Overpaying in trades

[seabowl]

Not sure if anyone else is thinking the same thing, but it just appears that we so often pay more than needs to be in trades. For instance, the last three trades were a good example. They traded Mike Jackson, who was a somewhat proven veteran cornerback for an absolute nobody. Darrel Taylor for a 6th. Then today they go ahead and trade a 6th for a player that has been average at best around the league (4th team in just a few years). I know a six round pick is not a lot but it’s likely this guy would’ve gotten cut anyway. Also Just curious if anyone else feels this way on top of the disaster trade for Jamal Adams etc. PS, yes I know he killed it with the Russ trade.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Meh, we do just fine.
Taylor sucked. Jackson played like crap last year.

 

[CostaRicaHawk]

I heard the last trade with the Jaguars was for a late round pick! Where did you see that it was a 6th round pick? Also I agree Jackson was going to be cut and the new LB knows how to tackle, and LB was a need.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Year 1 of Barrett is probably just as good overall as year 4 of Rhattigan. But his ability in coverage probably makes him more valuable as guys on the depth chart dont necessarily possess that skillset right now.

Trevin Gipson is nice, again in terms of overall skillset he’s just as good as Taylor. No he probably won’t flirt with double digit sacks but he also isn’t a total bitch in the run game. He brings a physical game with length and strength, can disrupt or defend passes, and his pass rush profile reminds me of Derrick Hall or an old Bruce Irvin in terms of more power than finesse.

When you dangle players on the market it probably means they aren’t great fits for your squad either mentally or physically, they just don’t have it. They most likely are going to get cut unless it’s a marquee player that is seeking the trade.

Seahawks basically traded if anything for more balance in their defensive system.

Jackson for a coverage centric MLB they didn’t have.

And flipped Taylor basically for Gipson, who is probably just as good if you are considering all around skillset and not just comparing them as pass-rushers.

Don’t really see the need to be complaining about these moves if the Seahawks could have got more or paid less they would have done so. Sometimes leverage isn’t in your favor.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Not sure if anyone else is thinking the same thing, but it just appears that we so often pay more than needs to be in trades. For instance, the last three trades were a good example. They traded Mike Jackson, who was a somewhat proven veteran cornerback for an absolute nobody. Darrel Taylor for a 6th. Then today they go ahead and trade a 6th for a player that has been average at best around the league (4th team in just a few years). I know a six round pick is not a lot but it’s likely this guy would’ve gotten cut anyway. Also Just curious if anyone else feels this way on top of the disaster trade for Jamal Adams etc. PS, yes I know he killed it with the Russ trade.

Late round selections on the trade market are essentially just vouchers redeemable for a single player on another team's roster bubble who you would prefer to secure for your own roster.

Usually, the player will seem like they're worth more than the draft selection is.

On the market, they are not worth more than the draft selection.

Trading is not a game of comparing asset value when it comes to late rounders being traded for players. It's an exercise in mutual benefit.

Take Mike Jackson for Mike Barrett, for instance. Seattle calls up Carolina. "Hey, you're hurting at corner, we're hurting at linebacker. Let's say we flip you Mike Jackson who doesn't have a place on this roster right now, and in return, you send us Mike Barrett who we were hoping to grab as a UDFA and who is already familiar with our head coach."

The value of that trade to Seattle isn't comparing the assets themselves, the value lies in the utility of what they received vs. the utility of what they traded away - and both Seattle and Carolina benefitted in this regard.

 

[Rat]

Taylor is trash. I imagine if they could have gotten more for him, they would have. If someone had offered a 5th a day earlier, he likely would have been gone then, even if it was to the Rams or Niners.

I did think Jackson was worth a little more than what we got. We probably could have done better if we had traded him earlier, when more teams had spaces to fill, but I assume he was expected to stay a Seahawk going into the offseason. Something changed, and he became vulnerable.

Players don't always go for what they're worth. Somebody has to be willing to pay that.

 

[CPHawk]

Meh, we do just fine.
Taylor sucked. Jackson played like crap last year.

Jackson has to be one of the most overrated guys we have had the last few years. For some reason the local media loved him.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

No doubt, never thought he was that great.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Taylor is trash. I imagine if they could have gotten more for him, they would have. If someone had offered a 5th a day earlier, he likely would have been gone then, even if it was to the Rams or Niners.

