Mike Vrabel

[keasley45]

This is going to sound rude but I really don't mean it that way but I'm somewhat baffled you think he's not leaning offense when he mentioned OC's if they'r e good being picked off, the development of Quarterbacks etc if he's leaning defense.

You play in a division with two of the brightest offensive minds in football in a league that continues to handcuff the defense with rule changes. You have to find a way to outcoach and keep up with those guys.

Again I could be wrong, who knows. Either way I feel confident he will get a good candidate and I'm excited about it. I am intrigued by Macdonald if he does go the defensive route.

And... he was also quoted during the season in an interview saying the league is beginning to shift again to a more aggressive style of play and mentioned the physicality of the 9ers defense and the importance of a dominating ground game.

To me, when you take that comment (and it was 100% in the context of the shift to what's next on the NFL horizon in terms of trends) along with his insistence that the reason we failed in years past was because we didn't have enough aggressive, alpha type, 'swag' type guys like we did in the LOB days... I mean in my opinion, he's broadcasting pretty clearly that he sees the future as being won by physical teams that impose their will, and the path forward in drafting being about getting guys that intimidate and play with swagger... that doesn't sound like an offensive hire to me at all.

And... he was ok letting Bobby go. I'd wager that was two parts - 1 age, and 2... for all Bobby's strengths, being the emotional lead dog on defense was not one. Not in the LOB days and certainly not since. A leader, Absolutley. But Bobby is the Buddhist monk that will kill you silently, vs a vigilante with a baseball bat and a chip on his shoulder. I think John wants the bad boy.

Add to that, that the majority of the candidates he's slated to interview are defensive minds...

No offense taken btw, but based on what he's said even before Pete walked, i think he wants to buikd a brute.

If it were orherwise, i think you would have heard a lot of talk from him... ever... about buildng a highpowered offense. When hes mentioned offense, its been about physicality.

As to being in a division with the 9ers and Rams, i think you could see that as a matter of getting a guy that can outscheme and outscore two of the best in the game ... playing their game, ... or whether you punch them in the mouth and beat them your way. I dont think JS is interested in being the 3rd best version of the McVay offense in the NFC West. I think what he wants ls to be the best offense in the NFC west built the Schneider way, with a punishing defense to go along with it - getting ahead of the curve.

 

[hoxrox]

It'll be interesting to see if John ultimately hires an offensive or defensive coach.

Currently there are more defensive coaches on the interview request list. And the offensive coaches on the list are in high demand, so it's slim pickings.

 

[knownone]

But that's exactly what I mean. He wants to structure his staff with the best chance for continuity and losing your OC every year is super hard. I doubt Huston is thrilled to lose their OC with Stroud, who is their franchise in year two. It's just much easier to move on from a DC than it is an OC which is why I thin he will ideally lean that way.

I don't think many teams are losing their OCs every year, so that's building around an improbable outcome. In any case, there are other ways to maintain continuity. Right? You could hire an older, established OC unlikely to garner HCing interest. Or, the GM/HC could establish an identity and develop their staff to make losing the OC less impactful on the offense, which is pretty much what Pete, Harbaugh, etc, do.

What's most important is finding the right head coach. Which side of the ball they coach seems irrelevant to me.

 

[hoxrox]

What's most important is finding the right head coach. Which side of the ball they coach seems irrelevant to me.

It depends on what John feels about Geno and his long-term viability.

If he's going after one of the top QBs in this class, think it's important that they go with an offensive minded coach, so the rookie QB can have proper development.

Otherwise, settle for an above average QB, run the ball and be dominate on defense.

What will be the path forward?

 

[Ozzy]

I don't think many teams are losing their OCs every year, so that's building around an improbable outcome. In any case, there are other ways to maintain continuity. Right? You could hire an older, established OC unlikely to garner HCing interest. Or, the GM/HC could establish an identity and develop their staff to make losing the OC less impactful on the offense, which is pretty much what Pete, Harbaugh, etc, do.

What's most important is finding the right head coach. Which side of the ball they coach seems irrelevant to me.

The lingest tenured OC is 5 years. I just think John probably wants to match the offensive minds in the division and has hinted as much, I could be wrong. Like someone earlier said though there are only a couple of guys everyone seems to want so he may pivot to a guy like Vrabel who I’m warming up to.

On the losing an OC front I think it’s because John wants a young QB who can grow with a coach. It’s very impactful as he mentioned with YOUNG QBs. Maybe he has a plan for a rookie early this year?

 

[Hawkinaz]

Peter King wrote in his Monday Morning Football in America segment that he thinks Vrabel is a good fit in Seattle. I disagree. He may be a good fit in that he brings name recognition, but not necessarily a good organizational fit with Seattle.

Pass.

