gets him one year closer to free agency.

Why the hell would the Hawks do that? Gives them ZERO leverage next year.

 

[Exittium]

The team according to that article has budged, 3/4 of the way or 63%.. Kam wants to meet them halfway so he says.. But the hawks have gone further. So at this point if i was the hawks, id tell him take it or leave it otherwise enjoy sitting at home.

Best little dagger in that article

"But in Chancellor’s own words: LOB stands for “Love Our Brothers.” If you truly loved them, you wouldn’t leave them stranded over a difference of less than a million dollars.

Accept the deal. And your brothers will happily welcome you home."

 

[andyh64000]

Why the hell would the Hawks do that? Gives them ZERO leverage next year.

Because they want to win the Super Bowl? And why would they have less leverage next year? He is still under contract for the same number of years.

Edit: and it is apparent the Seahawks are willing to move money in to 2016 and guarantee it. It just came down to how much and apparently they were $900K away...shame on Kams Agent and the FO for not getting it done.

 

[justafan]

If Thomas,Sherman,Wagner,Bennet,Avril,Wright,Mebane and the rest of the D cant compete without Kam then we payed the wrong people.
Love to have him back but the D with this much talent shouldnt rely on one person at SS

 

[ringless]

Is it safe to assume Kam will not be playing this week if he reported as early as tomorrow? Or do you think he'd be on the field in a limited role?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Why the hell would the Hawks do that? Gives them ZERO leverage next year.

Because they want to win the Super Bowl? And why would they have less leverage next year? He is still under contract for the same number of years.

Edit: and it is apparent the Seahawks are willing to move money in to 2016 and guarantee it. It just came down to how much and apparently they were $900K away...shame on Kams Agent and the FO for not getting it done.

That's what Kam and his agent are saying, no one in the Hawks have said that. In fact, most of the national guys have said different, that the Hawk's are further apart.........thus Allen getting involved and saying that's enough, we're done talking.

You're not done talking if you're 900k apart, you're done talking when one party is being unreasonable. IMO that party is Kam, he wants to be paid like Earl, as a highest paid safety. That's 10M a year with most of it guaranteed. That ain't 900k apart.

 

[Hawkfan77]

Because they want to win the Super Bowl? And why would they have less leverage next year? He is still under contract for the same number of years.

Edit: and it is apparent the Seahawks are willing to move money in to 2016 and guarantee it. It just came down to how much and apparently they were $900K away...shame on Kams Agent and the FO for not getting it done.

Shame on the FO? Do you have any idea what the cap situation is like for next year or how many FAs the Hawks have? You have no idea what is going on behind the scenes, that stupid 900k figure is coming from some NFL network guy through Kam. No one knows the validity of it or what the FO has or hasn't offered.

It's mind boggling the amount of garbage people spew on these boards with no clear understanding of what they're actually saying.

 

[andyh64000]

Because they want to win the Super Bowl? And why would they have less leverage next year? He is still under contract for the same number of years.

Edit: and it is apparent the Seahawks are willing to move money in to 2016 and guarantee it. It just came down to how much and apparently they were $900K away...shame on Kams Agent and the FO for not getting it done.

Shame on the FO? Do you have any idea what the cap situation is like for next year or how many FAs the Hawks have? You have no idea what is going on behind the scenes, that stupid 900k figure is coming from some NFL network guy through Kam. No one knows the validity of it or what the FO has or hasn't offered.

It's mind boggling the amount of garbage people spew on these boards with no clear understanding of what they're actually saying.

There is blame here to go around. The FO's job is to get deals done and if they were that close then it is an opportunity lost.

The Levine article seems to confirm the club offer.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Because they want to win the Super Bowl? And why would they have less leverage next year? He is still under contract for the same number of years.

Edit: and it is apparent the Seahawks are willing to move money in to 2016 and guarantee it. It just came down to how much and apparently they were $900K away...shame on Kams Agent and the FO for not getting it done.

Shame on the FO? Do you have any idea what the cap situation is like for next year or how many FAs the Hawks have? You have no idea what is going on behind the scenes, that stupid 900k figure is coming from some NFL network guy through Kam. No one knows the validity of it or what the FO has or hasn't offered.