I did think Jackson was worth a little more than what we got. We probably could have better if we had traded him earlier, when more teams had spaces to fill, but I assume he was expected to stay a Seahawk going into the offseason. Something changed, and he became vulnerable.

Players don't always go for what they're worth. Somebody has to be willing to pay that.

Good point. Probably could have snagged at least a 5th for Jackson had they done the trade a week earlier, imo.

 

[chrispy]

Connor Williams for 3-6M (while getting 2.4M and trade capital back by unloading NHarris) gets JS all the leeway he wants in my opinion this off season. These latest trades were to address specific situations so it's probably better to avoid bidding wars and arguing with agents on new contracts that could stretch out a week more. Just get them in for the entire 2 weeks before kickoff.

 

[DarkVictory23]

Trading is not a game of comparing asset value when it comes to late rounders being traded for players. It's an exercise in mutual benefit.

Exactly. Mike Jackson was, in all likelihood, going to get cut. Once he's cut, a team like Carolina can get him without giving us anything.

On the flipside, the LB we grabbed, is there a good chance he gets cut by Carolina? Yeah, but we might not be the only team interested in signing him if he's on the open market.

We get a player we want for one we don't.

That's not overpaying, that's exactly what you want your team to be doing as you close in on the final 53.

 

[LeveeBreak]

Exactly. Mike Jackson was, in all likelihood, going to get cut. Once he's cut, a team like Carolina can get him without giving us anything.

On the flipside, the LB we grabbed, is there a good chance he gets cut by Carolina? Yeah, but we might not be the only team interested in signing him if he's on the open market.

We get a player we want for one we don't.

That's not overpaying, that's exactly what you want your team to be doing as you close in on the final 53.

Stop making sense...it frazzles the weak minded on the forum.

 

[MORGULON]

Not sure if anyone else is thinking the same thing, but it just appears that we so often pay more than needs to be in trades. For instance, the last three trades were a good example. They traded Mike Jackson, who was a somewhat proven veteran cornerback for an absolute nobody. Darrel Taylor for a 6th. Then today they go ahead and trade a 6th for a player that has been average at best around the league (4th team in just a few years). I know a six round pick is not a lot but it’s likely this guy would’ve gotten cut anyway. Also Just curious if anyone else feels this way on top of the disaster trade for Jamal Adams etc. PS, yes I know he killed it with the Russ trade.

No . At this point , I can't hold JS/MM accountable for over paying or miss reading the market and compensation.

Respectfully, what do you know that JS doesn't ? It's easy for us to critique after the fact. They gave up a 6th rounder to New England to get Michael Jackson ,had him play for a few years and then traded him for a 6th. Not too bad eh?

Now on to Darrell Taylor . He was drafted too high , there's no doubt about it. They stuck with him maybe a year too long (PC) but I think he'd have been cut tomorrow anyways . So they traded him a week early and picked up at least a 6th . I don't hate that.

Now they take (1) of their (2) 6ths and trade for a guy they think they can work with before he's cut so they don't lose him , especially since Nwousu is hurt again .

I remember a jag Seattle picked up many seasons ago from Philadelphia. He was a back up, playing out of position,no one knew anything about ,and what the hell was JS thinking ?

Cris Clemmons

 

[olyfan63]

Year 1 of Barrett is probably just as good overall has year 4 of Rhattigan. But his ability in coverage probably makes him more valuable as guys on the depth don’t necessarily possess that skillset right now.

Trevin Gipson is nice, again in terms of overall skillset he’s just as good as Taylor. No he probably won’t flirt with double digit sacks but he also isn’t a total bitch in the run game. He brings a physical game with length and strength, can disrupt or defend passes, and his pass rush profile reminds me of Derrick Hall or an old Bruce Irvin in terms of more power than finesse.

When you dangle players on the market it probably means they aren’t great fits for your squad either mentally or physically, they just don’t have it. They most likely are going to get cut unless it’s a marquee player that is seeking the trade.

Seahawks basically traded if anything for more balance in their defensive system. Jackson for a coverage centric MLB they didn’t have.

And flipped Taylor basically for Gipson, who is probably just as good if you are considering all around skillset and not just comparing them as pass-rushers.

Don’t really see the need to be complaining about these moves if the Seahawks could have got more or paid less they would have done so. Sometimes leverage isn’t in your favor.

Way to give 'em the bird!

