O Line

Seymour

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Jville":1rm1g8ir said:
It helps to know what my post was responding too as a matter of courtesy ......... :roll:

One snap out of 50+ game snaps was my response to the tweeted snap >>>>>>

It would also be nice to understand my point. :roll:

1 snap out of 50 that JUST so happens to very well represent the last 8 years of what Wilson deals with more than any other franchise QB.

That 1 in 50 is the NORM here for 8 years. :177692:
 

Jville

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Seymour":3py0vt1c said:
Jville":3py0vt1c said:
It helps to know what my post was responding too as a matter of courtesy ......... :roll:

One snap out of 50+ game snaps was my response to the tweeted snap >>>>>>

It would also be nice to understand my point. :roll:

1 snap out of 50 that JUST so happens to very well represent the last 8 years of what Wilson deals with more than any other franchise QB.

That 1 in 50 is the NORM here for 8 years. :177692:

Your posts are so confused. I'll decline to attempt to make any sense out of it.
 

Seymour

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Sgt. Largent":1cukngaf said:
Seymour":1cukngaf said:
Let me re-phrase that. Russell Wilson has never even had AVERAGE pass blocking his entire career in Seattle.
[/color]:

Why would you draft, acquire and develop the personnel for a good pass blocking O-line when your entire offensive philosophy is predicated on running the football.

I get it, we'd all love Pete to be more creative, flexible and versatile when it comes to how he builds, develops and how he schemes. But dude's the oldest coach in the league, that's not going to happen.

When healthy, this team can compete with anyone, and that's the good news. Bad news? When this team's not healthy and hitting on all cylinders? We get destroyed by much better coaches, even with inferior personnel.

That's on Pete, no question about it.

Because it's only 50% of it and needs to be considered possibly?

Why pay Russ top dollar should be your question. :?:

Reason Pete does and needs Russ is because Russ IS his Oline when he runs. Now he doesn't run and the whole thing blows up in Pete's face.
 

Seymour

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Jville":2xpa9lnd said:
Seymour":2xpa9lnd said:
Jville":2xpa9lnd said:
It helps to know what my post was responding too as a matter of courtesy ......... :roll:

One snap out of 50+ game snaps was my response to the tweeted snap >>>>>>

It would also be nice to understand my point. :roll:

1 snap out of 50 that JUST so happens to very well represent the last 8 years of what Wilson deals with more than any other franchise QB.

That 1 in 50 is the NORM here for 8 years. :177692:

Your posts are so confused. I'll decline to attempt to make any sense out of it.

Nope, just you seem confused.
Let me simplify this for you. You say 1 out of 50 to refute that this is NOT the norm. I posted stats saying and proving this IS THE NORM.
 

Sgt. Largent

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Seymour":13h6bbzn said:
Why pay Russ top dollar should be your question. :?: .

Because without Russell we're a 5-7 win team. He's literally the ONLY thing keeping this mediocre roster competing week in and week out.

That's why.
 

Seymour

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Sgt. Largent":3expb6bz said:
Seymour":3expb6bz said:
Why pay Russ top dollar should be your question. :?: .

Because without Russell we're a 5-7 win team. He's literally the ONLY thing keeping this mediocre roster competing week in and week out.

That's why.

Invalid statement IMO. That depends entirely on who you replace him with. You cant just throw Geno's name in there and not spend the money elsewhere.

Not supporting Wilson with at least an average protecting oline is like putting retread tires on your Ferrari. It's asinine!! :177692:
 

John63

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Seymour":1eyq84ea said:
Sgt. Largent":1eyq84ea said:
Seymour":1eyq84ea said:
Why pay Russ top dollar should be your question. :?: .

Because without Russell we're a 5-7 win team. He's literally the ONLY thing keeping this mediocre roster competing week in and week out.

That's why.

Invalid statement IMO. That depends entirely on who you replace him with. You cant just throw Geno's name in there and not spend the money elsewhere.

Not supporting Wilson with at least an average protecting oline is like putting retread tires on your Ferrari. It's asinine!! :177692:

There are very few QBs who could have had the success Wilson has had behind this oline, in this system. This system is built around the run and for the run PC has said it, the fact Wilson is performing at the levels he is given that and the pathetic pass blocking is incredible. There are few Qbs who could have done as good.
 

Sgt. Largent

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Seymour":17j8bazh said:
Sgt. Largent":17j8bazh said:
Seymour":17j8bazh said:
Why pay Russ top dollar should be your question. :?: .

Because without Russell we're a 5-7 win team. He's literally the ONLY thing keeping this mediocre roster competing week in and week out.

That's why.

Invalid statement IMO. That depends entirely on who you replace him with. You cant just throw Geno's name in there and not spend the money elsewhere.

