Not exactly a ringing endorsement from PC on Moffitt

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FlyingGreg

FlyingGreg

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HawkAroundTheClock":2ogzt7js said:
Lots of people writing off Moffitt; not one of them can point to in-game performance where he was sub-par. Not one. The big negative against him is... he's funny? Fer real?

Sweezy has been given so much slack for "potential" and "high ceiling." More than any Seahawk in recent memory, all because of the underdog factor. Meanwhile, he flat-out screwed up often on game days.

I'm rooting for all the Hawks and trusting our coaches to make the right call. Some people here are really reaching on this one. If you want to parse Pete's presser, you could focus on the "J.R. is looking better than last year and he's trying to hold (Moffitt) off." So no ringing endorsement for Moffitt, but none for Sweezy either. No real news here.

Moffitt is serviceable... but the big negative is he is struggling to win the job over a defensive linemen conversion project. That's just fact.

That said, I share your concern with Sweezy. He scares me in pass protection.
 

v1rotv2

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olyfan63":33omgobb said:
I've never noticed Moffitt giving a poor effort on any given play. Not that I am all-seeing; certainly not. In fact, the one time I looked specifically for Moffitt, to see how he was doing, in the Chicago game, he looked really good and had some key blocks on the two game-winning drives.
Just because Moffitt comes across as a goofball buffoon in Real Rob, that has no correlation with his ACTUAL effort in practices and/or games.
Sort of like the Daley Thompson (irreverent British Olympic Decathlon gold medalist) without the athletic talent.
As other posters noted, the issue with Moffitt is simply comparative lack of athletic ability relative to other options the Seahawks have.
The goofballness is an irrelevant side issue, and had he Pro Bowl level talent, we would all be talking about how engaging his offbeat sense of humor is.

Well if it's not effort it must be skill, mechanics and/or knowledge that must be holding him back. He sure has not lived up to expectations.
 

ivotuk

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Just for kicks I looked at the roster and my guess, if they keep 10 OL is it shakes down like this:

Starters:
76 Okung, Russell T 6-5 310 25 4

67 McQuistan, Paul G/T 6-6 315 30 8

60 Unger, Max C 6-5 305 27 5

74 Moffitt, John G 6-4 319 26 3

68 Giacomini, Breno T 6-7 318 27 6

Backups:
64 Sweezy, J.R. G 6-5 298 24 2

77 Carpenter, James G 6-5 321 24 3

61 Jeanpierre, Lemuel G/C 6-3 301 26 4

Keepers:
78 Bailey, Alvin T 6-3 320 21 R

73 Bowie, Michael T 6-4 332 21 R

P.S./Cut
62 Seymour, Ryan G 6-4 301 23 R

66 Smith, Jared G 6-4 302 23 R

75 Person, Mike T 6-4 299 25 3
 

kearly

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Scottemojo":1q76h1hf said:
Not something I can include in a forum discussion, but if you ever see Rishaw interviewed he is the dumbest sounding person on the planet. His pass blocking doesn't look smart either. Seriously, I wonder if the guy has the brains to adjust to line calls. Does the coaching staff care? Not if a guy can play. See: Bruce Irvin. But by and large we have a articulate team. It is one of the more notable differences between the Hawks and Niners.

That's a shame. I'd put Irvin (whom I loved as a prospect), Curry, and Carpenter in that dumb as rocks category too, and they make up 3/5 of our first round draft picks since 2009. Not surprising that the two guys who give great interviews, Okung and Thomas, have been by far the best 1st rounders of that group.

I can't comment on the line calls, but then again any lineman playing against 3rd stringers in vanilla schemed preseason games tends to have very little to call/watch out for.

OL and DL are IMO two positions where IQ matters less, though center is probably an exception. Really, at those positions it is all about athleticism and nastiness with a sprinkling of technique, experience and chemistry. Alvin Bailey is brand new to tackle and already looks terrific, because he's got the most important part down- athletic talent plus (consistent) nastiness. He never takes a down off (well, other than the final garbage time drive, technically).

OL is a position that requires relative perfection to be considered average, even the worst linemen in the game probably only allow a sack 10 times a season in 500+ opportunities. The good news is, OL have a shitload of major advantages over DL: knowing the snap count, less exertion, can give ground and still win, QB play can make them look better, etc. What we are seeing with Bailey is that it doesn't take much to "win" your matchup, it's really more a question of consistency. And Bailey (so far) has looked extremely consistent. Consistency is where Giacomini, Sweezy, and Johnson struggle.