"Give the bird" v. Pacific NW obscure usage, for a member of the Pandion Haliaetus species to express a well formed opinion, such as "that's my f--kin fish" or "Darrell Taylor is the opponent's bitch in the run game".

Seriously, I appreciate your analysis, and fills in the the bits and pieces a bit more from what I know.
I found a nice pic of your namesake, and he's even got one talon raised.

 

[seabowl]

I heard the last trade with the Jaguars was for a late round pick! Where did you see that it was a 6th round pick? Also I agree Jackson was going to be cut and the new LB knows how to tackle, and LB was a need.

The Seahawks sent an undisclosed draft pick to the Jaguars for Gipson, which various media reports listed as a sixth-round pick.

 

[seabowl]

No . At this point , I can't hold JS/MM accountable for over paying or miss reading the market and compensation.

Respectfully, what do you know that JS doesn't ? It's easy for us to critique after the fact. They gave up a 6th rounder to New England to get Michael Jackson ,had him play for a few years and then traded him for a 6th. Not too bad eh?

Now on to Darrell Taylor . He was drafted too high , there's no doubt about it. They stuck with him maybe a year too long (PC) but I think he'd have been cut tomorrow anyways . So they traded him a week early and picked up at least a 6th . I don't hate that.

Now they take (1) of their (2) 6ths and trade for a guy they think they can work with before he's cut so they don't lose him , especially since Nwousu is hurt again .

I remember a jag Seattle picked up many seasons ago from Philadelphia. He was a back up, playing out of position,no one knew anything about ,and what the hell was JS thinking ?

Cris Clemmons

Respectfully, as fans, we may not see these people play in practice, but we certainly see them playing in games. I just think it’s a stretch for a 6 year college linebacker to pan out and he’s traded for a player that seems to be serviceable. Also, do you think a guy who is now going onto his fourth team in the new linebacker they got is equivalent to Darrell Taylor who had 9 1/2 sacks two years ago? I don’t. Not saying Seattle should’ve kept Taylor, but they should’ve tried to unload him earlier. Also, as you stated, Taylor was way overdrafted. Many of us thought that at the time as well, and we were right. Lastly, many of us thought the Jamal Adams trade was a ridiculous amount of compensation to give especially for a player that stated he wanted out of his current team, and on top of that, knowing that he would want to be paid an enormous amount of money. It was a disaster of a trade. I’m not saying JS is not good but a number of his more recent trades sans Russell Wilson, have not looked strong from the onset.

 

[CostaRicaHawk]

The Seahawks sent an undisclosed draft pick to the Jaguars for Gipson, which various media reports listed as a sixth-round pick.

I have read everyone that has come up and googled. Please find one that says it was a 6th and post a copy

 

[NoGain]

I think we can all agree that the JA's trade was an overpay.

 

[MORGULON]

Respectfully, as fans, we may not see these people play in practice, but we certainly see them playing in games. I just think it’s a stretch for a 6 year college linebacker to pan out and he’s traded for a player that seems to be serviceable. Also, do you think a guy who is now going onto his fourth team in the new linebacker they got is equivalent to Darrell Taylor who had 9 1/2 sacks two years ago? I don’t. Not saying Seattle should’ve kept Taylor, but they should’ve tried to unload him earlier. Also, as you stated, Taylor was way overdrafted. Many of us thought that at the time as well, and we were right. Lastly, many of us thought the Jamal Adams trade was a ridiculous amount of compensation to give especially for a player that stated he wanted out of his current team, and on top of that, knowing that he would want to be paid an enormous amount of money. It was a disaster of a trade. I’m not saying JS is not good but a number of his more recent trades sans Russell Wilson, have not looked strong from the onset.

I respect your point.

All I'm saying is I'm looking at this as a new regime , even though JS was here with PC.

I think JS is finally getting to be an NFL GM. He's bloody earned it. He's building a fooking monster.

Ive moved on from the Jamal Adams, Darrell Taylor fiascos.
And any other fiasco I forgot to mention.

 

[seabowl]

I have read everyone that has come up and googled. Please find one that says it was a 6th and post a copy

Nwosu sprains MCL; Seahawks trade for Gipson

The Seahawks, who will be without edge rusher Uchenna Nwosu for two to six weeks, have acquired outside linebacker Trevis Gipson in a trade with the Jaguars.

africa.espn.com