Would rather see an offensive minded coach, one who has experimented with innovative concepts at the college level.

With Vrable he will bring toughness that had been lacking but I would expect Arthur Smith to be the OC unless John says no

 

[Hawkinaz]

It depends on what John feels about Geno and his long-term viability.

If he's going after one of the top QBs in this class, think it's important that they go with an offensive minded coach, so the rookie QB can have proper development.

Otherwise, settle for an above average QB, run the ball and be dominate on defense.

What will be the path forward?

In the presser John wasn’t very positive about Geno sounded like Geno is a good for now option

 

[OrangeGravy]

And... he was also quoted during the season in an interview saying the league is beginning to shift again to a more aggressive style of play and mentioned the physicality of the 9ers defense and the importance of a dominating ground game.

To me, when you take that comment (and it was 100% in the context of the shift to what's next on the NFL horizon in terms of trends) along with his insistence that the reason we failed in years past was because we didn't have enough aggressive, alpha type, 'swag' type guys like we did in the LOB days... I mean in my opinion, he's broadcasting pretty clearly that he sees the future as being won by physical teams that impose their will, and the path forward in drafting being about getting guys that intimidate and play with swagger... that doesn't sound like an offensive hire to me at all.

And... he was ok letting Bobby go. I'd wager that was two parts - 1 age, and 2... for all Bobby's strengths, being the emotional lead dog on defense was not one. Not in the LOB days and certainly not since. A leader, Absolutley. But Bobby is the Buddhist monk that will kill you silently, vs a vigilante with a baseball bat and a chip on his shoulder. I think John wants the bad boy.

Add to that, that the majority of the candidates he's slated to interview are defensive minds...

No offense taken btw, but based on what he's said even before Pete walked, i think he wants to buikd a brute.

If it were orherwise, i think you would have heard a lot of talk from him... ever... about buildng a highpowered offense. When hes mentioned offense, its been about physicality.

As to being in a division with the 9ers and Rams, i think you could see that as a matter of getting a guy that can outscheme and outscore two of the best in the game ... playing their game, ... or whether you punch them in the mouth and beat them your way. I dont think JS is interested in being the 3rd best version of the McVay offense in the NFC West. I think what he wants ls to be the best offense in the NFC west built the Schneider way, with a punishing defense to go along with it - getting ahead of the curve.

I have no idea what JS prefers, but I think people hoping we chase the "McVay/Shanahan" trend are being short sighted. If something is seen as clearly a trend by everyone, you're already too late. You need to correctly forecast the next trend or counter move that ends the current trend if you want to win. If you try to be the next McVay, by the time you figure it out, someone else will have solved the McVay riddle

 

[SeaWolv]

But that's exactly what I mean. He wants to structure his staff with the best chance for continuity and losing your OC every year is super hard. I doubt Huston is thrilled to lose their OC with Stroud, who is their franchise in year two. It's just much easier to move on from a DC than it is an OC which is why I thin he will ideally lean that way.

As I said before, I agree with you. I think it meant something when he dove more into that aspect of this decision to the point he was bringing up specific examples that he didn't do when he was talking about a coach with ST experience or a coach with DC experience.

 

[Maelstrom787]

This is going to sound rude but I really don't mean it that way but I'm somewhat baffled you think he's not leaning offense when he mentioned OC's if they'r e good being picked off, the development of Quarterbacks etc if he's leaning defense.

You play in a division with two of the brightest offensive minds in football in a league that continues to handcuff the defense with rule changes. You have to find a way to outcoach and keep up with those guys.

Again I could be wrong, who knows. Either way I feel confident he will get a good candidate and I'm excited about it. I am intrigued by Macdonald if he does go the defensive route.

This is really a much, much more balanced answer to the question than has been claimed here. I don't see where we're getting the impression that it'd be shocking for him to hire ANY coach based on this answer.

If anything, it seems more like he wants a head coach that'll maximize and develop his assistants regardless of what side of the ball we're talking about.

 

[keasley45]

I have no idea what JS prefers, but I think people hoping we chase the "McVay/Shanahan" trend are being short sighted. If something is seen as clearly a trend by everyone, you're already too late. You need to correctly forecast the next trend or counter move that ends the current trend if you want to win. If you try to be the next McVay, by the time you figure it out, someone else will have solved the McVay riddle

Agree 100

 

[HawkRiderFan]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2024/01/10/inside-titans-decision-mike-vrabel-firing-notes-amy-adams

It does explain why he got fired, but the comment about Vrabel wanting a strong say in personal is what I was getting at on whether he wants to work in Seattle where John will have control

 

[keasley45]

View attachment 63637

This is really a much, much more balanced answer to the question than has been claimed here. I don't see where we're getting the impression that it'd be shocking for him to hire ANY coach based on this answer.

