Mariners Offseason Thread 2014-2015

[HawkFan72]

Bummed they couldn't find a way to work things out with Saunders. Supposedly he didn't like some of the things that Z said about him to the media after the season and the M's felt they needed to trade him.

But it sucks because he would have been an amazing 4th OF this year. Actually, he would have been a great RF option if they don't get anyone else.

Happ has shown some good potential, but when he struggles he REALLY struggles.

 

[m0ng0]

Im a die hard Jays fan and I can tell you right now that like 98% of fan base on Forums/Blogs are extremely excited about this.

Happ should be good for the Mariners. He has a great fastball. Made some adjustments this year that seemed to help him become more consistent. Safeco will absolutely help him out. I think he could actually have a career year this year. He was my least favourite player on the team though. Just comes across as an unlikeable guy. We kind of bounced him back and forth from the pen and rotation and he made some comments about not being happy with it. Thats where most of it comes from.

For the Jays ... Saunders will definitely be the starting LF. Huge defensive upgrade for us over Melky. I think many Jays fans are going to be relieved that we didn't invest big money and long term to Melky. Moving to the Rogers Centre should improve Saunders number some as well. We actually save money in the deal and should still have quite a bit to play with the rest of the offseason which is exciting. We have some great young pitching that will all be fighting for Innings in the big leagues this year so Happ was just another arm that was making too much money at the back end of the rotation.

Fun trade for both teams. I think the Mariners definitely have another move coming for an impact outfielder.

I hope he stays healthy for you guys!

 

[Ziggyy108]

The best part about JA Happ is following the twitter account Hipster J.A Happ

 

[GCrow]

The trade Jays fans have been expecting forever, finally happened.

This is a pretty good move for the Jays, as we sold high on Happ, shed salary, and fills a position of need (with a Canadian!). Hopefully they plan on starting him in Left.

However, Happ did pitch great for us last year basically as our #5 starter. Should do very well in Safeco too. Goodbye to Melky Cabrera, however. Would have liked to seen the M's pick him up. I wonder why they went with Cruz over him? Offence?

 

[jkitsune]

Im a die hard Jays fan and I can tell you right now that like 98% of fan base on Forums/Blogs are extremely excited about this.

Happ should be good for the Mariners. He has a great fastball. Made some adjustments this year that seemed to help him become more consistent. Safeco will absolutely help him out. I think he could actually have a career year this year. He was my least favourite player on the team though. Just comes across as an unlikeable guy. We kind of bounced him back and forth from the pen and rotation and he made some comments about not being happy with it. Thats where most of it comes from.

For the Jays ... Saunders will definitely be the starting LF. Huge defensive upgrade for us over Melky. I think many Jays fans are going to be relieved that we didn't invest big money and long term to Melky. Moving to the Rogers Centre should improve Saunders number some as well. We actually save money in the deal and should still have quite a bit to play with the rest of the offseason which is exciting. We have some great young pitching that will all be fighting for Innings in the big leagues this year so Happ was just another arm that was making too much money at the back end of the rotation.

Fun trade for both teams. I think the Mariners definitely have another move coming for an impact outfielder.

Thanks for the input. I'm extremely disappointed, because I think Saunders has been severely undervalued, and essentially pushed out of town. While he never became the star he was projected to be, he was one of our best position players last year (when on the field), and certainly was a piece worth keeping around for a team that is starved for position players who can, you know, both field and hit.

Hard to judge a guy like Happ without having watched him, but the numbers certainly don't make this seem like an even swap.

 

[Blitzer88]

Saunders is projected to have a war of +2.5, Happ only +0.8..................................

 

[m0ng0]

Saunders is projected to have a war of +2.5, Happ only +0.8..................................

Haha, really? a career .231 hitter who can't stay healthy?

 

[HawkFan72]

Saunders is projected to have a war of +2.5, Happ only +0.8..................................

Haha, really? a career .231 hitter who can't stay healthy?

He was our best defensive outfielder. WAR accounts for that.

 

[m0ng0]

Saunders is projected to have a war of +2.5, Happ only +0.8..................................

Haha, really? a career .231 hitter who can't stay healthy?

He was our best defensive outfielder. WAR accounts for that.

I agree that was very helpful in the 78 games he played last year.

War, huh yeah
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing,

Sorry could not resist.....

 

[jkitsune]

Saunders is projected to have a war of +2.5, Happ only +0.8..................................

Haha, really? a career .231 hitter who can't stay healthy?

He was our best defensive outfielder. WAR accounts for that.

He also was a solid offensive threat last year.

Edit: I rarely like to quote USSMariner, because I often disagree with them, but I thought this summed it up nicely: "This one is beyond easy to analyze. It’s almost too easy. Which player is better? Statistically, it’s Michael Saunders. Which player is younger? Michael Saunders. Which player is cheaper? Michael Saunders. Which player is under control longer? Michael Saunders. Over the next two years, Saunders will cost roughly what Happ will cost for this upcoming one year. Saunders was born late in 1986, while Happ was born late in 1982. Happ does address a team need for better starting-rotation depth. That’s been a concern we’ve all had. Problem is, now the Mariners’ outfield is Dustin Ackley and Austin Jackson. As clear as it was that Saunders was on his way out, he wasn’t out until a little while ago, and he sure looked good where he was."

