Newbie/ Did we forget all about the O line?

[mikeak]

There are holes in the line (4th and 1 anybody.....). With that said not every single partnofnyour team can be equally strong. With RW, Lynch and Percy on the offensive side we should be able to take some pressure off the line. RW will burn a LOT of blitzes this year. Expect much calmer play with better results and suddenly that pressure comes down a notch...

 

[drdiags]

I personally have no doubts about Carpenter. I think he will make a recovery from his surgery 2 yrs ago. Last year he tried his best but the knee just wasn't right. I think if he does as well as I think he will, that left side is in good hands for awhile (counting no more major injuries to the two over there). I would like to see Sweezy become our version of Diehlman, except not the crying about the rain part Sunshine boy pulled on the team back in the day.

 

[scutterhawk]

I see Carpenter as basically a 1st round guard coming in. He was drafted to play guard and be an elite mauler. I have NO doubts about Carp after the commitment he showed gerting on the field last year. Dude wants to play.

Carp doesn't get enough credit for the grit he showed last year.

Russell "KONG" Okung said that Carp is a beast, and that nobody can beat him playing one on one, and even when he was double teamed, he's still the boss.
I just want to see him stay 100% healthy, so's he can build some continuity with the rest of the gang.

 

[Throwdown]

I loved the way Carp was going until the injury, his presence seemed to settle Okung down who was having issues with false starts and such. Though it probably had to do with a rookie QB being there most likely.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Seahawks have a solid to very good, and still improving 6 man group of Okung, McQuistan, Unger, Sweezy, Giacomini, and Carpenter.

However, after that it gets a bit hazy but Moffitt and Jeanpierre are talented in their own ways and both have starting experience.

I wouldn't say the Seahawks haven't added anybody to the competition they did draft 3 players... Ryan Seymour, Jared Smith, and Michael Bowie. 7th round selections but that goes without saying the potential of those players under Tom Cable: Smith could become Sweezy 2.0, Seymour has as good of a chance as anybody to win the starting RG spot, and the 21 year old Bowie with exemplary hard work and the greatest of determination could become the best lineman we have in 5 years (yes, even over guys like Okung and Unger, not saying its going to happen but the kid just dominants on the field, and he's only discovering the tip of his iceberg that is his potential. But again one has to put in the work towards greatness, its not just handed to you on a silver platter).

Then the Seahawks also added the highly regarded Alvin Bailey who many pegged as a mid-round selection plus versatile Jordan Roussos through the undrafted ranks. Not to mention holdovers Mike Person and Rishaw Johnson, two developmental players the Seahawks seem keen on.

Seahawks have their linemen, Cable said so himself, they just need to stay healthy, and build into a big, cohesive little family of necessary chemistry.

A team can have 5 guys with the best, most elite of measures at each position but if they don't know how to work together and communicate effectively, they still could be one of the worst O-lines in the League.

From what I take and understand the Seahawks care more now about being simpatico than simply acquiring elite talent.

 

[Rainger]

Why is nobody worried about the O line? Last year's was average at best. No major drafts or free agent signings.
Half the reason RW scrambled so much was pressure. Without Beastmode and RW's legs we'd be pretty sad puppies.
With a good O line you can run anytime, and the play action works that much better.
Does anyone else share my concern?

TWO WORDS as to why I am not worried. "Tom Cable"

 

[camdawg]

Why is nobody worried about the O line? Last year's was average at best. No major drafts or free agent signings.
Half the reason RW scrambled so much was pressure. Without Beastmode and RW's legs we'd be pretty sad puppies.
With a good O line you can run anytime, and the play action works that much better.
Does anyone else share my concern?

Can I ask....are you a younger fan? Our line is not the 2005 line with Jones and Hutchinson, if that's your standard. But if you've been watching Seahawks football long enough, you've seen guys like Joe Tofflemire, Andy Heck, Ray Roberts, etc. Compared to some bad Seahawks offensive lines of the past, this one is actually pretty good, with two Pro Bowlers in Okung and Unger.

I'd say we're average at worst, very good at best.

 

[bestfightstory]

Max Unger was First Team All Pro last year, identifying him as the BEST center in the NFL. Russel Okung was a Pro-Bowler.

If our line is anything less than good to very good, then the other three players must be garbage.

 

[PlinytheCenter]

I see Carpenter as basically a 1st round guard coming in. He was drafted to play guard and be an elite mauler. I have NO doubts about Carp after the commitment he showed gerting on the field last year. Dude wants to play.

Carp doesn't get enough credit for the grit he showed last year.

I hope you're right. I still haven't seen enough from this guy. I trust this will be his breakout season.

 

[kearly]

Okung: Pro-Bowl left tackle
McQuistan: Serviceable starter at left guard.
Max Unger: A reasonable case could be made that he's the best center in the NFL right now.
Sweezy: Has elite movement skills and is improving rapidly. His 1st season was vastly superior to Unger's, and Unger had a ton of college experience compared to none for Sweezy.
Giacomini: Highly erratic and penalty prone, but was less of both in the final weeks. Terrific run blocker.