I remember being down on Anthony Davis (2010 draft) because he lacked technique, was a stiff athlete, and seemed dumb as a pile of rocks. What Davis did have was a truckload of raw power and an occasional mean streak. Davis was selected by the 49ers in the first round and has started at tackle every game since, just recently signing a big contract extension. I still think he's the same flawed guy he's always been, but in SF that team has shown the value of stockpiling road graders. It's about so much more than just running or passing the football. It's about setting the tone, establishing alpha-male status on the field and making opponents play with their tails between their legs in the 4th quarter (think 49ers-Packers in the playoffs or Seahawks-Dallas in week 2).

I see Johnson as a classic 49ers type OL. The 49ers adjusted sack rate was nearly the worst in the NFL last season, and yet the 49ers are commonly cited as the NFL's best offensive line. Their pro-bowl LG, Mike Iupati, is similar to Johnson as well. He's a mauler with issues in pass protection.

Our offense is a bit different since Wilson's performance dips when the interior of the pocket collapses, and he holds the ball longer than anyone, but it does seem like Seattle has a similar philosophy and I don't think Johnson would have too high a bar to clear to make it in pass pro (as evidenced by JR Sweezy and Breno Giacomini).

In terms of smarts, Irvin probably isn't smart enough or instinctive enough to be another Chris Clemons, but neither is Aldon Smith and the 49ers etched out a role where he could be productive. Something Carroll and Harbaugh have in common is their ability to manufacture production out of raw athletes.

I am not anti-Moffitt at all, but right now he's a limited athlete surrounded by rare athletes. He is out of place on our line. He has about as much a niche with our current OL identity as Justin Forsett had with Tom Cable's downhill smashmouth rushing attack. Forsett could have value on a team like the Jaguars (his current team) or the Titans who operate with relatively finesse rushing attacks. Similarly, I could see Moffitt having real value elsewhere on a line that doesn't put a premium on physical domination. I think Moffitt has many years left in the NFL, I just think his days are numbered with us.
 

HawkAroundTheClock

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Scott & Greg, good points. Hey, if J.R. can fulfill the potential, I'll be psyched out of my mind. As long as we see it on game day, I'm all for it. Until then, I trust Moffitt more. If Sweezy had made enough of a jump at this point, he would be the clear #1.

So if it's neck-and-neck in 3 weeks, I would go with the guy who showed up better on gameday and has better feet & hands. I would hope that the conversion project continues to develop; I'd get him plenty of reps when we're running games out and I'd hope he could take over by next season.

Bottom line is, however it happens, I would love to see "elite O-line" added to the elite secondary, elite QB, and elite RB that we already have.
 

Largent80

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I think people here overvalue players based on where they were picked in the draft, and Moffitt is one of them.
 

Happypuppy

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kearly":yf45bixd said:
He is out of place on our line. He has about as much a niche with our current OL identity as Justin Forsett had with Tom Cable's downhill smash mouth rushing attack.


This is spot on. Moffit by his own self analysis is a technician , not a brawler. The interviews with Cable has made it clear he like s to wear and beat down opponents.

Moffitt I think is the square peg in a round hole. His game does not fit. He is more a Holmgren type lineman would have found him a better fit I suspect
 

Tech Worlds

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Happypuppy":8q777xi7 said:
kearly":8q777xi7 said:
He is out of place on our line. He has about as much a niche with our current OL identity as Justin Forsett had with Tom Cable's downhill smash mouth rushing attack.


This is spot on. Moffit by his own self analysis is a technician , not a brawler. The interviews with Cable has made it clear he like s to wear and beat down opponents.

Moffitt I think is the square peg in a round hole. His game does not fit. He is more a Holmgren type lineman would have found him a better fit I suspect


if this is true then why did WE draft him?
 

Scottemojo

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Tech Worlds":3e3bzbtt said:
Happypuppy":3e3bzbtt said:
kearly":3e3bzbtt said:
He is out of place on our line. He has about as much a niche with our current OL identity as Justin Forsett had with Tom Cable's downhill smash mouth rushing attack.


This is spot on. Moffit by his own self analysis is a technician , not a brawler. The interviews with Cable has made it clear he like s to wear and beat down opponents.

Moffitt I think is the square peg in a round hole. His game does not fit. He is more a Holmgren type lineman would have found him a better fit I suspect


if this is true then why did WE draft him?