Not supporting Wilson with at least an average protecting oline is like putting retread tires on your Ferrari. It's asinine!! :177692:

That's how the Rams rolled last year..........build an elite O-line to block for your mediocre QB, and it fell apart this year quicker then a K-Mart deck chair.

So sorry, I can't buy not paying an elite QB to mask for your offense's deficiencies over trying to build an elite O-line year after year.

Because the reality is if you have an elite QB we've always got a chance to win, every game, every year. Pumping money and development into five guys is much much harder than one if you can find that elite QB.

You can't just say "well we can find another good QB, why pay Russell?" There are 25 teams currently trying to do what you're proposing, and not successfully.
 

Seymour

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Not asking for an elite oline. Read again.

Average would be awesome!
 

Sgt. Largent

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Seymour":430v5m0r said:
Not asking for an elite oline. Read again.

Average would be awesome!

What you're really asking for is a new head coach that implements a more dynamic and balanced playcalling scheme.

Because it'd be insane to spend the time and cap resources into developing a better pass blocking O-line on such a run heavy offensive team.
 

John63

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Sgt. Largent":2epxi4bc said:
Seymour":2epxi4bc said:
Sgt. Largent":2epxi4bc said:
Seymour":2epxi4bc said:
Why pay Russ top dollar should be your question. :?: .

Because without Russell we're a 5-7 win team. He's literally the ONLY thing keeping this mediocre roster competing week in and week out.

That's why.

Invalid statement IMO. That depends entirely on who you replace him with. You cant just throw Geno's name in there and not spend the money elsewhere.

Not supporting Wilson with at least an average protecting oline is like putting retread tires on your Ferrari. It's asinine!! :177692:

That's how the Rams rolled last year..........build an elite O-line to block for your mediocre QB, and it fell apart this year quicker then a K-Mart deck chair.

So sorry, I can't buy not paying an elite QB to mask for your offense's deficiencies over trying to build an elite O-line year after year.

Because the reality is if you have an elite QB we've always got a chance to win, every game, every year. Pumping money and development into five guys is much much harder than one if you can find that elite QB.

You can't just say "well we can find another good QB, why pay Russell?" There are 25 teams currently trying to do what you're proposing, and not successfully.

Again given how long they have had, even back when Wilson was paid below market value they could have built an Avg pass blocking oline, but they have CHOSEN not to. PC has said he puts a premium on run blocking not pass blocking
 

Seymour

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Sgt. Largent":3k5lft9j said:
Seymour":3k5lft9j said:
Not asking for an elite oline. Read again.

Average would be awesome!

What you're really asking for is a new head coach that implements a more dynamic and balanced playcalling scheme.

Because it'd be insane to spend the time and cap resources into developing a better pass blocking O-line on such a run heavy offensive team
.

Wrong!!

Use facts and don't just shoot from the hip. :roll:

We pass 53.4% of the time this season. The niners run more than we do yet they pass protect far better (#9 in pass blocking)
 

John63

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Seymour":3c7h90cg said:
Sgt. Largent":3c7h90cg said:
Seymour":3c7h90cg said:
Not asking for an elite oline. Read again.

Average would be awesome!

What you're really asking for is a new head coach that implements a more dynamic and balanced playcalling scheme.

Because it'd be insane to spend the time and cap resources into developing a better pass blocking O-line on such a run heavy offensive team
.

Wrong!!

Use facts and don't just shoot from the hip. :roll:

We pass 53.4% of the time this season.

I am looking for a ON to be creative with the pass play we run. Our pass system is generic as hell, my 12 year old neive can tell what's coming. Early on when the run game was struggling we have layer routes, short, int, long, we had check downs. Then when our run game started going we went back to the run run throw long. Last game we needed 4 yards and yet every Wr went 20+. There is nothing wrong with 5-6 yards pass and first downs, well except to PC who has said he does not like that. But guess what that forces them to creep up and then you can go over the top.

We no longer do anything to get guys open like picks or crossing routes, we are back to the old run and send everyone long and then hope Wilson can make magic.

Run a real NFL caliber passing attack, that is not too much to ask.
 

Sgt. Largent

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Seymour":3ouchxe0 said:
Sgt. Largent":3ouchxe0 said:
Seymour":3ouchxe0 said:
Not asking for an elite oline. Read again.

Average would be awesome!

What you're really asking for is a new head coach that implements a more dynamic and balanced playcalling scheme.

Because it'd be insane to spend the time and cap resources into developing a better pass blocking O-line on such a run heavy offensive team
.

Wrong!!

Use facts and don't just shoot from the hip. :roll:

We pass 53.4% of the time this season. The niners run more than we do yet they pass protect far better (#9 in pass blocking)

Yes, that's good for 28th in the league, and you're comparing us to the Niners who have had a bajillion first and 2nd round picks to build their entire roster, with what, three first rounders on their line?