It's mind boggling the amount of garbage people spew on these boards with no clear understanding of what they're actually saying.

There is blame here to go around. The FO's job is to get deals done and if they were that close then it is an opportunity lost.

The Levine article seems to confirm the club offer.

They did get the deal done, two years ago.

You don't seem to understand the monster precedent being set here if the Hawks cave in, not only for their own players, but the entire league.

 

[c_hawkbob]

If we're wishing, why wish we pay Kam? why not wish Kam realizes he's being selfish and just reports to work and says "My Bad, now lets win a SB"

Is it OK to do both?

No because paying Kam hurts our cap and a bad cap is the best way to ruin and destroy the core of the team and close our SB window

You know, I think I'll do both just the same. I don't buy the notion that making similar concessions for Kam as we did with Beast would slam any windows shut. I still think a compromise can be reached and I still think that'd be the best thing for the team. I think Kam is the same sort of impact player Marshawn is and the precedent has already been set for that level of talent.

 

[MVP53]

Why the hell would the Hawks do that? Gives them ZERO leverage next year.

Because they want to win the Super Bowl? And why would they have less leverage next year? He is still under contract for the same number of years.

Edit: and it is apparent the Seahawks are willing to move money in to 2016 and guarantee it. It just came down to how much and apparently they were $900K away...shame on Kams Agent and the FO for not getting it done.

True, if you actually believe the Hawks offered to move up $3M in guaranteed money. I, for one, do not believe that for a second because, a) that would have been incredibly stupid of them, and b) it would have been nearly insane for Kam to have not accepted that.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

If we're wishing, why wish we pay Kam? why not wish Kam realizes he's being selfish and just reports to work and says "My Bad, now lets win a SB"

Is it OK to do both?

No because paying Kam hurts our cap and a bad cap is the best way to ruin and destroy the core of the team and close our SB window

You know, I think I'll do both just the same. I don't buy the notion that making similar concessions for Kam as we did with Beast would slam any windows shut. I still think a compromise can be reached and I still think that'd be the best thing for the team. I think Kam is the same sort of impact player Marshawn is and the precedent has already been set for that level of talent.

Again, all we did for Lynch was move 2M of 2015 roster bonus to 2014.

Kam only has 325k of roster bonus left on his deal, so please stop comparing the two. It's NOT the same, and NOT what Kam is asking for. Kam is asking that the majority of his 2017 salary be ALL paid in 2016. That's base salary, not roster bonus..................thus the terrible precedent not wanting to be set.

Understand? Cause I'm tired of explaining it.

 

[idahawks]

The NFL teams can cut a guy and just forget about the contract anytime they want. If a player can't live up to his contract, they void it. But didn't THEY agree to a contract too? But an employee try to do the same and everyone is yelling Screw Kam. Well, he has a right to do the exact opposite of what the team would do to him.

He's playing ABOVE contract, so he's voiding it, just like they'd do if he played BELOW it.

First of all the player and his agent negotiate the contract and if it says the team can cut him and not pay him, the player has reviewed this and agrees to it. The player could negotiate a contract that says the player get paid even if he gets cut from the team. This would be a100% guaranteed contract and the player can try to get the team to agree to it. This type of contract puts a lot of risk on the team so it will be much lower than a contract than one that only has a portion of the contract guaranteed. This is why most players agreed to only having a portion guaranteed. The more that's guaranteed usually the less the overall contract is.

The team can't just cut a player and not pay him, the team must still pay him his guaranteed portion even if he gets cut. The only way a player doesn't get his guaranteed portion is if he voluntarily quits like what Kam is doing.

The team never agreed to pay the full contract even if the player gets cut. Its clearly spelled out in the contract that the player doesn't get paid if he gets cut. Therefore the team isn't voiding the contract they are following the terms of the contract which allows them to exercise cutting the player if they want to and not pay him the unguaranteed portion of the contract. The player still gets the guaranteed portion.

If Kam had underperformed during the guaranteed portion of the contract the team could not ask him for some money back. So why should he ask for more money when he out performs his contract?

If a player outperforms their contract they have a chance to make that money up on their next contract. If they underperform their contract the team cannot get guaranteed money back.