Carpenter: Big and nonathletic. Very powerful. Hasn't yet been 100%. He fits the same kind of mold as guys in SF such as Mike Iupati and Anthony Davis. If he ever regains his college athleticism he'll be a very good LG.
Moffitt: Extremely average overall and more of a technician than a mauler. I don't know if another Seahawk sprung more key blocks for Lynch TDs last year. He makes big blocks when it counts.
JeanPierre: Everything you could reasonably ask for from a cheap backup center. Good enough to start for probably half the league.
Johnson: Looked good in the preseason as a run blocker. 3rd round prospect talk seems legit. Made the roster late in the year.

Overall: Football outsiders likes our line more than SF's. PFF doesn't go that far, but PFF's rankings are a bit wacky (they rank our pass pro above our run blocking, both of which scored above average). My take is that Seattle has an elite run blocking line with mediocre pass protection, but it's also a very young line with excellent depth and a ton of room for further growth. All the people calling for guards this offseason are insane. I'm very high on Sweezy's potential plus trajectory and Carpenter has pro-bowl potential if he ever seizes it. Moffitt is not the disaster people think he is. Johnson and Pierre are very good for backups. If McQuistan ends up benched for Carpenter he'll be one of the better bench lineman in the league.

Truly, I feel we have an enviable situation at O-line. And pretty much all of that is thanks to Tom Cable. I very much doubt there is a better O-line coach currently active in the NFL. When I did my preseason tape breakdowns last year I actually thought that O-line was maybe the biggest strength on the entire team (Giacomini had a monster pre-season). Giacomini and McQuistan fell back to Earth when the real games began, but penalties aside, I think we have a strong group and the penalties went down substantially in the final six or seven weeks.

 

[Leee-roy]

No, I've been following the hawks since the 70's. I just remember last year a bunch of 4th and a foot and getting stuffed.
Seems like we just didn't have the raw muscle.

 

[Largent80]

NOT liking the depth.

2 late round draft picks do not shore that up. Pray for Carpenter to stay healthy for the year.

 

[seahawksTopGear]

>Truly, I feel we have an enviable situation at O-line.

I hate to throw a wrench into an otherwise amazing break down by Kearly, unfortunately, there is one.

James, Max and Okung are all set (allthough more than 11M for Okung on 2014 is going to be hard to swallow) after that things are nowhere near as clear.

>If McQuistan ends up benched for Carpenter he'll be one of the better bench lineman in the league.
he is due more than 3M and is UFA next year. That makes him almost the 10th highest payed guard in the league. That is a terrible contract for a backup.

>Giacomini: Highly erratic and penalty prone, but was less of both in the final weeks. Terrific run blocker.
4.2M this year and UFA next year. The time to have a viable Tackle backup is now and I am not sure we do. If he plays this season like he did in the first half of last year we are overpaying him. If he plays like he did on the second half we can't afford him next year.

That said I am not worried about the line this year, it is going to rock! People forget that RW was the QB with the slowest release times last year.

The longer the QB holds on to the ball the worse the line's pass protection will look, my guess is that this year we are not going to see RW anywhere near the bottom of the QB release time rankings.

 

[mikeak]

No, I've been following the hawks since the 70's. I just remember last year a bunch of 4th and a foot and getting stuffed.
Seems like we just didn't have the raw muscle.

Not like that cost us the season!!! Oh wait....

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

>Truly, I feel we have an enviable situation at O-line.

I hate to throw a wrench into an otherwise amazing break down by Kearly, unfortunately, there is one.

James, Max and Okung are all set (allthough more than 11M for Okung on 2014 is going to be hard to swallow) after that things are nowhere near as clear.

>If McQuistan ends up benched for Carpenter he'll be one of the better bench lineman in the league.
he is due more than 3M and is UFA next year. That makes him almost the 10th highest payed guard in the league. That is a terrible contract for a backup.

>Giacomini: Highly erratic and penalty prone, but was less of both in the final weeks. Terrific run blocker.
4.2M this year and UFA next year. The time to have a viable Tackle backup is now and I am not sure we do. If he plays this season like he did in the first half of last year we are overpaying him. If he plays like he did on the second half we can't afford him next year.

That said I am not worried about the line this year, it is going to rock! People forget that RW was the QB with the slowest release times last year.

The longer the QB holds on to the ball the worse the line's pass protection will look, my guess is that this year we are not going to see RW anywhere near the bottom of the QB release time rankings.

For starters, perhaps, you should let the future Seahawks worry about the state of the line beyond this season.

McQuistan will make 3 mil, who cares if he makes that much anyhow, right now he is a starter, 2012 he was a starter, 2011 he was a starter, did we not care before that he was a solid starter for only backup money. If he is a backup, Seahawks will rotate McQuistan in a lot, he'll see a lot of snaps, and the fact that he is a quality player at every position other than center has enough value. If we lost Okung, again, everyone would be glad McQuistan was here. Also, you can't forget that while much of the credit goes to Tom Cable, the Seahawks O-line probably wouldn't be half as good as it now in such a short time without the presence of Mcquistan being the "glue" as Cable often refers, as well as, McQuistan allowing the team to save money by making Gallery expendable.