IMO we'd have to be in the 60-65% pass ratio before I'd agree with you...........and you know it's totally OK Seymour to just have discussions with people on here without being a complete condescending ass with each and every post.

No need to stick an eye roll emoji into every post, or put exclamation points on every sentence like someone just slapped your mom and you're incensed.

You can totally just type out responses like an well mannered adult. That's totally allowed. We're all on the same team bro.
 

Seymour

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The eye roll won't go away with this topic and you going clear back to when you defended Cable to the end. One for the road. :roll:

:twisted:
 

Sgt. Largent

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Seymour":20vs4bbm said:
The eye roll won't go away with this topic and you going clear back to when you defended Cable to the end. One for the road. :roll:

:twisted:

Wouldn't expect anything more. On brand.
 

Tamerlane

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Let's have some perspective here. The offensive line for much of yesterday's game was down to 3 backups and 2 starters. Think about that. For those not named backup Jamarco Jones, facing the #1 sacker in the entire NFL, the offensive line was responsible for all of 1 hit and 4 hurries yesterday according to PFF! Russell Wilson was credited with 2 sacks and 1 hurry. The average "time to sack" for Wilson was 4.22 seconds.

The offensive line and the team as a whole were simply decimated by injuries. The line had improved throughout the year -- as I posted in another thread from week 9-15 they had the #8 pass blocking efficiency. They weathered the storm incredibly well losing their starting center, top pass blocking tight ends, and substituting guards from time to time (even against Aaron Donald). But losing their leader and best lineman, by far, on top of everything else was just too much.

Some who cling to their preconceived notions don't want to hear facts. It's easier to man-rage against Pete, Schotty, the OL, or whoever is next in line. With team health on life support, I guess it's the perfect time for bitter cynics to crawl out of the woodwork with agendas. Down to one deep roster running back, we saw what it means to put the team entirely on the back of Russell Wilson and to live the Seahawks Twitter "analytics" dream. "Running backs don't matter". "Passing is more efficient - do a lot more, can't say how much, but do it a LOT more". "Russell Wilson is the best evar, just put the ball in his hands and the magic will happen - trust our statistics over any football common sense you think you know". The result yesterday: 31 passing attemps, 20 rushing. 1/12 third down conversions. Utter offensive deadlock. Cardinals get 35 mins time of possession and 70 plays on offense.

The problem with the pass obssessed, Russell-Wilson-does-no-wrong, "Pete just holds him back" group is that they never, ever allow themselves to be disproven with facts or evidence. They have an unfalsifiable logic. When the team gets to 11-3 running the gauntlet of injuries and the most difficult schedule in the league, doing so with a balanced offense ranked #2 and #7 in pass/run DVOA, the reply from yahoos like Ben Baldwin is to suddenly move the goalposts of success to a brand new HYPER-ADVANCED super-metric called "Point Differential!" Think about this: the first rule of so-called "advanced" football statistics 101, which these guys will lecture you about at length normally, is to account for opponent strength! Like for example Football Outsider's DVOA measures. But no, all of the sudden, Ben Baldwin, faced with too much Seahawks success for his liking, becomes a die-hard convert to Point Differential, which takes no account of strengths of schedule. This conversion was of course necessary for him to hold on to his precious agendas. "Seahawks games are too close, should have passed more, pretenders lol".

However, as soon as the Seahawks abandon the run, by choice (e.g. first two games last year) or by necessity (e.g. yesterday, most of 2017), and it doesn't turn out so well, the reply from the same peanut gallery is of course to deflect and blame anything but their own stupid ideas: head coach too old, the offensive line, offensive play calls (before anyone has even seen film of WR routes). Nevermind that most of these basement "statisticians" can't distinguish one WR route from another, don't acknowledge how often Wilson checks in to run plays, and so on. It's farcical really.

I'm not blaming Wilson, by the way. He's a real warrior and did his best yesterday with a depleted and decapitated roster forced into a perilous one-dimensionality that was never going to work at the best of times. But this team will be (and should be) designed for a balace of run, pass, and defense and has had to do so on a -$35m cap budget, which is a challenge. Those who want the Green Bay Packers model of league high QB salary + league high OL salaries (but still one injury away from the precipice), leaving next to nothing for the rest of the team, you might as well settle in for the long run because that won't be happening on the Seahawks. Thankfully.

NFL rosters are by necessity top heavy and the Seahawks by some measures are literally missing most of their high impact players: by PFF scores 4 out of the top 6 graded starters on offense and 4 out of the top 6 graded starters on defense. I don't know why it's so hard to appreciate how devastating this is.
 

scutterhawk

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John63":3na80jw1 said:
Jville":3na80jw1 said:
John ........ I don't believe you can see beyond Russell Wilson. For you, the rest of the team is but a cast of extras.