For instance if Russell Wilson sucks this year and gets cut next year the hawks still have to pay him his guaranteed portion of the contract even if they cut him.[urlTargetBlank][/urlTargetBlank]

 

[Hawkfan77]

If we're wishing, why wish we pay Kam? why not wish Kam realizes he's being selfish and just reports to work and says "My Bad, now lets win a SB"

Is it OK to do both?

No because paying Kam hurts our cap and a bad cap is the best way to ruin and destroy the core of the team and close our SB window

You know, I think I'll do both just the same. I don't buy the notion that making similar concessions for Kam as we did with Beast would slam any windows shut. I still think a compromise can be reached and I still think that'd be the best thing for the team. I think Kam is the same sort of impact player Marshawn is and the precedent has already been set for that level of talent.

They aren't similar concessions though, so...

 

[c_hawkbob]

Is it OK to do both?

No because paying Kam hurts our cap and a bad cap is the best way to ruin and destroy the core of the team and close our SB window

You know, I think I'll do both just the same. I don't buy the notion that making similar concessions for Kam as we did with Beast would slam any windows shut. I still think a compromise can be reached and I still think that'd be the best thing for the team. I think Kam is the same sort of impact player Marshawn is and the precedent has already been set for that level of talent.

Again, all we did for Lynch was move 2M of 2015 roster bonus to 2014.

Kam only has 325k of roster bonus left on his deal, so please stop comparing the two. It's NOT the same, and NOT what Kam is asking for. Kam is asking that the majority of his 2017 salary be ALL paid in 2016. That's base salary, not roster bonus..................thus the terrible precedent not wanting to be set.

Understand? Cause I'm tired of explaining it.

You needn't feel obligated to explain anything, I know the score as well as you do.

Besides, nobody said "do the exact same thing", I said do the same kind of thing. Let the bean counters get creative, it's what they get paid for.

 

[Hawkfan77]

Again, all we did for Lynch was move 2M of 2015 roster bonus to 2014.

Kam only has 325k of roster bonus left on his deal, so please stop comparing the two. It's NOT the same, and NOT what Kam is asking for. Kam is asking that the majority of his 2017 salary be ALL paid in 2016. That's base salary, not roster bonus..................thus the terrible precedent not wanting to be set.

Understand? Cause I'm tired of explaining it.

I don't get why people can't understand this. I don't know if its laziness or ignorance or both. Its beyond frustrating when fans compare Kam to Lynch because the situation are not similar so thank you for posting and continually setting the record straight.

 

[tom sawyer]

 

[andyh64000]

Again, all we did for Lynch was move 2M of 2015 roster bonus to 2014.

Kam only has 325k of roster bonus left on his deal, so please stop comparing the two. It's NOT the same, and NOT what Kam is asking for. Kam is asking that the majority of his 2017 salary be ALL paid in 2016. That's base salary, not roster bonus..................thus the terrible precedent not wanting to be set.

Understand? Cause I'm tired of explaining it.

Is it really that different? Roster Bonus is not guaranteed money...the player just gets it when they cross a certain date (as opposed to 1/17th per game). The amount is different since Kam wants more than $2M so you are right there. And Lynch took that extra money and then renegotiated a new deal after the season. I am just not seeing this as a dangerous precedent since Kam (and Lynch) as players are unique (and whatever ends up happening I am sure it will not have been worth the holdout).

 

[c_hawkbob]

Again, all we did for Lynch was move 2M of 2015 roster bonus to 2014.

Kam only has 325k of roster bonus left on his deal, so please stop comparing the two. It's NOT the same, and NOT what Kam is asking for. Kam is asking that the majority of his 2017 salary be ALL paid in 2016. That's base salary, not roster bonus..................thus the terrible precedent not wanting to be set.

Understand? Cause I'm tired of explaining it.

I don't get why people can't understand this. I don't know if its laziness or ignorance or both. Its beyond frustrating when fans compare Kam to Lynch because the situation are not similar so thank you for posting and continually setting the record straight.

that's just it, they are similar, regardless of how much you don't want them to be.

They may not be identical, but the similarities are undeniable: both players under contact beyond the year in question and both players wanting money "moved" within the totality of their contract without increasing the total payout.

If you can't see the similarity you'r trying too hard not to.