So while people are harping over McQuistan's 3 mill... could people at least be more appreciative to the facts that McQuistan has been a tremendous asset to this team and his value is worth more than just his product on the field. Which has been reasonably consistent.

Giacomini as you said 4.25 mil, and JeanPierre also signed a tender so he makes I'll say about 1.25 mil to 2.0 mil. That's a total of 8-9 mil to players who will be UDFAs next season.

If the Seahawks like Giacomini enough I'm sure they can afford a 5-6 mill per year deal for him.

If Giacomini goes for more, they most likely can keep McQuistan on a Tom Cable discount of 3-4 mill per year deal, especially with McQuistan entering his twilight phase of his career.

 

[WestcoastSteve]

Why is nobody worried about the O line? Last year's was average at best. No major drafts or free agent signings.
Half the reason RW scrambled so much was pressure. Without Beastmode and RW's legs we'd be pretty sad puppies.
With a good O line you can run anytime, and the play action works that much better.
Does anyone else share my concern?

I think a healthy Carpenter could be the missing piece. To call the OL average at best is not accurate. Two pro bowlers, I also read on Mike Sando's blog that the Seahawks faced more 8 man boxes than any other team in the NFL.

The pass protection can be better, but most of the pressure came from NFC west defenses. All with stacked front 7's.

Concerns about tackle depth are legit, guards I'd say we have 4 guys I'd be fine with starting.

 

[RichNhansom]

Alot of good information in this thread but I have a feeling Harvin will have a good influence on the O-line production. One of the area's that Wilson needs to improve on is the slot and getting the ball out quicker. With the combination of experience and Harvin I suspect we will see a vast improvement in both of those area's and with it a jump in O-line production. Harvin will also make it much more difficult for DC's to stack the box.

Part of the difference in O-line production from the beginning of the year to the end was how much better Wilson trusted the pocket. Early in the year the lineman didn't know where Wilson was and that made protecting him a major challenge. As the year went on Wilson improved in the pocket and the line improved with him. Next year could see some very significant improvement again especially if we have better health.

 

[Anonymous]

R & H, explain to me how Harvin makes the o-line production better...

Are you suggesting that he is so fast he'll get out of the backfield quicker giving the lineman's contact-time a break as the D turns to pursue? Balderdash! Are you suggesting that perhaps just having such a stellar talent on the field with them means it will swoon the lineman into thinking they should play better? Hmmmm...?

To the OP: Dude, relax, the O-line we have is not only adequate, they are above average in many respects. I'm not counting on Carpenter to get any better and he had glass lower legs, IMHO. With basically the same group coming in from last year along with a couple of rooks to stir the pot, we'll be just fine. Great stab at a first post, and welcome to the fray. B-)

I believe that the RW stats on release-time are heavily skewed due to his attempts (and successes) at slipping around pursuit. Since most other QB's just fall on the ball instead of trying to get away like Russ does, O-lineman have to improvise as he runs around in the backfield. Looking at the way guys handled that task last year, I say we're good. Especially since they had to pass block, then run block, then pass block again, all during the same play.

 

[RichNhansom]

R & H, explain to me how Harvin makes the o-line production better...

Are you suggesting that he is so fast he'll get out of the backfield quicker giving the lineman's contact-time a break as the D turns to pursue? Balderdash! Are you suggesting that perhaps just having such a stellar talent on the field with them means it will swoon the lineman into thinking they should play better? Hmmmm...?

With a player of Harvin's caliber in the slot I believe we will see much more use of the position. The advantage of that is getting the ball out quicker. Look at guys like Manning and how they improve O-line play in large part to getting the ball out quickly. A better receiving core in general helps with this but so does chemistry and experience.

I also think with Harvin on the field, defenses will be forced to account for him making it more difficult to stack the box. Both of these things will help to improve line play.

I believe that the RW stats on release-time are heavily skewed due to his attempts (and successes) at slipping around pursuit. Since most other QB's just fall on the ball instead of trying to get away like Russ does, O-lineman have to improvise as he runs around in the backfield. Looking at the way guys handled that task last year, I say we're good. Especially since they had to pass block, then run block, then pass block again, all during the same play.

I agree with you on this but Wilson also improved at utilizing the pocket as the year went on which led to less 20+ yard losses on sacks and aided the O-lineman in protecting him as they had a better idea of where he was.

 

[seahawksTopGear]

Pandion,
you are entirely correct, Tom Cable worries about the line next year so I don't have to, and I agree that McQ has been much underapreciated as the glue holding this line together the last few years.

Houston,
I will be happy to explain how Harvin and a better connection between RW and his receivers will make the line better. It all boils down to the To Throw number
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... -to-throw/

To Throw: RW averages 3.14 seconds to get rid of the ball. This makes RW the slowest QB in the NFL in 2012. A lot of this has to do with the read option plays, but some of it was that he just could not find open receivers and had to scramble.

if Percy is open in the slot when RW hits his third step he can get rid of the ball in a time closer to Tom Brady's 2.5 seconds and the offensive line will look a lot better in terms of pass protection.

In fact if you look at those numbers the OL pass protection is already pretty good, RW was just hanging on to the ball too long for the statistics to show it.