If anything, it seems more like he wants a head coach that'll maximize and develop his assistants regardless of what side of the ball we're talking about.

Excellent post

 

[Scout]

Vrabel has picked out some outstanding OCs so if he is hired he has an eye for talent.

 

[Ozzy]

View attachment 63637

This is really a much, much more balanced answer to the question than has been claimed here. I don't see where we're getting the impression that it'd be shocking for him to hire ANY coach based on this answer.

If anything, it seems more like he wants a head coach that'll maximize and develop his assistants regardless of what side of the ball we're talking about.

We’ve already established he hit on all of it. Not a single person is saying otherwise. It’s just reading his body language during the actual press conference. To me, and it’s ok if you disagree, it seemed pretty obvious that he if forced would say his preference would be to lock up an offensive mind like Kyle S because it’s easier to replace a DC than it is a great offensive coordinator. Shanahan, McVay, Johnson guys like that are a huge advantage.

I also already said it may not play out this way because there are a ton of openings but not many of those offensive geniuses out there. My guess is he shoots for one and if not he will obviously go another direction.

I think it’s a reasonable assumption to assume he might value the approach that helps the most critical and important part of your team, the quarterback, to succeed with the best path possible….and offensive mind that can be tied to him for years. Stroud in a critical year two is going to be on his second OC in his first two years. When you invest a massive amount of money into that position it’s not ideal. This just isn’t the same for DC’s for obvious reasons. I’m confused why this is so hard to believe for you two?

Again you and Keasley saw it differently and don’t think he values an offensive guy more than a defensive guy or a special teams guy and that’s fine too. We’re all free to agree to disagree and enjoy the process. Hell he could hire a special teams coach like Harbaugh and he’s the next superstar coach.

 

[Maelstrom787]

We’ve already established he hit on all of it. Not a single person is saying otherwise. It’s just reading his body language during the actual press conference. To me, and it’s ok if you disagree, it seemed pretty obvious that he if forced would say his preference would be to lock up an offensive mind like Kyle S because it’s easier to replace a DC than it is a great offensive coordinator. Shanahan, McVay, Johnson guys like that are a huge advantage.

I also already said it may not play out this way because there are a ton of openings but not many of those offensive geniuses out there. My guess is he shoots for one and if not he will obviously go another direction.

I think it’s a reasonable assumption to assume he might value the approach that helps the most critical and important part of your team, the quarterback, to succeed with the best path possible….and offensive mind that can be tied to him for years. Stroud in a critical year two is going to be on his second OC in his first two years. When you invest a massive amount of money into that position it’s not ideal. This just isn’t the same for DC’s for obvious reasons. I’m confused why this is so hard to believe for you two?

Again you and Keasley saw it differently and don’t think he values an offensive guy more than a defensive guy or a special teams guy and that’s fine too. We’re all free to agree to disagree and enjoy the process. Hell he could hire a special teams coach like Harbaugh and he’s the next superstar coach.

This (the red part) is kind of a misrepresentation on what's being said. I'm just saying that it isn't baffling. He's likely to go with whoever he thinks is the best culture fit and the best developer of subordinate staff, if I'm really reading between the lines. Either way, if you hit on stud assistants, they're getting hired away. Best way to mitigate the effect is what John talked about at the end of that quote - get a guy who is an adept developer so that coordinators getting hired away doesn't kill you as badly.

He might lean offense given what we know, but it isn't baffling to me to think he's not primarily determining hires based the side of the ball they've got background in over the intangible nature of elevating the rest of the staff. If he finds a guy who he thinks brings out the best in his underlings, he'll go with that guy regardless almost assuredly.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I just want them to get a good coach, seems like people are obsessed with the Offensive vs. Defensive Coach thing.

 

[LastRideOut]

I just want them to get a good coach, seems like people are obsessed with the Offensive vs. Defensive Coach thing.

JS said as much. He wants someone who understands the structure of the organization and how to manage all aspects of it, something PC was good at, but his coaching got stale.

It sounds to me that JS wants someone with PC's smarts when it comes to management style, but a little sharper when it comes to coaching players.

 

[Ozzy]

Maelstrom, I'll just agree to disagree. Watching the press conference live it seems obvious to me that he leans offense because of how important the QB position is and why you need to have a structure in place to protect that. You're investing so much money into the position that losing OC after OC is a nightmare that Houston is experiencing right now if Slowick leaves. I guarantee they hate switching OC's in Strouds second year. But again, I could be wrong?

Vrabel seems to be picking up steam. Interesting choice if they do go that route. I'm not sure what to think. For some reason I like him better than Quinn though.

 

[gmor]

Wherever Vrabel goes, does he bring Arthur Smith with him to run the offense?

Vrabel with Arthur Smith would be a good combination for the Seahawks.