 

[Smelly McUgly]

Re: Cruz. I'm cool with 4/58 only because to get RH hitters up here, you pretty much should expect that we'll have to overpay. Safeco to RH hitters is like Coors to pitchers; there is a rep, whether totally valid or not. Besides, since we have had by far the least production out of the DH over the past five seasons (like maybe -10 wins? Something like that), I find the move acceptable.

Re: Saunders, this is more proof that JackZ is a fat idiot toad that gets the easy ones right like giving Cano lots of money, but messes up the small ones. Great, he just traded away a potential four win player at a position where we now have no one to play it for J.A. friggin' Happ. Now we need to get a RF, so it's Melky Cabrera or trading for CarGo, Kemp, or Upton.

With Saunders, we could have kept Paxton/Walker and just signed a guy to platoon in RF (Melky? Hell, even Ichiro has enough OBP and defense by the metrics to run him out there if Saunders is hurt). Now, we're almost surely giving up one of those guys for some RF, maybe one with only one year of control. If we trade Paxton, that would really be the worst.

 

[Uncle Si]

Trading Saunders makes absolute sense if you are signing Cabrera, Rios or Aoki. If the M's trade for outfield depth and use anyone other than Miller i'm going to be very disappointed.

We all liked Saunders, but the Ms did not. He couldnt stay healthy, and after the continual investment in Guti over the years I suppose I can see their willingness to move on. But man, they did so with authority (impunity and a bit of violence.. they really did not like Michael Saunders).

Like the Cruz move, this trade, in a bubble, isnt great. (WAR stat is hard with Saunders as he hasnt scratched 130 games more than 2 times in his career). We have filled a hole in the rotation (but not with Lester, which is truly "win now"), Happ is a very good back end of the rotation player. sucks its only one year though.

This could end up being a nice move IF a free agent comes in (is Rios or Aoki any worse than Saunders? Cabrera may make the team more than just a "contender"). Or will they trade a pitching prospect for Matt Kemp?

and does this mean the Ms arent interested in any free agent pitcher? which would suck.

so many good things and so many bad things can come from this. I know one thing, fans loved Saunders (maybe irrationally so), which is why this move isnt popular. I also imagine that trading him means something else is already near done

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

..........I also imagine that trading him means something else is already near done

Agree

 

[jkitsune]

Another problem with the move is that there were equivalent-level players available on the free agent market, which would've allowed us to fill our need without creating another one by trading Saunders. Now all I can think about is what we're going to lose Taijuan for.

 

[dumbrabbit]

NM

 

[Uncle Si]

Another problem with the move is that there were equivalent-level players available on the free agent market, which would've allowed us to fill our need without creating another one by trading Saunders. Now all I can think about is what we're going to lose Taijuan for.

would have to Upton or Kemp, which would just be stupid.

I agree that like for like moves couldve been found via free agency. While Happ is a genuine back end starter, others were available (and to contracts beyond a year). Same can be said for outfielders.

So the question at hand is what is Jack Z (and maybe even McClendon's) deal with Saunders?

 

[dumbrabbit]

Why are people criticizing this move? You have to count on players who can play 162 games a year. The M's can't really afford someone who only plays 80-120 games per season, and The Condor hasn't really played a full season yet. I'm fine with this trade. You can never have too much pitching.

I still think they are getting Melky. Or at least someone without trading their top pitching talent. I don't think Z would trade his prized pitching prospects, Paxton or Walker for a year's worth of control for Kemp or Upton.

 

[Uncle Si]

Why are people criticizing this move? You have to count on players who can play 162 games a year. The M's can't really afford someone who only plays 80-120 games per season. I'm fine with this trade. You can never have too much pitching.

i think a couple things bother people:

Saunders is very, very popular
Saunders is very above average (when healthy)
Saunders is very cheap
Plenty of pitching depth existed in the market just as good if not better than Happ
it seems to indicate one of our pitching prospects is soon to leave via trade

combine them all you have a dispirited fan base.

I dont mind the move if it comes on the cusp of something significant (not involving Walker or Paxton). I worry about the other things.

the head scratcher is given all of the depth available via free agency to fill both the pitching position and depth in the outfield, the trade seemed to be simply to get rid of Saunders. Why? is it really because he's hurt alot? does the FO think hes faking it? something strange there for me

 

[SeatownJay]

The FO was moving on from Saunders, guaranteed. There was no way he was going to be a Mariner come time for pitchers & catchers to report. They were able to flip him for a serviceable major league starter. I'm fine with this.

 

[Uncle Si]

The FO was moving on from Saunders, guaranteed. There was no way he was going to be a Mariner come time for pitchers & catchers to report. They were able to flip him for a serviceable major league starter. I'm fine with this.

understood (and I am hesitantly fine with it as well)...

but why were they so anxious to move on from Saunders? (easily one of the M's most popular players, along with Felix) was it just health? does anyone know of battles between him and McClendon?