And that's ok. It's your choice.


Lol yeah that's it, has to be could not be I have a point. Benne watching, playing or coaching over 50 years. I see the whole team better than most of you. I see a team not prepared, not disciplined. Not built around it's best player, relying on last 2nd heroics to win games. Un Willing to go with what works, adjust, undisciplined, unwilling g to fix pro lems that have existed for years. Winning regular season games but never really a contender. That's what they have become. Which is a shame because they could be more if we did what good teams do and adjust to what we have, rather than doing what they want.
Pete's way got us our first Lombardi, so I'm STILL choosing Pete over you.....It's his credibility that aces you out.
 

scutterhawk

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Tamerlane":62j3b1uu said:
Let's have some perspective here. The offensive line for much of yesterday's game was down to 3 backups and 2 starters. Think about that. For those not named backup Jamarco Jones, facing the #1 sacker in the entire NFL, the offensive line was responsible for all of 1 hit and 4 hurries yesterday according to PFF! Russell Wilson was credited with 2 sacks and 1 hurry. The average "time to sack" for Wilson was 4.22 seconds.

The offensive line and the team as a whole were simply decimated by injuries. The line had improved throughout the year -- as I posted in another thread from week 9-15 they had the #8 pass blocking efficiency. They weathered the storm incredibly well losing their starting center, top pass blocking tight ends, and substituting guards from time to time (even against Aaron Donald). But losing their leader and best lineman, by far, on top of everything else was just too much.

Some who cling to their preconceived notions don't want to hear facts. It's easier to man-rage against Pete, Schotty, the OL, or whoever is next in line. With team health on life support, I guess it's the perfect time for bitter cynics to crawl out of the woodwork with agendas. Down to one deep roster running back, we saw what it means to put the team entirely on the back of Russell Wilson and to live the Seahawks Twitter "analytics" dream. "Running backs don't matter". "Passing is more efficient - do a lot more, can't say how much, but do it a LOT more". "Russell Wilson is the best evar, just put the ball in his hands and the magic will happen - trust our statistics over any football common sense you think you know". The result yesterday: 31 passing attemps, 20 rushing. 1/12 third down conversions. Utter offensive deadlock. Cardinals get 35 mins time of possession and 70 plays on offense.

The problem with the pass obssessed, Russell-Wilson-does-no-wrong, "Pete just holds him back" group is that they never, ever allow themselves to be disproven with facts or evidence. They have an unfalsifiable logic. When the team gets to 11-3 running the gauntlet of injuries and the most difficult schedule in the league, doing so with a balanced offense ranked #2 and #7 in pass/run DVOA, the reply from yahoos like Ben Baldwin is to suddenly move the goalposts of success to a brand new HYPER-ADVANCED super-metric called "Point Differential!" Think about this: the first rule of so-called "advanced" football statistics 101, which these guys will lecture you about at length normally, is to account for opponent strength! Like for example Football Outsider's DVOA measures. But no, all of the sudden, Ben Baldwin, faced with too much Seahawks success for his liking, becomes a die-hard convert to Point Differential, which takes no account of strengths of schedule. This conversion was of course necessary for him to hold on to his precious agendas. "Seahawks games are too close, should have passed more, pretenders lol".

However, as soon as the Seahawks abandon the run, by choice (e.g. first two games last year) or by necessity (e.g. yesterday, most of 2017), and it doesn't turn out so well, the reply from the same peanut gallery is of course to deflect and blame anything but their own stupid ideas: head coach too old, the offensive line, offensive play calls (before anyone has even seen film of WR routes). Nevermind that most of these basement "statisticians" can't distinguish one WR route from another, don't acknowledge how often Wilson checks in to run plays, and so on. It's farcical really.

I'm not blaming Wilson, by the way. He's a real warrior and did his best yesterday with a depleted and decapitated roster forced into a perilous one-dimensionality that was never going to work at the best of times. But this team will be (and should be) designed for a balace of run, pass, and defense and has had to do so on a -$35m cap budget, which is a challenge. Those who want the Green Bay Packers model of league high QB salary + league high OL salaries (but still one injury away from the precipice), leaving next to nothing for the rest of the team, you might as well settle in for the long run because that won't be happening on the Seahawks. Thankfully.

NFL rosters are by necessity top heavy and the Seahawks by some measures are literally missing most of their high impact players: by PFF scores 4 out of the top 6 graded starters on offense and 4 out of the top 6 graded starters on defense. I don't know why it's so hard to appreciate how devastating this is.
This is a GREAT rundown of the problems that has been smothering Pete & ALL his Coaches, ^^ and NOT JUST in yesterdays game either. :irishdrinkers: to you Tamerlane.
 
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