My recollection is that Cable targeted both him and Carpenter specifically because they were maulers.
 

Blitzer88

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I don't think he ends up making the team, which would sting because I love seeing him on the RRR. But also, I could see us trading him to a o-lineman needy team like the Cowboys if it comes to that.
 

Happypuppy

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Scottemojo":176om6gf said:
Tech Worlds":176om6gf said:
if this is true then why did WE draft him?

My recollection is that Cable targeted both him and Carpenter specifically because they were maulers.

Yesterday on the Brock and Danny show he defined his ability. My impression was he views himself more of a finesse player



"When asked to compare their skill sets, Moffitt said he's more advanced in terms of technique but conceded that Sweezy has the advantage athletically."
http://mynorthwest.com/422/2334667/A-fe ... hn-Moffitt
 

kearly

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I never scouted Moffitt in that draft. I remember Snohomie being strongly anti-Moffitt, so maybe he could chime in. All I remember was that the consensus opinion on Moffitt was that he was a "meh" prospect athletically but a very good technician who came from an OL factory (Wisconsin).

As far as why Seattle drafted Moffitt, the answer is simple, he was the best lineman available after our first pick. The board fell very poorly for Seattle early on in 2011. The two guys they wanted at #25 the most (Nate Solder and the Canadian guard) didn't make it to us in round one, then in round two the notable options (Rodney Hudson, etc) all left the board right before our team picked. Seattle traded down because there was basically nothing there, then took Moffitt in the mid-3rd because he was the best remaining option of a completely depleted draft class. Moffitt was the best lineman available at our 2nd round pick too, but taking him there wouldn't have been a great value and you might recall that JS was not-so-subtle in his desire to trade down weeks before that draft.

2011 was not at all a deep draft btw, the fact that we pulled a Richard Sherman or even a KJ Wright out of day three from that draft is amazing. We also had Doug Baldwin/Jeron Johnson in UDFA that year. Crazy.

The guy we got in that Moffitt trade down was Kris Durham btw. That was also the year we were missing a 3rd rounder thanks to Whitehurst. Days 1 and 2 of the 2011 draft were not kind to us.
 

Tech Worlds

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Scottemojo":2jauph20 said:
Tech Worlds":2jauph20 said:
Happypuppy":2jauph20 said:
kearly said:
He is out of place on our line. He has about as much a niche with our current OL identity as Justin Forsett had with Tom Cable's downhill smash mouth rushing attack.


This is spot on. Moffit by his own self analysis is a technician , not a brawler. The interviews with Cable has made it clear he like s to wear and beat down opponents.

Moffitt I think is the square peg in a round hole. His game does not fit. He is more a Holmgren type lineman would have found him a better fit I suspect


if this is true then why did WE draft him?

My recollection is that Cable targeted both him and Carpenter specifically because they were maulers.

So Cable is to blame? Perhaps they misjudged Moffitt or maybe his mauling didn't translate to the NFL?
 

The Dirty Truth

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We all seem to forget that Sweezy has played O-Line in only 13 or so games in his ENTIRE life and the fact that he is doing it at the highest level speaks volumes. Of course he is going to miss some blocks and be confused by looks sometimes but he will only get better. Moffit is tapped out in my opinion. He will never get any better than what you see right now. And thats ok. He is a decent O-Lineman but the ceiling on Sweezy is much higher that what Moffit can offer. Some of you guys act like Sweezy should be an All Pro and seem to forget that he is doing something that very few players could do by switching positions like he has. This isnt like a TE to Fullback conversion or LB to Safety. I just think we all need to remember how raw he is and think about how much better he is going to be in the next few years. In a perfect world Sweezy wouldnt have been thrown into the fire as fast as he was but it happened and in the long run will be a good thing. We just need to all be patient with his growing pains and appreciate what he could bring to our OL in the next few years. Thats just my 2 cents.
 

HawkAroundTheClock

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Nobody is forgetting that. It has been mentioned a few times in this thread that he is a position-change project. The question right now is, who is more trustworthy to start week 1? A lot can happen between now and then, but right now I trust Moffitt more. If RW takes a hit, or worse gets hurt, because our high-ceiling guy still doesn't know where he's supposed to be or he doesn't have his technique down, then all his athleticism won't be worth spit.
 

McGruff

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Moffitt reminds me of Chris Gray and Robbie Tobeck. Good player and every team needs those. As a starter he's the weak link, but if John Moffitt is your weak link, you have a pretty damn good line.
 
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